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Revision as of 08:17, 22 July 2008
, 08:17, 22 July 2008→Is NLP a cult?
That was me Comaze before I created an account, I point that out below for the sake of transparency. In one of his seminars Bandler claimed he submitted a doctoral thesis at the USF and was an awarded a PhD from their. He said that we had difficulty finding where to submit his dissertation because he had cut soe many classes. This sent alarm bells ringing in my head -- any one that knows anything about postgraduate study knows that the amount of classes fall the higher you progress. There are classes when you undertsake a PhD, there are only occassional meetings with your supervisor. So I wrote an email to the USF Alumni Society to ask them if a they had ever awarded a doctorate -- honorary or earned -- to a Richard Wayne Bandler. The officer replied that they had no such record. I then went to Proquest\UMI dissertation index -- I found Grinder, he did submit a thesis titled "On Deletion Phenomena" IIRC and he was awarded a doctorate. Bandler does not appear in the Proquest\UMI dissertation index. The email counts as original research and although I can supply the response complete with headers to anyone that's interested it's not suitable for Wikipedia verification puproses. A link to the Proquest\UMI dissertation index -- which I have included in the Bandler article -- should be ok. If Bandler has a doctorate it is neither from a North American university nor is it earned. I could no detail about Bandler's honrary doctorate except rumour that t came from a Continetal European university. Any attempt to solicit detail on alt.psychology.nlp is met with an avalanche of abusive replies. Attempting to verify any of Bandler's claims is strictly ''verboten'' -- the worshippers don't like their idols being tarnished. Regarding Bandler's undergraduate and graduate qualification IIRC he attempted to submit the manuscript of Magic I to the psychology department of USC as his master's thesis. It was rejected because it wasn't entirely his work. He re-worked it and submitted it and was awarded an MA in "Theoretical Psychology". The marketing angle that B&G pursued in promoting NLP wasn't compatible with one of the inventors being a psychology graduate since NLP was touted as a revolutionary breakthrough something altogether different that came from ''outside'' of psychology by two people that supposedly knew nothing of the fields. In his early seminars I have heard Bandler refer to himself as a physicist, an information scientist, a computer programmer, and a mathematician. In "Bandler Doing Bandler" I think he's an "information scientist", in one of his NHR recordings he's physicist (with a special interest in optics, which is the leadin to his pontifications about holographic memoey) and in one of his DHE recordings (IIRC) he's a computer programmer. Can we remove the reference to him as being a mathematician, he is no such thing and their is no evidence that he even took a single unit in math at university. [[User:Flavius vanillus|flavius]] 04:13, 17 December 2005 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Neuro-linguistic_programming&diff=prev&oldid=31695516]
That was me Comaze before I created an account, I point that out below for the sake of transparency. In one of his seminars Bandler claimed he submitted a doctoral thesis at the USF and was an awarded a PhD from their. He said that we had difficulty finding where to submit his dissertation because he had cut soe many classes. This sent alarm bells ringing in my head -- any one that knows anything about postgraduate study knows that the amount of classes fall the higher you progress. There are classes when you undertsake a PhD, there are only occassional meetings with your supervisor. So I wrote an email to the USF Alumni Society to ask them if a they had ever awarded a doctorate -- honorary or earned -- to a Richard Wayne Bandler. The officer replied that they had no such record. I then went to Proquest\UMI dissertation index -- I found Grinder, he did submit a thesis titled "On Deletion Phenomena" IIRC and he was awarded a doctorate. Bandler does not appear in the Proquest\UMI dissertation index. The email counts as original research and although I can supply the response complete with headers to anyone that's interested it's not suitable for Wikipedia verification puproses. A link to the Proquest\UMI dissertation index -- which I have included in the Bandler article -- should be ok. If Bandler has a doctorate it is neither from a North American university nor is it earned. I could no detail about Bandler's honrary doctorate except rumour that t came from a Continetal European university. Any attempt to solicit detail on alt.psychology.nlp is met with an avalanche of abusive replies. Attempting to verify any of Bandler's claims is strictly ''verboten'' -- the worshippers don't like their idols being tarnished. Regarding Bandler's undergraduate and graduate qualification IIRC he attempted to submit the manuscript of Magic I to the psychology department of USC as his master's thesis. It was rejected because it wasn't entirely his work. He re-worked it and submitted it and was awarded an MA in "Theoretical Psychology". The marketing angle that B&G pursued in promoting NLP wasn't compatible with one of the inventors being a psychology graduate since NLP was touted as a revolutionary breakthrough something altogether different that came from ''outside'' of psychology by two people that supposedly knew nothing of the fields. In his early seminars I have heard Bandler refer to himself as a physicist, an information scientist, a computer programmer, and a mathematician. In "Bandler Doing Bandler" I think he's an "information scientist", in one of his NHR recordings he's physicist (with a special interest in optics, which is the leadin to his pontifications about holographic memoey) and in one of his DHE recordings (IIRC) he's a computer programmer. Can we remove the reference to him as being a mathematician, he is no such thing and their is no evidence that he even took a single unit in math at university. [[User:Flavius vanillus|flavius]] 04:13, 17 December 2005 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Neuro-linguistic_programming&diff=prev&oldid=31695516]
== Incivility and personal attacks by Flavius vanillus ==
9) Flavius_vanillus (talk · contribs) has violated Wikipedia:Civility [59] [60], see User_talk:Flavius_vanillus#avoid_personal_remarks. See also [61] [62] [63]
'''Comment by Arbitrators''': A lot of newsnet type spamming too Fred Bauder 15:47, 21 December 2005 (UTC) Your stuff is funny, yes, I enjoy watching Ann Coulter myself, but acting that way is beyond the bounds of Wikipedia. Usenet type spamming is discussing an issue rather than how to write the article. Fred Bauder 00:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Comment by parties:
'''FLAVIUS''': What precisely is "newsnet type spamming"? flavius 13:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
In my defence I'll point out that my incivilities and personal attacks are witty :o) flavius 13:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
The matter of incivility, discourtesy and personal attacks is a pretext for being obstructionist. With the exception of Aaron "Kookla" Kulkis the offending remarks by all parties are anodyne. flavius 13:52, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Fred, you state that "Usenet type spamming is discussing an issue rather than how to write the article". No it isn't. Discussing and issue is just that: discussing and issue and it is a prerequisite to composing an article where there is any contention. Spamming has nothing to do with discussion. Both Usenet and the discussion pages are intended for discussion. Save the term spamming for its proper use, viz. the posting of unsolicited commercial bulk messages. Debating an issue in the discussion area -- even if the discussion has become removed temporarily from the central dispute -- is eminently preferable to unilateral editing which will usually be reverted. Where a zealot or disordered individual appears on the discussion page and/or makes unilateral, uninformed and promotional edits it is necessary -- however tedious -- to squash each assertion, factoid, falsity and flawed argument. To do otherwise would be to practice a form censorship and thereby legitimise corruption of the article made on the pretext of voicing "the truth". Rational discourse with suitable evidence and argument attempts to move a dispute into a justiciable framework and introduce objectivity in place of emoting and subjectivity. I contend that discussing an issue -- and presenting evidence and argument -- has been more effective in connection with this article than all of the arbitrartion thus far. flavius 07:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
'''COMAZE''': In defense of flavius, I think this editor has made some valuable contributions to the article and discussion on both sides of the debate. The occasional personal remark or incivility was out of character. --Comaze 00:46, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
== Is NLP a cult? ==
== Is NLP a cult? ==
