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Headley. I copncur with your concerns and add my concerns. I'm especially concerned with the misinformation contained in the articles regarding the nature of science and the treatment of mental illness that runs counter to fact and government and non-government advocacy campaigns that have been run in most of the English-speaking world over the last decade. In Australia, the Federal and State governments have spent much public funds on advocacy campaigns aimed at encouraging young people (especially girls) to study science and engineering. There is a science museum in the state in which I live that aims to motivate children to become interested and excited about science. The post-modern assertion -- besides being mere assertion -- that there are a plurality of truths and a plurality of sciences, i.e. that truth and fact are socially contructed is socially harmful, in that it discourages the study of science by young people and is mind destroying. There have been many government and non-government campaigns aimed at educating the general public about depression and schizophrenia and the Schizophrenia Fellowship (now called the Mental Health Fellowship) ran several campaigns aimed at dispelling the myths surrounding Schizophrenia. Bateson's double-bind theory of schizophrenia is a myth, it has been disproven (I can supply references). Like Hubbard, Bateson aims to blame schizophrenia on bad parenting: contradictory communications instead of attempted abortions using coat hangers. I implore the mediators, mentors and arbitrators to delete these sprawling -- largely unwatched -- sub-articles. If this be too aggressive a request then please insist on substantiation from verifiable sources. Wikipedia shouldn't be promoting pseudoscience in connection with mental illness, an issue already associated with myths and stigma and it shouldn't be denigrating science -- the engine of the largest economies -- by spreading post-modern nonsense about the topic. [[User:Flavius vanillus|flavius]] 02:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Principles_of_NLP&diff=prev&oldid=39529465]

Headley. I copncur with your concerns and add my concerns. I'm especially concerned with the misinformation contained in the articles regarding the nature of science and the treatment of mental illness that runs counter to fact and government and non-government advocacy campaigns that have been run in most of the English-speaking world over the last decade. In Australia, the Federal and State governments have spent much public funds on advocacy campaigns aimed at encouraging young people (especially girls) to study science and engineering. There is a science museum in the state in which I live that aims to motivate children to become interested and excited about science. The post-modern assertion -- besides being mere assertion -- that there are a plurality of truths and a plurality of sciences, i.e. that truth and fact are socially contructed is socially harmful, in that it discourages the study of science by young people and is mind destroying. There have been many government and non-government campaigns aimed at educating the general public about depression and schizophrenia and the Schizophrenia Fellowship (now called the Mental Health Fellowship) ran several campaigns aimed at dispelling the myths surrounding Schizophrenia. Bateson's double-bind theory of schizophrenia is a myth, it has been disproven (I can supply references). Like Hubbard, Bateson aims to blame schizophrenia on bad parenting: contradictory communications instead of attempted abortions using coat hangers. I implore the mediators, mentors and arbitrators to delete these sprawling -- largely unwatched -- sub-articles. If this be too aggressive a request then please insist on substantiation from verifiable sources. Wikipedia shouldn't be promoting pseudoscience in connection with mental illness, an issue already associated with myths and stigma and it shouldn't be denigrating science -- the engine of the largest economies -- by spreading post-modern nonsense about the topic. [[User:Flavius vanillus|flavius]] 02:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Principles_of_NLP&diff=prev&oldid=39529465]

Please focus on discussing specifics of article content. Wikipedia talk pages are not for long, rambling debates over issues in the abstract. · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 03:08, 14 February 2006 (UTC)  

''Please focus on discussing specifics of article content. Wikipedia talk pages are not for long, rambling debates over issues in the abstract''. · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 03:08, 14 February 2006 (UTC)  

Katefan0. I am focussing on the specifics of the article content -- the issue at hand is the relevance of scientific literature to the sprawling NLP articles. Exchanging assertions will not achieve anything. Is that what you are advocating in the name of specificity? I fail to see how a technical matter can be answered without recourse to explanation. Given that I specifically mention a catalogue of NLP techniques and two researchers I'm struggling to comprehend where the specificity and concreteness is lacking in my response. The false analogy between theology and NLP required answering since this was the justification for the exclusion of relevant literature. Would you have preferred, "No it isn't" as a response? Headley and I have raised several substantive issues concerning evidence or the lack thereof provided for the claims in the NLP articles. I'm at a loss how to understand how perfunctory chastisement -- which a bot can be programmed to perform -- will resolve the matters of contention or produce a worthwhile article. flavius 05:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC)  

Katefan0. I am focussing on the specifics of the article content -- the issue at hand is the relevance of scientific literature to the sprawling NLP articles. Exchanging assertions will not achieve anything. Is that what you are advocating in the name of specificity? I fail to see how a technical matter can be answered without recourse to explanation. Given that I specifically mention a catalogue of NLP techniques and two researchers I'm struggling to comprehend where the specificity and concreteness is lacking in my response. The false analogy between theology and NLP required answering since this was the justification for the exclusion of relevant literature. Would you have preferred, "No it isn't" as a response? Headley and I have raised several substantive issues concerning evidence or the lack thereof provided for the claims in the NLP articles. I'm at a loss how to understand how perfunctory chastisement -- which a bot can be programmed to perform -- will resolve the matters of contention or produce a worthwhile article. flavius 05:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC)  

''That would be my point as well. Focus on the article. Since my mentorship began, the main problem I've seen here and on the other NLP related articles is that again, we're not looking for a discussion about the merits of NLP here. We want to make a good Wikipedia article. Long, rambling looks at what NLP means isn't our purpose. If you want to have that kind of discussion, I'd recommend a message board, not an encyclopedia''. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 13:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)  

''That would be my point as well. Focus on the article. Since my mentorship began, the main problem I've seen here and on the other NLP related articles is that again, we're not looking for a discussion about the merits of NLP here. We want to make a good Wikipedia article. Long, rambling looks at what NLP means isn't our purpose. If you want to have that kind of discussion, I'd recommend a message board, not an encyclopedia''. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 13:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)  

Katefan0 and Woohookitty. I can't say that I understand what you are trying to tell me and I suspect that it may be incomprehensible. You assert, "If you aren't using this talk page to directly discuss proposed changes (or recent changes) to the article itself, then you aren't using this talk page correctly". Isn't requesting the deletion of the articles or requesting that at least substantiating the claims contained therein doing just that? I am addressing the concern of preparing a "good Wikipedia article". Verifiability of content is a pillar of Wikpipedia. I have pointed out where this is lacking in the "NLP Project". Your revulsion towards "abstract ideas" is your problem, not mine. Justification and rebuttal will often entail use of "abstract ideas". Perhaps neither of you are suited for mediation, arbitration and mentorship regarding the article? flavius 08:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Principles_of_NLP&diff=prev&oldid=39711477]

Katefan0 and Woohookitty. I can't say that I understand what you are trying to tell me and I suspect that it may be incomprehensible. You assert, "If you aren't using this talk page to directly discuss proposed changes (or recent changes) to the article itself, then you aren't using this talk page correctly". Isn't requesting the deletion of the articles or requesting that at least substantiating the claims contained therein doing just that? I am addressing the concern of preparing a "good Wikipedia article". Verifiability of content is a pillar of Wikpipedia. I have pointed out where this is lacking in the "NLP Project". Your revulsion towards "abstract ideas" is your problem, not mine. Justification and rebuttal will often entail use of "abstract ideas". Perhaps neither of you are suited for mediation, arbitration and mentorship regarding the article? flavius 08:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Principles_of_NLP&diff=prev&oldid=39711477]