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User talk:Peter Z./History Notes (view source)

Revision as of 06:21, 30 January 2011

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==If we put aside political correctness, concerning Korcula's history==
 
==If we put aside political correctness, concerning Korcula's history==
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'''''Firstly''''' it appears to me that the region (former Yugoslavia/West Balkans) has problems with interpreting multicultural and ''multiethnic'' history (& societies). If we put aside political correctness, one could ask the question what happened to the Latin families (& Illirian-Greek) <ref>'''Korcula''' the island became part of the Roman province of Dalmatia</ref> on the island of Korcula (Corcyra Nigra) in the 7th century when the Slavs invaded. The Slavic tribes invaded the ''Eastern Roman Empire'' (Byzantine) province of [[Directory:Fausto Veranzio#Dalmatian|Dalmatia]].
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'''''Firstly''''' it appears to me that the region (former Yugoslavia/West Balkans) has problems with interpreting multicultural and ''multiethnic'' history (& societies). If we put aside political correctness, one could ask the question what happened to the ''Latin - Illirian - Greek'' families  <ref>'''Korcula''' the island became part of the Roman province of Dalmatia</ref> on the island of Korcula (Corcyra Nigra) in the 7th century when the Slavs invaded. The Slavic tribes invaded [[Directory:Fausto Veranzio#Dalmatian|Dalmatia]] province of the ''Eastern Roman Empire'' (Byzantine) .
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The 19th century theories concerning the identity of these early Slavs is '''flawed'''.  
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The 19th century theories concerning the '''identity''' of these early Slavs is flawed.  
    
Latest scholarly & archaeological research:
 
Latest scholarly & archaeological research:
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* [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=B2LFRiT1nfYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Venice+and+the+Slavs&hl=en&ei=2r9ETfzgCoS0vwOShpndAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Venice and the Slavs:] The Discovery of Dalmatia in the Age of Enlightenment by Larry Wolff.
 
* [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=B2LFRiT1nfYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Venice+and+the+Slavs&hl=en&ei=2r9ETfzgCoS0vwOShpndAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Venice and the Slavs:] The Discovery of Dalmatia in the Age of Enlightenment by Larry Wolff.
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Latest scholarly & archaeological research states that the Slavs of Southern Dalmatian were identified as neither Croatians or Serbs. They were called Slavs (Dalmatian Slavs). Funny that considering what has happened historically to the region in the last 60 - 70 years. It actually makes perfect sense that the original Slav settles were identified and identified themselves as Slavs. Latter the Slavic peoples started to identify themselves and evolve into separate ethnic groups which is perfectly normal. It seems that in Dalmatia the Slavic identity lasted much longer.
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Latest scholarly & archaeological research states that the Slavs of Southern Dalmatian were identified as neither Croatians or Serbs. They were called Slavs (Dalmatian Slavs). Funny that considering what has happened historically to the region in the last 60 - 70 years. It actually makes perfect sense that the original Slav settlers were identified and identified themselves as Slavs. Later the Slavic peoples started to identify themselves into separate ethnic groups which is perfectly normal. It seems that in Dalmatia the Slavic identity lasted much longer.
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'''Historic quote''' taken from ''When Ethnicity Did not Matter in the Balkans'' by John Van Antwerp Fine:
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{{Cquote| ''"In 1262 the Venetians praised the Slavs and Latins on the island of Korcula for submitting to the prince of Venice"'' <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA103&dq=korcula+Venice++Slavs&hl=en&ei=oMBjTJPQBoicvgPkpPCeCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=korcula%20Venice%20%20Slavs&f=false When Ethnicity Did not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine. p103</ref>}}
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There is archaeological evidence from 16 century where the Croatian identity was used. Stone writings in Zavalatica are dedicated to events from 889 AD. It describes a clash between the Slavic population and the Venetian army. Marinko Gjivoje wrote about the find in 1972. The stone writings uses: ''Hrvat Dalmatinac'' in its writings.''Hrvat'' means Croatian in Slavic.<ref>[http://www.korcula.net/history/mmarelic/script.htm History-Korcula.net] Marko Marelic-S. Francisco-USA</ref>
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Historic quote taken from ''Researches on the Danube and the Adriatic'': By Andrew Archibald Paton. Chapter 4. The Dalmatian Archipelago.p164
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{{Cquote|These three pears you see on the wall," said he, "are the arms of my family. Perussich was the name, when, in the earlier part of the fifteenth century, my ancestors  built this palace; so that, you see, I am '''Dalmatian'''. All the family, fathers, sons, and brothers, used to serve in the fleets of the Republic (Republic of Venice); but the hero of our race was '''Arneri Perussich''', whose statue you see there, who fought, bled, and died at the ''Siege of Candia'', whose memory was honoured by the Republic, and whose surviving family was liberally pensioned; so his name of our race. We became Arneri, and ceased to be Perussich}}
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According to Marinko Gjivoje, Perussich is ''Piruzović''''.<ref>Otok Korčula (2nd edition) by [http://esperanto.net/literaturo/autor/gjivoje.html Marinko Gjivoje], Zagreb 1969.
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*The book outlines A-Z about the island of Korcula, from traditions, history, culture to wildlife, politics & geography. Page 46-47: ''Piruzović ''. </ref>
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There is archaeological events from 16 century where the Croatian identity was used. Stone writings in Zavalatica are dedicated to events from 889 AD. It describes a clash between the Slavic population and the Venetian army. Marinko Gjivoje wrote about the find in 1972. The stone writings uses: ''Hrvat Dalmatinac'' in its writings.''Hrvat'' means Croatian in Slavic.<ref>[http://www.korcula.net/history/mmarelic/script.htm History-Korcula.net] Marko Marelic-S. Francisco-USA</ref>
      
===Events===
 
===Events===
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Events could have unfolded (& most probably did) which led to them being attacked and killed. The survivors could have fled from Korcula to Ragusa (Dubrovnik), then a place of refuge. Maybe some survived and remained on the island. Latter Latin- Illirian-Greek citizens started to return to the island in larger numbers thus creating a historic multicultural and multiethnic society.
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Events could have unfolded (& most probably did) which led to them being attacked and killed. The survivors could have fled from Korcula to Ragusa (Dubrovnik), then a place of refuge. Maybe some survived and remained on the island. Later ''Latin - Illirian - Greek'' citizens started to return to the island in larger numbers thus creating a historic multicultural and multiethnic society.
    
Judging by what happened to the Roman cities of Dalmatia; ''Epidaurum'', ''Narona'' and ''Salona'' (which were then part of the Byzantine Empire), these towns were '''destroyed'''. The Avari participated in these events too. This pattern of aggression of the Slavic tribes in conquering new territory must have continued during the following decades (& centuries) of the dark ages (even more modern times). In this historic period it is recorded that many of the churches on the island of Korcula were destroyed (then rebuilt at a later stage). <ref>According to recent studies done at the University of Zadar,  Slavs on the island of Korcula accepted Christianity fully in the 14th and 15th Century.  Reference from: University of Zadar-Sociogeographic Transformation of the Western Part of Korcula Island by Lena Mirosevic-2008/page 161</ref>
 
Judging by what happened to the Roman cities of Dalmatia; ''Epidaurum'', ''Narona'' and ''Salona'' (which were then part of the Byzantine Empire), these towns were '''destroyed'''. The Avari participated in these events too. This pattern of aggression of the Slavic tribes in conquering new territory must have continued during the following decades (& centuries) of the dark ages (even more modern times). In this historic period it is recorded that many of the churches on the island of Korcula were destroyed (then rebuilt at a later stage). <ref>According to recent studies done at the University of Zadar,  Slavs on the island of Korcula accepted Christianity fully in the 14th and 15th Century.  Reference from: University of Zadar-Sociogeographic Transformation of the Western Part of Korcula Island by Lena Mirosevic-2008/page 161</ref>
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Dalmatians of Latin ancestry brought ''Mediterranean cultural'' to the Slavs. Christianity was one aspect of this. In essence Slavs on the island were '''Romanized'''.  
 
Dalmatians of Latin ancestry brought ''Mediterranean cultural'' to the Slavs. Christianity was one aspect of this. In essence Slavs on the island were '''Romanized'''.  
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In '''889 AD''' it is documented that there was a clash between the local  Slavs (from Cara) and the Venetian army. The story is part of the Island of Korcula's oral history.
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*Cara (or Čara) originally Slavic village.
 
*Cara (or Čara) originally Slavic village.
 
''Interesting'': Cara used to be called Hara. The [[Austria|Austria-Hungary]] census registered Cara's name as Kcara.  
 
''Interesting'': Cara used to be called Hara. The [[Austria|Austria-Hungary]] census registered Cara's name as Kcara.  
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The Statute of Korcula was first drafted in 1214. It was probably written by Latin & Slavic Nobility.
 
The Statute of Korcula was first drafted in 1214. It was probably written by Latin & Slavic Nobility.
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{{Cquote|'''Historic quote''': ''"In 1262 the Venetians praised the Slavs and Latins on the island of Korcula for submitting to the prince Venice"'' <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA103&dq=korcula+Venice++Slavs&hl=en&ei=oMBjTJPQBoicvgPkpPCeCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=korcula%20Venice%20%20Slavs&f=false When Ethnicity Did not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine. p103</ref>}}
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In 16 century Stone writings in Zavalatica are dedicated to events from 889 AD. It describes a clash between the Slavs and the Venetian army. Marinko Gjivoje wrote about the find in 1972. The stone writings states: ''Hrvat Dalmatinac'' in its writings.''Hrvat'' means Croatian in Slavic.<ref>[http://www.korcula.net/history/mmarelic/script.htm History-Korcula.net] Marko Marelic-S. Francisco-USA</ref>
      
Korcula's old name was Curzola. The Old-Slavic term was Krkar.
 
Korcula's old name was Curzola. The Old-Slavic term was Krkar.
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* Andrew Archibald Paton (1811-1874) was a British diplomat and writer from the 19 century.</ref>
 
* Andrew Archibald Paton (1811-1874) was a British diplomat and writer from the 19 century.</ref>
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{{Cquote|These three pears you see on the wall," said he, "are the arms of my family. Perussich was the name, when, in the earlier part of the fifteenth century, my ancestors  built this palace; so that, you see, I am '''Dalmatian'''. All the family, fathers, sons, and brothers, used to serve in the fleets of the Republic (Republic of Venice); but the hero of our race was '''Arneri Perussich''', whose statue you see there, who fought, bled, and died at the ''Siege of Candia'', whose memory was honoured by the Republic, and whose surviving family was liberally pensioned; so his name of our race. We became Arneri, and ceased to be Perussich}}
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According to Marinko Gjivoje, Perussich is ''Piruzović''''.<ref>Otok Korčula (2nd edition) by [http://esperanto.net/literaturo/autor/gjivoje.html Marinko Gjivoje], Zagreb 1969.
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*The book outlines A-Z about the island of Korcula, from traditions, history, culture to wildlife, politics & geography. Page 46-47: ''Piruzović ''. </ref>
      
==  Naši - The ''Us'' (ours) People ==
 
==  Naši - The ''Us'' (ours) People ==
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''Republic of Ragusa'' was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik)  was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from  Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358.
 
''Republic of Ragusa'' was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik)  was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from  Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358.
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The Croatians (Slavs), some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population.The Croatians from the 11th century onwards were mainly called '''Dalmatians Slavs'''.<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA39&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine+++slavs+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Neretljani&f=false When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PQpU2JGJCMwC&pg=PA24&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Venice, a Maritime Republic] by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=XJAKAAAAIAAJ&q=venice+and+slav+pirates&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=4 Venice and its Story] by Thomas Okey</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=oZjpcHnxH2QC&pg=PA67&dq=Dalmatian+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=22#v=onepage&q=&f=false Great Powers and Geopolitical Change] by Jakub J. Grygiel</ref> The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=vwK4jhvjHQkC&pg=PA86&dq=dubrovnik+earthquake+of+1667&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=dubrovnik%20earthquake%20of%201667&f=false Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries] by Eystein Sverre Husebye</ref> which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture).
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The Slavs,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA39&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine+++slavs+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Neretljani&f=false When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PQpU2JGJCMwC&pg=PA24&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Venice, a Maritime Republic] by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=XJAKAAAAIAAJ&q=venice+and+slav+pirates&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=4 Venice and its Story] by Thomas Okey</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=oZjpcHnxH2QC&pg=PA67&dq=Dalmatian+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=22#v=onepage&q=&f=false Great Powers and Geopolitical Change] by Jakub J. Grygiel</ref> some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population. The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=vwK4jhvjHQkC&pg=PA86&dq=dubrovnik+earthquake+of+1667&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=dubrovnik%20earthquake%20of%201667&f=false Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries] by Eystein Sverre Husebye</ref> which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture).
    
In John Van Antwerp Fine's book ''"When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans"'' the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=identity+in+dubrovnik&source=bl&ots=d90RrUeZKC&sig=Go7muOWSJwxT5CiJZJX8i0FaC0Q&hl=en&ei=XtlMTNnEN4eiuQOPkbS7Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=identity%20in%20dubrovnik&f=false When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref>
 
In John Van Antwerp Fine's book ''"When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans"'' the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=identity+in+dubrovnik&source=bl&ots=d90RrUeZKC&sig=Go7muOWSJwxT5CiJZJX8i0FaC0Q&hl=en&ei=XtlMTNnEN4eiuQOPkbS7Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=identity%20in%20dubrovnik&f=false When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref>
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* [http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html ''Plus'':spiritus-temporis.com here]
 
* [http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html ''Plus'':spiritus-temporis.com here]
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== Concerns over Dalmatian Articles (other Croatian articles too) and Wikipedia ==
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Firstly it appears that Wikipedia has problems with interpreting the history of the Dalmatian region, with  it's multicultural and multiethnic history (& societies). There is a editing bias that seems to pre-vale  and in the end and the articles will then reflect ''points off view'', rather being encyclopaedic. As events are unfolding the bias goes mainly towards the former Communist Yugoslavia (or other-depending on the situation).
   
== Croatia  DNA-Test ==
 
== Croatia  DNA-Test ==
 
Taken from [http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com] <ref>[http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com]</ref>
 
Taken from [http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com] <ref>[http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com]</ref>
Peter Z.
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