MyWikiBiz, Author Your Legacy — Tuesday May 28, 2024
Jump to navigationJump to search

Session Start: Mon Dec 26 00:00:01 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�03[00:01] * Amgine (~amgine@ has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[00:01] * Amgine (~amgine@ Quit (Changing host�)
�03[00:01] * Amgine (~amgine@wikinews/Amgine) has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[00:02] * ChaoticGood ( has left #wikipedia-en
�15[00:02] * IShadowed (~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
�03[00:02] * MX80 ( has joined #wikipedia-en
�06[00:04] * Ironholds has finished a blog post. That, sirs, is the smell of satisfaction.
�03[00:04] * erikhaugen ( has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[00:04] * erikhaugen ( Quit (Changing host�)
�03[00:04] * erikhaugen (~erikhauge@wikipedia/ErikHaugen) has joined #wikipedia-en
�08[00:06] <derp> Howdy Ironholds, happy holidays and Happy Hannukah :)
[00:06] <Ironholds> yo
�03[00:06] * JeffAndroIrcAFK (~Jeff_G_do@wikipedia/Jeff-G.) has joined #wikipedia-en
�06[00:06] * sonia hugs Ironholds
[00:06] <Ironholds> sonia: how goeth?
�08[00:06] * derp huggles sonia tightly.
[00:06] <sonia> fairly well, at the moment.
�06[00:07] * sonia feeds derp some ice cream.
�15[00:07] * evilgohan2 ( Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer�)
[00:07] <Ironholds> sonia: excellent! had a good jesusday?
�08[00:08] <derp> sonia, i had LOTS of ice cream :)
�03[00:08] * evilgohan2 ( has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:08] <sonia> I slept through it actually, Ironholds, then edited and watched my little pony all night
�03[00:08] * TheChaoticGood ( has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:09] <Ironholds> sonia: I spent the day running around giggling
[00:09] <sonia> hah
[00:09] <sonia> why so?
[00:09] <Ironholds> with a black christmas hat rammed on my head that read BAH HUMBUG, with my ears poking out like an elf
[00:09] <Pilif12p> Hey Ironholds, you're a law person, right?
[00:09] <Ironholds> because christmas hats are inherently funny, and giggling adults doubly so
[00:10] <Ironholds> it's a self-perpetuating cycle
�08[00:10] <derp> Howdy Pilif12p :)
[00:10] <Ironholds> Pilif12p: what do you need? :P
[00:10] <Pilif12p> hi derp
[00:10] <sonia> Ironholds: pics or it didn't happen
�15[00:10] * Betacommand (~Betacomma@unaffiliated/betacommand) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]�)
[00:10] <Pilif12p> Ironholds: Would a laptop manufacturer putting something in their BIOS so that only three wifi cards, one of which is manufactured by them work be considered a monopoly/be in violation of antitrust laws?
[00:10] <Ironholds> sonia: there is a pic of me, tired from giggling at 2pm, asleep and cuddling a pillow
[00:11] <sonia> aww
[00:11] <sonia> where is this picture?
[00:11] <Ironholds> it was originally my other half
[00:11] <Ironholds> she escaped and then shoved a pillow between my arms to prevent me noticing
[00:11] <sonia> heh
[00:11] <Ironholds> sonia: on facebook, or it will be in 30 seconds
�08[00:11] <derp> Pilif12p, wich country would said laws apply to?
[00:11] <sonia> 'k
[00:11] <Ironholds> Pilif12p: which nation? I can only comment on EU competition law.
[00:12] <Pilif12p> Ironholds: Uh, the company is based somewhere in Asia, but distributes worldwide
�03[00:12] * Doyak (~AndChat@ has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:12] <harej> Pilif12p: Then what country do YOU live in?
[00:12] <Ironholds> Pilif12p: with EU subsidiaries?
[00:13] <Pilif12p> harej: US
�03[00:13] * lucasoutloud ( has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:13] <Ironholds> they'd ideally need a legal entity registered in an EU nation
�03[00:13] * Betacommand (~Betacomma@unaffiliated/betacommand) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[00:13] * Stelpa ( Quit (Remote host closed the connection�)
[00:13] <harej> Pilif12p: If this firm is found to be breaking U.S. laws, the Department of Commerce can block importation of this product in question.
�03[00:14] * Dcoetzee (~chatzilla@wikimedia/Dcoetzee) has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:14] <Pilif12p> Ironholds: I have no idea if they're one...
[00:14] <harej> (I am not a lawyer.)
�15[00:14] * DarkXPhenomenon (~DarkXPhen@ Quit
[00:14] <Ironholds> Pilif12p: that'd be the crucial thing
[00:14] <Ironholds> no EU subsidiary, no EU law
[00:14] <Dcoetzee> Hey all :-)
[00:15] <Pilif12p> how would I go about searching?
�08[00:15] <derp> JSTOR?
[00:15] <harej> Ironholds: That's interesting; I don't think the United States cares if a company has a U.S. subsidiary or not.
[00:16] <sonia> Ironholds: suddenly can't find you on fb, huh
[00:16] <Ironholds> sonia: I went crazy and may have blocked every wikimedian at one point
�08[00:16] <derp> or even a shell company, or umbrella company.
�06[00:16] * Ironholds looks guilty
[00:16] <sonia> heh
[00:16] <Ironholds> harej: then what would you even sue?
[00:16] <sonia> that's not a problem :P
[00:17] <Pilif12p> Ironholds: it *looks* like the company does
[00:17] <harej> Ironholds: You'd sue the foreign corporation? But you're right; practically speaking every company that does business in the U.S. probably has some form of operation in the U.S.
�03[00:17] * TheChaoticGood ( has left #wikipedia-en ("Silentium est aureum"�)
[00:18] <harej> What I do know is that the government can block the importation of products if they violate U.S. law.
[00:19] <Ironholds> harej: no, but how would you sue the foreign corporation?
[00:19] <harej> I cannot answer that.
[00:19] <Ironholds> I'm a US citizen wanting to sue a Chinese company in a US court. How?
[00:19] <Ironholds> mindspillage, you're needed.
[00:19] <Ironholds> I know it works the other way around - see ATS - but that sounds impossible to enforce.
[00:19] <Ironholds> Pilif12p: aha!
[00:19] <Ironholds> then I can provide an answer
[00:20] <harej> It's not possible unless someone found a way to serve someone in a foreign country and then have that subpoena have the force of law in that country.
�03[00:20] * [Addihockey10] (~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10) has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:20] <harej> I.e. extradition, but for civil suits, which I am not sure is a thing.
[00:20] <Ironholds> *nods*
[00:20] <Ironholds> see, over here, we have this concept of enforcing reasonable civil writs from other nations
[00:20] <mindspillage> You can sue a foreign corporation in a US court if they operate in the US. You may not actually be able to meaningfully enforce though.
[00:20] <Ironholds> Pilif12p: you'd be looking at Article 102, abuse of dominant position
[00:20] <Ironholds> cartel doesn't really work, that'd be 101.
[00:21] <harej> mindspillage: There is a distinction between a foreign corporation registered to operate in the U.S. and a foreign organization with a U.S. subsidiary, yes?
[00:21] <Ironholds> Anyway, first, you'd need to show they control a substantial chunk of the market - the test, according to case law, is basically "enough that they can flip the bird at manufacturers and consumers"
[00:21] <mindspillage> harej: what kind of distinction are you thinking of?
[00:21] <Pilif12p> (the company in question is Lenovo)
[00:21] <harej> mindspillage: The one that exists at the state level :P
[00:21] <harej> But on a national basis, or something.
[00:22] <harej> As it relates to trade among the states and between nations.
[00:22] <Pilif12p> simply google "Lenovo bios whitelist" and there are many results.
[00:22] <harej> But that raises a good point; technically, there is no such thing as a United States corporation.
[00:22] <Ironholds> second largest PC maker...okay, dominant, yes :P
[00:22] <harej> Corporate law is one of the few areas where state sovereignty still exists.
�06[00:22] * mindspillage reads scrollback further back to see what the original issue was.
[00:22] <Ironholds> sonia: now on facespace
[00:22] <sonia> I saw, and awwwwed.
[00:22] <Ironholds> hehe
[00:23] <Ironholds> Pilif12p: second question; are they abusing this position to unfairly restrict consumer choice?
[00:23] <mindspillage> Pilif12p: good freaking luck. Theoretically the FTC could intervene, practically, you have better luck building a perpetual motion machine.
[00:23] <Ironholds> a good piece of guidance on this is Microsoft v Commission, actually
[00:23] <Pilif12p> Ironholds: They can *buy* whatever they want, but there's a good chance that what they buy won't work
�03[00:23] * Fae (~Fae@wikipedia/Fae) has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:23] <Ironholds> that'd count as a "yes"
[00:24] <Ironholds> congratulations! You will not immediately get laughed out of court.
�03[00:24] * TheTylersPrice (4b278b2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[00:24] * Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds�)
[00:24] <Ironholds> you will need to speak to the European Commission, or, since Directive 1/2003, the national competition law body of whichever nation they have a legal presence in.
�03[00:24] * Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:25] <Ironholds> Despite 1/2003 the right of private people or entities to enforce is incredibly limited. The right of national authorities, however, is limitless
[00:25] <mindspillage> Pilif12p: the issue is that you wouldn't really have standing to sue them for antitrust issues yourself. You could a) try to get a class action suit going or b) try to get the FTC to intervene. I have alreayd cynically commented on the prospects of the latter.
[00:25] <harej> mindspillage: the IRS deposited Wikimedia DC's user fee check :x
[00:25] <Pilif12p> Even if it's not illegal, it's totally unethical, and if they don't provide a decent answer to my request I won't be buying another product from them.
[00:25] <Ironholds> (to the point where the law says "if Ofcom wants to break into an office without a search warrant and steal all the paperwork, that's cool")
�15[00:25] * Earwig (~earwig@wikipedia/The-Earwig) Quit (Quit: Earwig�)
�03[00:26] * TheTylersPrice is now known as FONsuxx
�03[00:26] * IShadowed ( has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[00:26] * IShadowed ( Quit (Changing host�)
�03[00:26] * IShadowed (~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed) has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:26] <Pilif12p> mindspillage: being under 18 sucks >_> I doubt that my parents would file a class action lawsuit over this
�06[00:26] * sonia laughs
[00:26] <Ironholds> mindspillage: A would presumably be dependant, realistically, on there being something to sue. A class action against a foreign company is all well and nice but doesn't actually result in paydirt.
[00:26] <[Addihockey10]> Pilif12p: I have a solution.
[00:26] <harej> Ironholds: I'd criticize your governmental structure for being cool with warrantless search and seizure, but then again I *am* from the United States.
[00:26] <[Addihockey10]> Pilif12p: STOP BITCHING :-)
[00:26] <Pilif12p> I'll simply call their support center, bitch them out, and tell everybody I know never to buy a lenovo computer.
�03[00:26] * Resfirestar ( has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:26] <Ironholds> harej: it is subject to judicial review
�15[00:26] * Resfirestar ( Quit (Changing host�)
�03[00:26] * Resfirestar (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:26] <Ironholds> [Addihockey10]: pot, kettle
[00:26] <mindspillage> Ironholds: it does for the lawyers! Individual class members would get a lovely $20 coupon on a future computer purchase.
[00:27] <Ironholds> who was it who emailed me going "can you sue a canadian company for me please for sending me a computer that didn't have a bluetooth adapter"?
[00:27] <Ironholds> I do believe it was yourself.
�15[00:27] * funnyfarm299 ( Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0.1/20111120135848]�)
[00:27] <Ironholds> mindspillage: hah
[00:27] <harej> mindspillage: In the depressingly many cases where warrantless search and seizure happens against the Fourth Amendment, is that subject to judicial review?
[00:27] <[Addihockey10]> Nope. Not at all.
[00:27] <Pilif12p> [Addihockey10]: Yeah, when I spend my money on something that's supposed to work on a computer, I expect it to work in my computer
[00:27] <[Addihockey10]> Ironholds: American too.
[00:27] <mindspillage> harej: what do you mean, 4th amendment? Didn't we delete that one?
[00:27] <Pilif12p> Not be blocked because the manufacturer doesn't want me putting what I want in my computer
[00:28] <Ironholds> mindspillage: surely they'd get 4 dollars; lawyers fees, and all
[00:28] <Ironholds> mindspillage: oh, hello justice Scalia, you've got shorter
�03[00:28] * openstrings ( has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:28] <Ironholds> openstrings: wb
[00:28] <mindspillage> harej: again, good freaking luck. The border search exception stuff has already been litigated a few times and the 4th amendment lost.
�03[00:28] * openstrings is now known as Guest85558
[00:28] <harej> Actually, as the result of a class action lawsuit against Apple, my dad was able to trade in his 1st generation iPod nano that died a long time ago with the latest generation iPod nano.
[00:29] <mindspillage> (where "border" means "basically any transportation hub and anything remotely near a coast")
[00:29] <[Addihockey10]> harej: What was the lawsuit for?
[00:29] <harej> Manufacturing defects, I think.
[00:29] <[Addihockey10]> My iPod shuffle went through the wash many times and still worsk
[00:29] <[Addihockey10]> :-P
[00:30] <Ironholds> mindspillage: the exception being "if you want to search someone's stuff because they look arab-y, s'cool"?
�03[00:30] * pinburious ( has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:30] <mindspillage> Ironholds: the exception being "if you want to search someone's stuff because you're bored and they might have looked at you funny, that's cool".
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <FONsuxx> HEY, EVERYONE! If you remember some asshole rogue admin named Freakofnurture, I HAVE SOME PERSONAL INFO ON HIM!!! LOOK!:
[00:31] <[Addihockey10]> !ops
�03[00:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o log
�03[00:31] * FONsuxx (4b278b2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #wikipedia-en (requested by log (Goodbye)�)
�03[00:31] * log sets mode: +b *!4b278b2e@gateway/*
�03[00:31] * ChanServ sets mode: -o log
�03[00:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o log
�15[00:31] * sonia (~sonia@wikipedia/sonia) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds�)
�03[00:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jeremyb
�03[00:31] * log sets mode: +r
�03[00:31] * ChanServ sets mode: -o log
�03[00:31] * Guest85558 is now known as sonia
[00:31] <Ironholds> mindspillage: I remember Cory Doctorow complaining about something similar
[00:31] <log> Yes, hello.
[00:31] <jeremyb> how pleasant
[00:31] <Ironholds> although he always draws attention to the primary reason people have stopped caring about civil liberties
�03[00:31] * jeremyb sets mode: -o jeremyb
�03[00:31] * sonia is now known as Guest55846
�03[00:32] * Guest55846 is now known as sonia
[00:32] <Ironholds> "the people who DO care seem to mostly be whingy, whiney, pretentious sods"
�15[00:32] * sonia ( Quit (Changing host�)
�03[00:32] * sonia (~sonia@wikipedia/sonia) has joined #wikipedia-en
[00:32] <sonia> sigh
�06[00:32] * foks /clear's
[00:33] <mindspillage> Guilty.
[00:33] <harej> Ironholds: both whingy AND whiney?
[00:35] <Ironholds> harej: Doctorow, yes
[00:35] <[Addihockey10]> foks: I reported it.
[00:35] <[Addihockey10]> It should be removed...
[00:35] <Ironholds> mindspillage: mostly! I meant Cory "I release as -NC because I hate schoolchildren" Doctorow.
[00:35] <[Addihockey10]> I actually can't gift  you.
[00:35] <[Addihockey10]> I can only gift canadians.
�06[00:36] * Ironholds sent gifts to all his american friends and co-workers
[00:36] <Ironholds> or, all the ones I like, at least
[00:37] <[Addihockey10]> Ironholds: I didn't receive a gift
[00:37] <[Addihockey10]> Oh.
[00:37] <[Addihockey10]> The ones you like
[00:37] <Ironholds> [Addihockey10]: American!
[00:37] <[Addihockey10]> Ironholds: North American?
[00:37] <[Addihockey10]> :-D
[00:37] <Ironholds> mindspillage, my boss, my other boss, my other boss
[00:38] <Ironholds> jorm, I didn't get anything, because I spent about 90 bucks on the thing I brought to SF for him.
�15[00:38] * YE ( Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds�)
[00:38] <Ironholds> quanticle|away got nothing because I dislike him.
Session Close: Mon Dec 26 00:38:53 2011

Session Start: Mon Dec 26 17:44:18 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�03[17:44] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
�03[17:44] * Topic is 'English Wikipedia: | Status: Up ( | Channel guidelines: | Channel operator: Ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops <request...> | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request...> | No public logging | Cloak requests:�'
�03[17:44] * Set by Fluffernutter!~Fluffernu@wikipedia/Fluffernutter on Fri Dec 23 22:26:48
[17:44] #wikipedia-en url is
[17:44] <lucasoutloud> [Box]: You actually bought an iOS product?  Ha!  You're not getting any money out of me.
[17:44] <[Box]> lucasoutloud: I didn't. It was given to me.
[17:45] <juancarlos> DYK: iTouch is a made-up term?
[17:45] <lucasoutloud> [Box]: Oh.  Well, that is different.
[17:45] <[Box]> juancarlos: Mhm :-)
�08[17:45] * derp hugs juancarlos
[17:45] <juancarlos> ohai
[17:45] <[Box]> lucasoutloud: I'll PM you my article on iPhone 4S and what I think
�08[17:45] * derp is in Clifton Park, NY
[17:45] <lucasoutloud> derp: How is huggle coming along.
�08[17:45] <derp> eating supper atm.
[17:45] <lucasoutloud> [Box]: Sure.
�08[17:46] <derp> lucasoutloud, didn't start any dev yet, i forgot to bring the source with me :P
[17:46] <lucasoutloud> derp: Nyoro~n
[17:46] <[Box]> derp: Give me $10 via paypal so I can protect what you used to sell.
�08[17:46] <derp> nah :)
[17:46] <[Box]> :(
�08[17:46] <derp> lucasoutloud, luckily, i have dropbox :)
�08[17:46] <derp> it has the most current snapshot
[17:46] <[Box]> derp: Thanks to you, unluckily I can't get a good deal on otterbox.
�08[17:47] <derp> :P
�08[17:47] <derp> Peter-C, get your scrawny ass in here.
�03[17:47] * crackfu ( has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[17:48] * TBloemink (~TBloemink@wikimedia/tbloemink) Quit (Quit: Houd het fort allen!�)
�15[17:51] * Netalarm (~Netalarm@TechEssentials/Netalarm) Quit (Quit: Shutting down�)
�08[17:51] <derp> Hopefully, we're gonna spend the night in Cherry Hill, NJ
[17:51] <juancarlos> in a rest stop?
�03[17:51] * Netalarm ( has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[17:51] * Netalarm ( Quit (Changing host�)
�03[17:51] * Netalarm (~Netalarm@TechEssentials/Netalarm) has joined #wikipedia-en
�08[17:53] <derp> juancarlos, yes
�08[17:53] <derp> at least, we're in a RV :)
�08[17:53] <derp> I'll try to spot lot lizards :P
[17:54] <harej> I see you are in New Jersey! How is that going for you?
[17:54] <juancarlos> have you met the cast from the shore?
[17:54] <harej> killy kill loves that show for some reason
[17:54] <harej> he wishes i were from the jersey shore
�08[17:54] <derp> harej, we're gonna be in NJ in about a hour and a half
[17:55] <juancarlos> how's the turnpike?
�08[17:55] <derp> smooth so far
[17:55] <juancarlos> and the parkways
[17:55] <harej> the highway's jammed with broken heros on a last chance powerdrive
�08[17:55] <derp> true true
�08[17:55] <derp> anyways
�08[17:55] <derp> i gotta go, we're leaving <3
Session Close: Mon Dec 26 17:55:32 2011

Session Start: Mon Dec 26 17:55:32 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
[17:55] SpamTunes stopped.
�11[17:55] * Disconnected
Session Close: Mon Dec 26 17:55:32 2011

Session Start: Mon Dec 26 19:22:06 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�03[19:22] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
�03[19:22] * Topic is 'English Wikipedia: | Status: Up ( | Channel guidelines: | Channel operator: Ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops <request...> | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request...> | No public logging | Cloak requests:�'
�03[19:22] * Set by Fluffernutter!~Fluffernu@wikipedia/Fluffernutter on Fri Dec 23 22:26:48
[19:22] #wikipedia-en url is
[19:22] <Peter-C> "The Pentagon cannot continue with business as usual when it comes to the F-22 or any other program in excess of our needs."
[19:22] <TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: I know, it doesnt take into account upgrades and improvements.  It's just one measurement.
[19:22] <Peter-C> The f-22 was too damn good!
[19:22] <Gfoley4> Helen_Keller: behave
�12[19:22] -Prodego- don't flood please
[19:22] <ToAruShiroiNeko> the UK has high tech millitary to minimize upkeep
[19:22] <Peter-C> ToAruShiroiNeko - one issue I can see with the f-22 is the hatch issue
[19:22] <ToAruShiroiNeko> the US military is far too spread
[19:22] <TParis> Peter-C: The F-22 actual costs is about 2-3x higher than the official costs.
[19:22] <Peter-C> Really?
[19:22] <TParis> Because of some kind of software glitch
[19:23] <Peter-C> blah
[19:23] <Peter-C> A-10's have no software issues! :D
[19:23] <Prodego> {{cn}}
[19:23] <Peter-C> I love their CICU <3
[19:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Peter-C they actually do
[19:23] <Peter-C> Stop ruining my hopes and dreams god damn it D:
�03[19:23] * Seahorse (~Seahorse@wikipedia/Seahorseruler) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:24] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis the way I see it having a decent airforce is important but not as important as it used to be. The enemy doesnt have tanks most of the time in the modern wars
[19:24] <ToAruShiroiNeko> heck enemy doesnt even have anti-air
[19:24] <Peter-C> What about Libya?
[19:24] <ToAruShiroiNeko> libya was semi-conventional warfare
[19:24] <TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: Most folks in congress would agree with you.
[19:24] <Peter-C> They mounted AA guns on the back of their Toyotas!
[19:25] <ToAruShiroiNeko> libyan millitary wasnt a serious threat
�15[19:25] * Vito (~Vito@unaffiliated/vito) Quit (Quit: ZNC -�)
�08[19:25] <Helen_Keller> What do you call Stevie Wonder and Hellen Keller playing tennis?
�08[19:25] <Helen_Keller> Eternal love.
[19:25] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis it is true. It is a good idea to have top notch planes just in case if russians or germans pick up a fight again :p
[19:26] <ToAruShiroiNeko> but aside from that the US does not expect to find itself in real conventional warfare
[19:26] <TParis> The thing is, we can desimate any country in the world in under 24 hours.  But how long will that advantage last?
�03[19:26] * agk-wiki ( has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:26] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis I disagree
[19:26] <Peter-C> TParis - I think 3 weeks is more like it
[19:26] <ToAruShiroiNeko> US cannot do that to china
[19:26] <Peter-C> (if we want to be conventional about it)
[19:27] <ToAruShiroiNeko> why? Chinese have more people than US has ammunition :p
[19:27] <TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: China may be an exception, but the actual timeframe wouldnt be very long even in Chinas case if we were to launch a full out war.
[19:27] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis also capability wise a good chunk of US millitary cannot be mobilised
[19:27] <Peter-C> ToAruShiroiNeko - You never heard the story about having one bullet and having Hitler, Stalin, and Ironholds in a room?
[19:27] <Peter-C> :P
[19:27] <ToAruShiroiNeko> US millitary is far too spread out
[19:28] <goodgentleman> guys its me yoyo
[19:28] <goodgentleman> that idiot is still going
[19:28] <goodgentleman> see
[19:28] <goodgentleman> can someone sort it out
[19:28] <goodgentleman> cheers
[19:28] <TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: You'd be surprised.  The USAF prides itself that it can move an entire wing in 24 hours.
[19:28] <ToAruShiroiNeko> goodgentleman he seems to like you
[19:28] <TParis> We call them Air Expenditionary Wings.
[19:28] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis right but doing so would open a hole in the defensive line
[19:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I mean if you were to empty alaska to attack china russia would kick ur ballz
[19:29] <TParis> Not really.  We're pretty well overlapped and we have protection treaties with our neighboors.
�03[19:29] * CRRaysHead90 (~CR90@unaffiliated/crrayshead90) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:29] <TParis> Canada doesn't have a negligible force.
[19:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis you want canadians to protect your ass? :D
[19:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko> all russia needs to do is bomb them with enough vodka :p
[19:29] <TParis> Haha, that's true.  The Canadians do drink a lot :D
[19:30] <Peter-C> The Canadian army soldiers have been know to drive strykers off mountain sides...
[19:30] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis My theory is that is because Canadians do not have enough theme parks
[19:30] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Canada has mountains?
[19:30] <TParis> haha, but they sure dp have a lot of hockey
�15[19:31] * Beria_ (~Beria@wikimedia/Beria) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds�)
[19:31] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Peter-C it takes tallent to drive anything off of mountain sides in canada :p
[19:31] <Peter-C> Some canadian in Iraq looked away from the road and drove the stryker he was driving off a mountain side
[19:31] <TParis> Honestly though, we're not as spread as you might imagine.
[19:31] <Peter-C> The vechicle was a bit scratched, the people in side were banged up though
[19:31] <TParis> If we were to put our full force to war, some 3 million active, guard, and reserve forces, we'd have a much larger force.
[19:32] <TParis> Right now though, we dont deploy all of our forces at a time.
[19:32] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis true
[19:32] <TParis> For example, the Air Force is on 6 month on, 12 months off rotations.
[19:32] <ToAruShiroiNeko> what I am saying is that is why some US hardware isnt high tech
[19:32] <ToAruShiroiNeko> thats why UK appears more high tech because they arent as spread
[19:32] <Peter-C> Is high tech software required?
[19:32] <Peter-C> An A-10 can still blow shit up
[19:32] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Peter-C not really
[19:32] <Peter-C> But it can't go on the internet
[19:32] <gde33> bankrupt dictatorships stuffing their last money in war toys
[19:33] <gde33> lmao
[19:33] <TParis> ToShiroiNeko: The US is low tech because we spend more money developing the armies of other nations than our own.
[19:33] <TParis> We take loans from China so we can give money to poorer countries.
[19:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis right
[19:33] <gde33> haha
[19:33] <TParis> I dont understand why we have to be the middle man
[19:33] <gde33> but that money is needed to hoodwink the local economy in those countries
[19:33] <TParis> Just let Iraq, North Korea, Sudan, and every other country we give money to take out their own damn loans.
[19:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis I think it is more like US is the postal service :)
�03[19:34] * Beria (~Beria@wikimedia/Beria) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:34] <TParis> Or at the very least, let's stop giving money to countries that hate us.
[19:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis north korea doesnt hate you
[19:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko> they love you!
[19:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko> :p
[19:34] <TParis> Congress couldn't find $1.2 trillion over 10 years....well I can...
[19:34] <gde33> but then they will build an ecconomy of their own!
[19:35] <gde33> we have a lot of money invested in other countries not having any economy
[19:35] <TParis> We should not take loans from foreign countries when we are giving money to foreign countries.
[19:35] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis you mean congressman dont have a clue as to wtf they are doing? news to me :p
[19:35] <harej> WHY IS THIS HAPPENING
�03[19:35] * harej (~harej@wikipedia/MessedRocker) has left #wikipedia-en ("Leaving"�)
[19:35] <Peter-C> LOL
[19:35] <TParis> Well that was a quick exit
[19:35] <Peter-C> ^
[19:36] <ToAruShiroiNeko> he ejected from the discussion!
[19:36] <gde33> we should stop forein aid and free the budget to buy mass murder
[19:36] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Peter-C seriously though ordering an A-10 to bomb something spesific is meh
[19:36] <gde33> the glory of the militardy
[19:36] <ToAruShiroiNeko> an F-18 would bomb the target and return by the time A-10 is halfway there
[19:36] <TParis> gde33: We should stop foreign aid until we can afford it without taking out a loan.
[19:36] <Peter-C> I like the A10 because I think I would feel safer in it
[19:37] <Peter-C> more redundency
[19:37] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis the thing is US doesnt really provide aid as in handing countries cash
[19:37] <gde33> TParis: there is no "afford" there is just western countries printing money
[19:37] <ToAruShiroiNeko> US aid is more like building shit in foreign lands to profit from it
[19:37] <Peter-C> The one thing I do not like is the manuverability
�08[19:37] <Helen_Keller> Prodego, question
[19:37] <Peter-C> And it requires a lot of programing before take off
�08[19:37] <Helen_Keller> Peter-C, question
[19:37] <TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: Yeah we do.  Amoungst other forms of aid, we actually give quite a lot of cash.  Sometimes it isnt direct though.  A lot of our foreign cash aid goes through the UN.
[19:37] <Prodego> Helen_Keller: better ask it, keeping in mind what I've said
[19:37] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis well UN budget is an entirely different animal
[19:37] <TParis> gde33: Cash has to be backed up by gold.
�08[19:38] <Helen_Keller> Prodego, you suck.
[19:38] <Peter-C> TParis - I thought they got rid of that in the 50's
�03[19:38] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Prodego
�03[19:38] * Prodego sets mode: +b *!*@2001:0:4137:9e76:3c33:2c95:b9cf:a0e1
�08[19:38] <Helen_Keller> Cash so shit
�03[19:38] * ChanServ sets mode: -o Prodego
[19:38] #wikipedia-en Cannot send to channel
[19:38] <ToAruShiroiNeko> either you throw money in developing countries or they become terrorist hotspots
[19:38] <ToAruShiroiNeko> it is an interesting academic field to read actuallyt
[19:38] <Peter-C> Prodego just banned Helen_Keller...
[19:38] <Peter-C> I find that a weird thing to say
�03[19:38] * harej ( has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[19:38] * harej ( Quit (Changing host�)
�03[19:38] * harej (~harej@wikipedia/MessedRocker) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:38] <TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: Let them take out their own Chinese loans.
[19:38] <Peter-C> welcome back
[19:38] <TParis> wb
�08[19:38] -> *Peter-C* GNAA <3 you.
�03[19:38] * harej (~harej@wikipedia/MessedRocker) has left #wikipedia-en
[19:38] <Peter-C> We were talking about rising against the 1%
[19:38] <Peter-C> ...
[19:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis US should just abolish air force, then there would be enough cash for all :P
[19:39] <Ironholds> Peter-C, your dad is a commercial lawyer
[19:39] <Ironholds> you ARE the bloody 1 percent
�03[19:39] * Sp33dyphil (1b209a83@wikipedia/Sp33dyphil) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:39] <Peter-C> I meant rising against the 1% of the budget
[19:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds am I the 1%?
[19:39] <TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: The USAF budget pales in comparison to the Army.
[19:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis probably
[19:39] <Sp33dyphil> Huggle working for anybody?
[19:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko> USAF needs moar big ass planes that can go to space
[19:40] <juancarlos> I don't think if one's dad is a lawyer that makes then the 1%. Aren't there more celebrities than lawyers? ;-)
�03[19:40] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Prodego
Session Close: Mon Dec 26 19:40:16 2011

Session Start: Mon Dec 26 21:49:45 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
�03[21:49] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
�03[21:49] * Topic is 'English Wikipedia: | Status: Up ( | Channel guidelines: | Channel operator: Ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops <request...> | For urgent admin help, say !admin <request...> | No public logging | Cloak requests:�'
�03[21:49] * Set by Fluffernutter!~Fluffernu@wikipedia/Fluffernutter on Fri Dec 23 22:26:48
[21:49] #wikipedia-en url is
�03[21:49] * Retrieving #wikipedia-en modes...
[21:49] <log> I hate discussions about logging in. I always have to end up being a part of them.
[21:49] <kylu> elsewhere, it goes through a number of security questions to verify that I'm me, then calls me on the cell to ensure that I'm me.
[21:50] <lucasoutloud> log: So, why am I a murderer?
�08[21:50] <Hella_Back> lucasoutloud, you murdered my puppies.
[21:50] <lucasoutloud> Hella_Back: You don't have the context.
[21:50] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Banaticus unfortunately wifis have limited characters for passwords
�08[21:50] <Hella_Back> I do.
[21:50] <log> lucasoutloud: But he has the evidence.
�08[21:50] <Hella_Back> lucasoutloud, context bitch please.
[21:51] <Steven_Zhang> ugh
[21:51] <Steven_Zhang> busterD reopened their rfa
[21:51] <Steven_Zhang> really?
�08[21:51] <Hella_Back> Hello Steven_Zhang.
�08[21:51] <Hella_Back> krsfhnlaehjfposhfdgihenpio;gb
[21:51] <log> lucasoutloud: Honestly, though, I just said that because the other guy said that you bit Steven_Zhang. :P
[21:51] <log> Thus, you're a vampire.
[21:51] <Steven_Zhang> hello derp
[21:51] <ToAruShiroiNeko> rfa's should be conducted through ebay sales
[21:52] <lucasoutloud> log: ;_;
[21:52] <ToAruShiroiNeko> highest bidder gets it
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> You're a vampire, and yet, you suck.
[21:52] <ToAruShiroiNeko> vampires dotn suck, they glitter
[21:52] <lucasoutloud> OHHHHH
[21:52] <Pilif12p> omg
[21:52] <Pilif12p> i can't think
[21:52] <log> We know.
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> Pilif12p, then go get busy.
[21:52] <Pilif12p> how many beats is a dotted eighth note?
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> .
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> .
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> .
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> .
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> .
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> .
�08[21:52] <Hella_Back> .
[21:52] <Pilif12p> in 4/4 time
[21:52] <log> Hella_Back: Stop that, please.
[21:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Hella_Back stop making fine points
�08[21:53] <Hella_Back> you wanted beats.
[21:53] <log> You can do them on one line.
�08[21:53] * Hella_Back bets log
[21:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Hella_Back try applying com,pression
[21:53] <JoeGazz84> Pilif12p: I believe 1
[21:53] <mindspillage> Pilif12p: 3/4 of a beat.
�08[21:53] * Hella_Back has beats.
[21:53] <ToAruShiroiNeko> log btw are you captains log?
�06[21:53] * log has Beats.
[21:53] <log> Audio.
[21:53] <JoeGazz84> Because in 4/4 it's counted as 1-and 2-and 3-and 4-and and an eighth note is the "and" so a dot gives it another "and"
[21:53] <log> ToAruShiroiNeko: Pardon?
�08[21:53] * Hella_Back does too.
�08[21:54] * Hella_Back declares log ☨.
[21:54] <Pilif12p> did my last four lines send?
�08[21:54] <Hella_Back> ☹
[21:54] <Pilif12p> i take that as a ye
[21:54] <Pilif12p> mindspillage, that's what I thought
[21:54] <Pilif12p> i'm playing Hey Jude on my arduino :P
[21:54] <mindspillage> JoeGazz84: it is not 1. A quarter note is 1 beat. A dot adds half of the value of the note on to the end.
[21:54] <Pilif12p> I found some sheet music for it
[21:54] <log> Pilif12p: Hey Jude.
[21:55] <log> Don't be afraid.
[21:55] <log> Okay?
�08[21:55] <Hella_Back> do not be afraid, child.
�08[21:55] <Hella_Back> 
[21:55] <Pilif12p> I won't, log, I won't
[21:55] <JoeGazz84> mindspillage: Oh, you're correct. Thanks for fixing me.
[21:55] <log> Good.
[21:55] <log> I'm counting on you.
�08[21:55] <Hella_Back> 편
[21:55] <Pilif12p> and the enharmonic of an A# is Gb
[21:56] <Pilif12p> no
[21:56] <Pilif12p> just a G?
[21:56] <Pilif12p> hestrdgftdf i haven't touched my instrument in a week and I can't think music
�06[21:56] * log asks Wolfram|Alpha.
[21:56] <log> "Using closest Wolfram|Alpha interpretation: gene an A"
�08[21:56] <Hella_Back> A
[21:56] <log> Thus, the enharmonic of an A# is AAGCTAGCTAGC, according to Wolfram|Alpha.
[21:57] <log> Hope that helps.
[21:57] <lucasoutloud> log: Twinkle is failing on me, so take care of this:
[21:57] <Pilif12p> log, yeah, T doesn't exist
[21:57] <mindspillage> Pilif12p: a sharp raises a note... so to find the one that is the same as it, look for a higher note that is lowered... so A#'s enharmonic is Bb.
[21:57] <Pilif12p> Unless you never went from A -> G
[21:57] <log> lucasoutloud: That doesn't exist.
[21:57] <lucasoutloud> log: Oh, nevermind then.
[21:57] <Pilif12p> mindspillage, yeah, that. Thanks
[21:57] <Pilif12p> What do you play?
�08[21:57] -> *Peter-C* GNAA loves you.
[21:57] <Pilif12p> i assume you play an instrument?
[21:58] <jeremyb> Ryulong: fyi, no one spoke in #-ja in your absence (besides the bot)
[21:59] <Pilif12p> oh god, this won't be fun
[21:59] <Pilif12p> i'll just do the main part :P
[21:59] <Ryulong> the nation of Japan is on dipsoluscious vacation this week
�03[21:59] * Guerillero_ ( has joined #wikipedia-en
�03[22:00] * Guerillero_ is now known as Guerillero
�15[22:00] * Guerillero ( Quit (Changing host�)
�03[22:00] * Guerillero (~Gueriller@wikipedia/Guerillero) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:00] <mindspillage> Pilif12p:  yep--bassoon and viola mainly.
�03[22:00] * foks (~joseph@wikipedia/fox) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:00] <lucasoutloud> We need to make a channel for discussing SEGA games.
[22:01] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  which ones?
[22:01] <Pilif12p> Ooh, cool.
[22:01] <lucasoutloud> unfo: The sonic games on Genesis.  But there is already #sega but it seems dead.
�03[22:03] * Ktr101 (183cd9f9@wikipedia/Ktr101) has joined #wikipedia-en
�15[22:03] * Monchoman45 (6c02c3d1@wikia/Monchoman45) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds�)
[22:03] <Pilif12p> log, I need help with math
[22:04] <Pilif12p> wtf does "timeHigh = period / 2 = 1 / (2 * toneFrequency)" mean"
[22:04] <Pilif12p> Looking for timeHigh
[22:04] <Pilif12p> but how the hell do you interpret it
�06[22:05] * log nudges Pilif12p toward the other server in his client.
[22:06] <Banaticus> Pilif12p: what is timeHigh supposed to be? and why are there three equals in that?  I thought you were assigning a variable in programming, but maybe not?
[22:06] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  See _Open Sonic_, .  Version 0.1.4 is playable and fun, but you can't save.  Instead, you can suspend or hibernate your PC.  An unfinished copy of 0.2.0 is available from [[source control]], and you can compile it yourself and play it.  Have you ever seen it before?
[22:06] <unfo> I don't know if they have an IRC channel.  If they do, then maybe off-topic Sonic-on-Genesis discussions can go there.
[22:06] <Pilif12p> Banaticus, I am
[22:06] <lucasoutloud> unfo: Never heard of it.
[22:07] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  Let me know what you think of it.  What did you want to discuss specifically BTW?
[22:07] <Banaticus> well, the 2 = 1 will fail when you try to compile it in the languages I'm familiar with -- what are you using?
[22:07] <lucasoutloud> unfo: I just like discussing sonic.  That is what my friend Felicia and I do.
[22:07] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  What do you talk about?
[22:08] <lucasoutloud> unfo: We just talk about how much we like it, discuss the new games, the old games, the manga, etc.
[22:08] <lucasoutloud> Oh, and the cheesy as hell cartoon that I love so much.
[22:08] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  talk is overrated.  Game development has far more possibilities in it.  :)
[22:09] <lucasoutloud> So, what makes this game better than the genesis games I can boot up right now?
[22:09] <{Soap}> hm
[22:09] <{Soap}> I remember a game engine named OpenSonic from about 7 years ago
[22:10] <{Soap}> probably entirely unrelated
[22:10] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  Have you beaten all the Genesis Sonic games already?
[22:10] <lucasoutloud> unfo: I haven't beaten them but I've gotten close.
[22:10] <{Soap}> Open Surge is written from the ground up in C language using the Allegro game programming library for graphics, sounds, player input and timers. It's being developed since August 2008. Development occurs collaboratively in our community forums.  <--- yeah that proves it's different
[22:10] <unfo> {Soap}:  link to the old OpenSonic please?
�15[22:10] * Sp33dyphil (1b209a83@wikipedia/Sp33dyphil) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds�)
[22:10] <{Soap}> its probably gone
[22:11] <{Soap}> but it was a fork of a project called OpenZelda which was all about re-creating Link to the Past
[22:11] <{Soap}> and that project was renamed to OpenLegends
[22:11] <lucasoutloud> {Soap}: Why bother when it was remade on GBA?
[22:11] <{Soap}> I mean, as an engine
[22:12] <lucasoutloud> Or was that another Zelda...?
[22:12] <{Soap}> people would make dozens of games that look like LTTP but have different enemies, levels, etc
[22:12] <{Soap}> I made one
[22:12] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  Open Sonic will provide something new to play through.  In 0.1.4, if you go to "Extras" then the "Extra levels" (?) quest, you'll find a very challenging campaign, including a level that, as far as I've seen, contains no rings, only shields.
[22:13] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  ah, I found a link to pre-compiled copies of 0.2.0, so you can just download, unpack, and play.
[22:13] <lucasoutloud> unfo: Aww shit sounds cool.
[22:13] <unfo> lucasoutloud:  have you ever played any Sonic fangames before?
[22:14] <lucasoutloud> unfo: I think once or twice, but they were flash games.
Session Close: Mon Dec 26 22:15:10 2011