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User talk:Peter Z./Wikipedia & Political Agendas (view source)

Revision as of 09:43, 21 July 2011

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Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating articles with old [[Communists|communist]] propaganda rhetoric and it's false information? Is this the next [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Soviet_Encyclopedia#Purpose Great Soviet Encyclopedia]. This part of Wikipedia is not encyclopaedic work, pure and simple.
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Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating articles with old [[Communists|communist]] propaganda rhetoric and it's false information? Is this the Balkan section of Wikipedia becoming the next [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Soviet_Encyclopedia#Purpose Great Soviet Encyclopedia]? This part of Wikipedia is not encyclopaedic work, pure and simple.
 
[http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View#History The Wikipedia Point of View-History]
 
[http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View#History The Wikipedia Point of View-History]
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''by'' '''Cazzo''' (www.sciforums.com)
 
''by'' '''Cazzo''' (www.sciforums.com)
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== Research on Wikipedia’s Articles on the Former Yugoslavia ==
 
== Research on Wikipedia’s Articles on the Former Yugoslavia ==
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Reference  from: Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=-Xkv7ym8hDYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keeping+Tito+Afloat:+The+United+States,+Yugoslavia,+and+the+Cold+War&client=safari&cd=1#v=snippet&q=%20tito%20trade%20papers%20four%20hundred%20thousand&f=false Keeping Tito Afloat] by Lorraine M. Lees.Keeping Tito Afloat draws upon newly declassified documents to show the critical role that Yugoslavia played in U.S. foreign policy with the communist world in the early years of the Cold War. After World War II, the United States considered Yugoslavia to be a loyal Soviet satellite, but Tito surprised the West in 1948 by breaking with Stalin. Seizing this opportunity, the Truman administration sought to "keep Tito afloat" by giving him military and economic aid.</ref>  &  Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce <ref> American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce</ref> ''([[USA|US]] declassified documents from the 1990s)''
 
Reference  from: Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=-Xkv7ym8hDYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keeping+Tito+Afloat:+The+United+States,+Yugoslavia,+and+the+Cold+War&client=safari&cd=1#v=snippet&q=%20tito%20trade%20papers%20four%20hundred%20thousand&f=false Keeping Tito Afloat] by Lorraine M. Lees.Keeping Tito Afloat draws upon newly declassified documents to show the critical role that Yugoslavia played in U.S. foreign policy with the communist world in the early years of the Cold War. After World War II, the United States considered Yugoslavia to be a loyal Soviet satellite, but Tito surprised the West in 1948 by breaking with Stalin. Seizing this opportunity, the Truman administration sought to "keep Tito afloat" by giving him military and economic aid.</ref>  &  Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce <ref> American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce</ref> ''([[USA|US]] declassified documents from the 1990s)''
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* Christopher Bennett: Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences ''"Tito was a Stalinist in his own right"'' . <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=FeiKg3TuNl0C&pg=PA56&dq=titoism&client=safari&cd=9#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse:] Causes, Course and Consequences by Christopher Bennett</ref> ([http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1207940.Yugoslavia_s_Bloody_Collapse_Causes_Course_and_Consequences book info])
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* Christopher Bennett: Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences ''"Tito remained a Stalinist to the end of his life. Tito"'' . <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=FeiKg3TuNl0C&pg=PA56&dq=titoism&client=safari&cd=9#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse:] Causes, Course and Consequences by Christopher Bennett</ref> ([http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1207940.Yugoslavia_s_Bloody_Collapse_Causes_Course_and_Consequences book info])
    
Bennett, a British journalist who has the good fortune to speak both Slovenian and Croatian, a skill that has enabled him to draw heavily on literature of the region that would be unavailable to most American or British journalists.
 
Bennett, a British journalist who has the good fortune to speak both Slovenian and Croatian, a skill that has enabled him to draw heavily on literature of the region that would be unavailable to most American or British journalists.
 
*Vladimir Tismaneanu: The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe: The Poverty of Utopia. ''"Tito was a season Stalinist"''  <ref>The Poverty of Utopia by Vladimir Tismaneanu</ref>
 
*Vladimir Tismaneanu: The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe: The Poverty of Utopia. ''"Tito was a season Stalinist"''  <ref>The Poverty of Utopia by Vladimir Tismaneanu</ref>
 
*  Vesna Pusic-Croatia at the Crossroads/Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 ''"Tito, a Croat and a Moscow-trained communist, ...... While his was a single-party, totalitarian regime, Tito was more a shrewd pragmatist than an ideologue. "''  <ref>[http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_democracy/v009/9.1pusic.html Croatia at the Crossroads] Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 by Vesna Pusic</ref>
 
*  Vesna Pusic-Croatia at the Crossroads/Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 ''"Tito, a Croat and a Moscow-trained communist, ...... While his was a single-party, totalitarian regime, Tito was more a shrewd pragmatist than an ideologue. "''  <ref>[http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_democracy/v009/9.1pusic.html Croatia at the Crossroads] Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 by Vesna Pusic</ref>
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== Notes on References ==
 
== Notes on References ==
 
'''Contemporary views''' of Josip Broz that are clealy referenced:
 
'''Contemporary views''' of Josip Broz that are clealy referenced:
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*'''Council''' of the [[European Union]] (January–June 2008) and the European Commission:
 
*'''Council''' of the [[European Union]] (January–June 2008) and the European Commission:
 
Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency.
 
Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency.
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*'''Joachim Friedrich''' & '''Zbigniew Brzezinski''' ''(Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy)'': <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=U3xCAAAAIAAJ&q=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+regimes&dq=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+regimes&client=safari&cd=1 Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy] by Joachim Friedrich & Zbigniew Brzezinski</ref> Characteristics of a totalitarian regime; a total ideology, a single mass party, a terrorist secret police, a monopoly of mass communication, all instruments to wage combat are in the control of the same hands, and a centrally directed planned economy. Totalitarian dictatorships emerge after the seizure of power by the leaders of a movement who have developed support for an ideology. The point when the government becomes totalitarian is when the leadership uses open and legal violence to maintain its control. The dictator demands unanimous devotion from the people and often uses a real or imaginary enemy to create a threat so the people rally around him.
      
'''Totalitarian machine''':  
 
'''Totalitarian machine''':  
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(Mr Bozic is a Doctor from Zagreb -Croatia, Master of Medical Science and has done 20 years intensive research into ''partisan communists'' in the former Yugoslavia)
 
(Mr Bozic is a Doctor from Zagreb -Croatia, Master of Medical Science and has done 20 years intensive research into ''partisan communists'' in the former Yugoslavia)
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*The below referenced information is from ‘Discontents: Post-modern and Post-communist’ by Paul Hollander [http://daviscenter.fas.harvard.edu/people/bio_hollander.html][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hollander].
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:''“Virtually every [[Communists|communist]] system extinct or surviving at one point or another, had a supreme leader who was both extraordinarily powerful and surrounded by a bizarre cult, indeed worship. In the past (or in a more traditional contemporary societies) such as cults were reserved for deities and associated with conventional religious behaviour and institutions. These cults although apparently an intrinsic part of communist dictatorships (at any rate at a stage in their evolution) are largely forgotten today.”''
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:''“ Stalin, Maio, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Sung, Enver Hoxha, Ceascesu, Dimitrov, Ulbricht, Gottwald, '''Tito''' and others all were the object of such cults. The prototypical cult was that of Stalin which was duplicated elsewhere with minor variations”''
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Paul Hollander is an American scholar, journalist, and conservative political writer. (Ph.D in Sociology. Princeton University, 1963, B.A. London School of Economics, 1959 Professor Emeritus of Sociology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Centre Associate, Davis).
      
* Croatia: Amnesty International & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE
 
* Croatia: Amnesty International & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE
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Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Goldstein] work  ''above'' proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references [http://books.google.com/books?id=pSxJdE4MYo4C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=Ivo+Goldstein+josip+broz+tito&source=bl&ots=LhBvNMaOlk&sig=xzaZOyX2NizYEnvG6LFgv5_sh2c&hl=en&ei=DrDmSsKeNI-PkQXukOTBBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=liberation%20of%20belgrade%20october%201944&f=false], this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such a historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.
 
Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Goldstein] work  ''above'' proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references [http://books.google.com/books?id=pSxJdE4MYo4C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=Ivo+Goldstein+josip+broz+tito&source=bl&ots=LhBvNMaOlk&sig=xzaZOyX2NizYEnvG6LFgv5_sh2c&hl=en&ei=DrDmSsKeNI-PkQXukOTBBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=liberation%20of%20belgrade%20october%201944&f=false], this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such a historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.
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== When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine ==
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*[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA62&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Neretljani]
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* [http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA30&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Contradict himself]
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== Deletion On Wiki Talk Page Josip Broz Tito (fun and games) ==
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*[[Directory:Josip Broz Tito and Wikipedia|Josip Broz Tito and Wikipedia]]‎
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Dear reader just recently my thoughts on talkpage Tito have been deleted and it seems it’s going to stay that way. Since I am faced with the fact that my opinions are being suppressed and then eventually will be blocked, I’ve decided to put this out there so these events may be known to the wider wiki community.
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The article in question is Josip Broz Tito (the former Dictator of Yugoslavia- East Europe). He was commander of the partisan forces during world war 2 and later a Stalinistic style dictator of the former Yugoslavia. The Wikipedic article is biased and does not mention crimes (Bleiburg massacre & foibe massacres)) against humanity that were committed under his leadership.
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I registered that this should be part of the article and as a result I have been deleted. One writer was very abusive and deleted my writings on talk back pages. His name is DIREKTOR. He was supported by Ruhrfisch ><>°° I would like to quote some of the Direktor’s statements regarding this article just to inform you of what we are dealing with here.
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{{Cquote|Find yourself another one of your crappy "forums" to talk about your presumptions. Just forget about this, Luigi/Brunodam, you're not annoying anyone - you're just turning out amusing. I think I'll file a checkuser in an hour or so, you'd better believe it when I say I'll delete everything you wrote if you're a sock. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)}}
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These events are not some conspiracy. They have been part of the western media since the break up of the former Yugoslavia. They have been presented as TV documentaries, on talk back shows and in general writings in England, other parts of Europe and USA, Australia and other parts of the free world. They are backed by eye witness accounts by people who were actually caught up in these events.
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The Croatian government is addressing these issues with investigations and financial reimbursement is being given to the victims. These are facts and should be present in the article and not deleted when someone points them out. These actions mirror the attitude of the regime that I am trying to expose.
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The Josip Broz Tito article is a dangerous biased piece of writing. It would fit perfectly in any article of the old the Yugoslavia or the old Soviet Union propaganda machine (Cult of personality). Why is it there? The only answer it seems is that Wikipedia has some writers of extreme views (Stalin Style) who don’t tolerate being questioned.
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Referenced from www.britannica.com: "The irony of Tito’s remarkable life is that he created the conditions for the eventual destruction of his lifelong effort. Instead of allowing the process of democratisation to establish its own limits, he constantly upset the work of reformers while failing to satisfy their adversaries. He created a federal state, yet he constantly fretted over the pitfalls of decentralization."
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Tito was the commander of the Partisans and there are far too many examples of mass murders & mass arrests for it to be ignored (& there are many more). Any good encyclopedic article should make reference to them. It would be like Stalin without his rule of terror being documented. This just dosen't make sense in the modern world. What we have here is a clear avoidance of these issues (in the article), thus making it biased.
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{{Cquote|Direktor '''stated''': they have absolutely nothing to do with Josip Broz Tito}} Well then, what ''' did Tito do'''? Did he let these horrible events just happen? Did he have a '''moral conscience''' (the war did end)? Was he '''incompetent?''' Was he the great leader that the Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine portrayed him to be? Even the Wiki article states this. I have shown here credible references and sources to prove my argument, please take them into account.
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*[http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html spiritus-temporis.com]
   
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== References ==
 
== References ==
 
<references/>
 
<references/>
Peter Z.
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