Changes

==Wikipedia & Political Agendas -The Balkans==

== -The Balkans==

Moved to [[User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas]]

Moved to [[User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas]]

: Actually (though the above is useful) do you have links to the articles that are problematic?  I looked at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito article on Tito] and there are clear problems there.  Is there anything else? Thanks [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 01:56, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

: Actually (though the above is useful) do you have links to the articles that are problematic?  I looked at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito article on Tito] and there are clear problems there.  Is there anything else? Thanks [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 01:56, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

:: Hi!  So, Wiki links that that are problematic concerning the article. Hmmm, I like that. I'll get back to you on that one.  Thanks for the tip. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 02:49, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

:: Hi!  So, Wiki links that are problematic concerning the article. Hmmm, I like that. I'll get back to you on that one.  Thanks for the tip. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 02:49, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::: No, other articles in ''Wikipedia'' - or is it just the Tito one? Let's start with which specific Wikipedia articles you have a problem with :-) [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 02:51, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::: No, other articles in ''Wikipedia'' - or is it just the Tito one? Let's start with which specific Wikipedia articles you have a problem with :-) [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 02:51, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

:::: Ok! The Tito one, for now, as an example.[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 02:54, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

:::: Ok! The Tito one, for now, as an example.[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 02:54, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

: You are 'Sir Floyd', correct?  And the other one is 'Direktor'.  It looks to me as though there is an issue here (forgive me, I generally avoid political articles as they are so inherently difficult to make NPOV.  I agree with you, using standard reference sources as a benchmark is the only way to achieve neutrality. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 03:51, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

: You are 'Sir Floyd', correct?  And the other one is 'Direktor'.  It looks to me as though there is an issue here (forgive me, I generally avoid political articles as they are so inherently difficult to make NPOV.  I agree with you, using standard reference sources as a benchmark is the only way to achieve neutrality. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 03:51, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::Thanks! ''"Sir Floyd is not a bad guy once you get to know him."'' I'm lucky they didn't block me. They launched a huge attack against me once they saw that I wanted to change their Broz article. Director is their leader. I was suspicious from day one, but as you say "political articles as they are so inherently difficult to make NPOV" and I agree. I've been to Croatia many times, so I have a personal experience from that region. They seem to want to make Wikipedia to read like the propaganda of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia.  My main worry is the power of Wikipedia to inform. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 05:39, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::Thanks! ''"Sir Floyd is not a bad guy once you get to know him."'' I'm lucky they didn't block me. They launched a huge attack against me once they saw that I wanted to change their Broz article. Director is their leader. I was suspicious from day one, but as you say "political articles are so inherently difficult to make NPOV" and I agree. I've been to Croatia many times, so I have a personal experience from that region. They seem to want to make Wikipedia to read like the propaganda of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia.  My main worry is the power of Wikipedia to inform. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 05:39, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

Ockham are you on line?[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 07:57, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

Ockham are you on line?[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 07:57, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::: Go ahead I put it there so we can both work on it.[[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:28, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::: Go ahead I put it there so we can both work on it.[[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:28, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::::Thanks! We might have to put old Draza Mihailović on the bottom of the article (in terms of importance), because he switch sides during WW2 (but he still aided Allied Pilots), if that's Ok. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 08:40, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::::Thanks! We might have to put old Draza Mihailović on the bottom of the article (in terms of importance), because he switched sides during WW2 (but he still aided Allied Pilots), if that's Ok. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 08:40, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::::: I am just collecting material for the moment.  Mihailović seems to have been guilty of something, but it is by no means as clear cut as the Wikipedia article suggests.  Sources are ''everything''.  I might split this into several articles. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:50, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

::::: I am just collecting material for the moment.  Mihailović seems to have been guilty of something, but it is by no means as clear cut as the Wikipedia article suggests.  Sources are ''everything''.  I might split this into several articles. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:50, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

Cult of Personality is Wiki's (Tito's) article greatest weakness. His ''"Cult of Personality"'' is well documented (and it is quite disconcerting). You have to understand that their is a lot of '''feel good''' info written  on him, until the collapse of Yugoslavia. He played a major role in Cold War propaganda, but sadly turn out to be political spin.  I'm going to add a few more references then I'm of to bed.  At the moment I'm drinking a nice Aussie red wine. Cheers & Thank You! [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 09:26, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

Cult of Personality is Wiki (Tito's) article's greatest weakness. His ''"Cult of Personality"'' is well documented (and it is quite disconcerting). You have to understand that there is a lot of '''feel good''' info written  on him, until the collapse of Yugoslavia. He played a major role in Cold War propaganda, but it sadly turned out to be political spin.  I'm going to add a few more references then I'm off to bed.  At the moment I'm drinking a nice Aussie red wine. Cheers & Thank You! [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 09:26, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

: Mmm my favourite.  Might have some myself tonight in London. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 09:31, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

: Mmm my favourite.  Might have some myself tonight in London. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 09:31, 3 October 2009 (PDT)

Hi Ockham, are you not on line?  Thanks for the message and your work, it's looking great. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 07:57, 4 October 2009 (PDT)

Hi Ockham, are you on line?  Thanks for the message and your work, it's looking great. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 07:57, 4 October 2009 (PDT)

: I'm here (for a bit). As I said, follow my contributions to see if I am on line. Thanks for a great lead. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 07:58, 4 October 2009 (PDT)

: I'm here (for a bit). As I said, follow my contributions to see if I am on line. Thanks for a great lead. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 07:58, 4 October 2009 (PDT)

:: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, what a wast of''' time'''. Just log of Wikipedia. I must have hit a raw nerve with the "Sources Interlink Attack". Ok  I'll follow up, & get back to you. Are you still in London, I love London. Cheers [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 08:17, 4 October 2009 (PDT)

:: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, what a waste of''' time'''. Just logged off Wikipedia. I must have hit a raw nerve with the "Sources Interlink Attack". Ok  I'll follow up, & get back to you. Are you still in London? I love London. Cheers [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 08:17, 4 October 2009 (PDT)

Hi Ockham, I'll be posting my thoughts on my talk page, so when you got some spare time, check it out. Regards [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 20:28, 5 October 2009 (PDT)

Hi Ockham, I'll be posting my thoughts on my talk page, so when you've got some spare time, check it out. Regards [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 20:28, 5 October 2009 (PDT)