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{{WaterCoolerPages|Technical|The '''technical''' section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Centiare, including [[Centiare:Semantic tagging|semantic tagging]].}}

{{WaterCoolerPages|Technical|The '''technical''' section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Centiare, including [[MyWikiBiz:Semantic tagging|semantic tagging]].}}

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:I hope that this helps answer your question! --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 06:26, 13 January 2007 (PST)

:I hope that this helps answer your question! --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 06:26, 13 January 2007 (PST)

::Sabine is referring to the [[Template:Infobox Company|template]] itself where 'founded' is a required element. As you say, one '''''can still''''' choose whether or not to use a [[Centiare:Semantic_tagging|semantic attribute]] within any of the templates/infoboxes. In this case, founded is required because potential customers typically want to be able to determine the number of years an entity has been in business. I would suggest that Sabine use a general date if a specific date is not available at this time. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:14, 13 January 2007 (PST)

::Sabine is referring to the [[Template:Infobox Company|template]] itself where 'founded' is a required element. As you say, one '''''can still''''' choose whether or not to use a [[MyWikiBiz:Semantic_tagging|semantic attribute]] within any of the templates/infoboxes. In this case, founded is required because potential customers typically want to be able to determine the number of years an entity has been in business. I would suggest that Sabine use a general date if a specific date is not available at this time. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:14, 13 January 2007 (PST)

:::Whoops, I forgot that in some Infoboxes, certain elements are required, or rather, even in their absence of data the field label will still show up.  Yes, it seems that either "living with" the empty appearance of the label, or filling in an estimated date, are the only solutions (other than Centiare modifying the template to not require this field). --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 07:44, 13 January 2007 (PST)

:::Whoops, I forgot that in some Infoboxes, certain elements are required, or rather, even in their absence of data the field label will still show up.  Yes, it seems that either "living with" the empty appearance of the label, or filling in an estimated date, are the only solutions (other than Centiare modifying the template to not require this field). --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 07:44, 13 January 2007 (PST)

==Movie Tags==

==Movie Tags==

OK, here's our movie [[Centiare:ACR]] workspace - who wants to start? Let's use just a regular bulleted list until we reach some type of consensus. At that point, I'll create the actual tags, provide definitions/usage policy, and run some demo ASK queries. Once we have a basic standard, then anyone else ever creating movie info can follow the same methods. Check out [[Attribute:Movie Title]] - this will serve as a useful reference point. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 16:54, 13 February 2007 (PST)

OK, here's our movie [[MyWikiBiz:ACR]] workspace - who wants to start? Let's use just a regular bulleted list until we reach some type of consensus. At that point, I'll create the actual tags, provide definitions/usage policy, and run some demo ASK queries. Once we have a basic standard, then anyone else ever creating movie info can follow the same methods. Check out [[Attribute:Movie Title]] - this will serve as a useful reference point. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 16:54, 13 February 2007 (PST)

Some good tags would be

Some good tags would be

:You are correct - only public domain IP belongs in the Main space. Otherwise, it should be treated as a property page of the rightful legal owner. That isn't to say that one can't create an IMDB type of application - it just means that it can only use PD images/information.

:You are correct - only public domain IP belongs in the Main space. Otherwise, it should be treated as a property page of the rightful legal owner. That isn't to say that one can't create an IMDB type of application - it just means that it can only use PD images/information.

:Now, if something is rightly classified as PD Main space (PD/MS), there's nothing you or I can do about it - that's what [[NPOV]] is all about. (And, we can't redirect PD/MS to Directory/User pages either - that's cheating and will be reversed.) However, to offer an olive branch towards various warring factions competing over certain subjects, we've got [[Centiare:Aficionados]].

:Now, if something is rightly classified as PD Main space (PD/MS), there's nothing you or I can do about it - that's what [[NPOV]] is all about. (And, we can't redirect PD/MS to Directory/User pages either - that's cheating and will be reversed.) However, to offer an olive branch towards various warring factions competing over certain subjects, we've got [[MyWikiBiz:Aficionados]].

:In your case, just like [[boxing]], you can tag both a [[Relation:Subject Interest]] & [[Relation:Contributor To]]. In the case of Nosferatu, you could post up a stub in the MS, list your interests as movies, tag your full-on Nosferatu contribution, and you'd have a nice link back to your protected Directory listing(s). [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 11:58, 14 February 2007 (PST)

:In your case, just like [[boxing]], you can tag both a [[Relation:Subject Interest]] & [[Relation:Contributor To]]. In the case of Nosferatu, you could post up a stub in the MS, list your interests as movies, tag your full-on Nosferatu contribution, and you'd have a nice link back to your protected Directory listing(s). [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 11:58, 14 February 2007 (PST)

OMG, as usual, you're completely correct. More correct than you might think, so I guess it's time to spring a little secret: [[Special:Relations|Relations]] can work both ways ie the [[Relation:Inverse|Inverse]] of each other. For example, [[Relation:Capital Of]] is the inverse of [[Relation:Has Capital]], and vice versa.

OMG, as usual, you're completely correct. More correct than you might think, so I guess it's time to spring a little secret: [[Special:Relations|Relations]] can work both ways ie the [[Relation:Inverse|Inverse]] of each other. For example, [[Relation:Capital Of]] is the inverse of [[Relation:Has Capital]], and vice versa.

So far, we haven't really pursued two-way relations because they can be somewhat redundant. Besides, [[Centiare:ASK]] queries can be run at the  '''''target''''' pages to produce, in effect, a mirror entry. One-way relations work great when we have a pyramid structure roll-ups, like [[Relation:Page Of]] for books @ [[Directory:KJ Kitchens|KJ Kitchens]] or political subdivisions like [[Relation:State Located In]] at [[Directory:California|California]].

So far, we haven't really pursued two-way relations because they can be somewhat redundant. Besides, [[MyWikiBiz:ASK]] queries can be run at the  '''''target''''' pages to produce, in effect, a mirror entry. One-way relations work great when we have a pyramid structure roll-ups, like [[Relation:Page Of]] for books @ [[Directory:KJ Kitchens|KJ Kitchens]] or political subdivisions like [[Relation:State Located In]] at [[Directory:California|California]].

For movies however, we have equal weight between people & movies (more of a 'box-like' structure), so we do need two-way relations like ''Actor In'' at an actor's page and ''Has Actor'' at the movie page. If we don't use inverse relations, then one would need to run an ASK query at either location to get all other relations to that page, BUT they would be dependent on all the information being there. Make sense?

For movies however, we have equal weight between people & movies (more of a 'box-like' structure), so we do need two-way relations like ''Actor In'' at an actor's page and ''Has Actor'' at the movie page. If we don't use inverse relations, then one would need to run an ASK query at either location to get all other relations to that page, BUT they would be dependent on all the information being there. Make sense?

So, IMHO, here's what needs to happen: I went through IMDB and listed all the respective info sections they have for both people & movies. Before I go and create a bunch of semantic tags, I need both of you to understand the technical issues (described above) & get on board with their utilization. I've listed them at [[Centiare:Entertainment Annotation]] in the same order as they appear at IMDB for us to discuss. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 14:18, 14 February 2007 (PST)

So, IMHO, here's what needs to happen: I went through IMDB and listed all the respective info sections they have for both people & movies. Before I go and create a bunch of semantic tags, I need both of you to understand the technical issues (described above) & get on board with their utilization. I've listed them at [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation]] in the same order as they appear at IMDB for us to discuss. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 14:18, 14 February 2007 (PST)

==Simple semantic search==

==Simple semantic search==

:Ow, my head hurts - why do you have to ask such hard questions? Why don't we set up a page for Cher and see how it works? We have a basic [[Template:infobox_Person]] and [[Template:infobox_Personal]] (vital stats) for all individuals. You can see an example of the former at [[Directory:Marilyn Monroe]].

:Ow, my head hurts - why do you have to ask such hard questions? Why don't we set up a page for Cher and see how it works? We have a basic [[Template:infobox_Person]] and [[Template:infobox_Personal]] (vital stats) for all individuals. You can see an example of the former at [[Directory:Marilyn Monroe]].

:As to entertainment credits, we had thought about creating a stand-alone infobox for celebrities (to be used in conjunction with the two above), but held off until we had determined the proper hooks. This would be a good time to go through the [[Centiare:Entertainment Annotation|Entertainment Annotation]] tags and see if they are working in a way that will answer your query.

:As to entertainment credits, we had thought about creating a stand-alone infobox for celebrities (to be used in conjunction with the two above), but held off until we had determined the proper hooks. This would be a good time to go through the [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation|Entertainment Annotation]] tags and see if they are working in a way that will answer your query.

:If we get that settled, then perhaps we can design/meld some sort of infobox to make the presentation look pretty. Would you like to look around WP a little bit to see what they're using? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 07:54, 17 February 2007 (PST)

:If we get that settled, then perhaps we can design/meld some sort of infobox to make the presentation look pretty. Would you like to look around WP a little bit to see what they're using? [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 07:54, 17 February 2007 (PST)

:::Excellent points. I just created [[Attribute:Common_Name]] & [[Attribute:Scientific_Name]]. You can follow the links to the some of the placeholder data. OMG should be able to search for all information related to [[Directory:Cher]] using this attribute.

:::Excellent points. I just created [[Attribute:Common_Name]] & [[Attribute:Scientific_Name]]. You can follow the links to the some of the placeholder data. OMG should be able to search for all information related to [[Directory:Cher]] using this attribute.

:::As far as personal information, we already have [[Template:Infobox Person|Infobox Person]] & [[Template:Infobox Personal|Infobox Personal]] that can handle standard information. We also have [[Centiare:Entertainment Annotation|Entertainment Annotation]] to record & report on any specific nominations, awards, categories, etc. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 10:16, 22 February 2007 (PST)

:::As far as personal information, we already have [[Template:Infobox Person|Infobox Person]] & [[Template:Infobox Personal|Infobox Personal]] that can handle standard information. We also have [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation|Entertainment Annotation]] to record & report on any specific nominations, awards, categories, etc. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 10:16, 22 February 2007 (PST)

==Book ACR Tags==

==Book ACR Tags==

*Reviewed By:=

*Reviewed By:=

:Great list - see book ACRs [[:Category:Books|categorized here]]; note use of relations for authors/publishers. This is similar to [[Centiare:Entertainment Annotation|movie actors/producers]] in that ASK queries will x-reference publications-authors-publishers. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 12:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)

:Great list - see book ACRs [[:Category:Books|categorized here]]; note use of relations for authors/publishers. This is similar to [[MyWikiBiz:Entertainment Annotation|movie actors/producers]] in that ASK queries will x-reference publications-authors-publishers. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 12:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)

==Medical Tags==

==Medical Tags==

OK, here's our medical [[Centiare:ACR]] workspace. Let's use just a regular bulleted list until we reach some type of consensus. At that point, I'll create the actual tags, provide definitions/usage policy, and run some demo ASK queries. Once we have a basic standard, then anyone else ever creating medical info can follow the same methods. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:31, 13 February 2007 (PST)

OK, here's our medical [[MyWikiBiz:ACR]] workspace. Let's use just a regular bulleted list until we reach some type of consensus. At that point, I'll create the actual tags, provide definitions/usage policy, and run some demo ASK queries. Once we have a basic standard, then anyone else ever creating medical info can follow the same methods. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:31, 13 February 2007 (PST)

==How do our Attributes and Relations stack up?==

==How do our Attributes and Relations stack up?==

As Centiare grows, we should probably keep an eye on not just our number of pages, but on the number of our Attributes and Relations -- not to mention how frequently they're being coded into article pages.  --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 14:52, 21 February 2007 (PST)

As Centiare grows, we should probably keep an eye on not just our number of pages, but on the number of our Attributes and Relations -- not to mention how frequently they're being coded into article pages.  --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 14:52, 21 February 2007 (PST)

:One reason the other SMW sites don't have as many [[Centiare:ACR|ACR]] tags is that they are primarily focused on single topics. Another issue to consider is tag proliferation, even at a limited level, which is characterized by under-utilized ACRs. That is, similar tag names are created in an attempt to provide differentiation in lieu of categories, so the actual usage per tag is low. And yet one more thing is many of the ACRs are red-linked ie there aren't any actual page value assigned to the tags.

:One reason the other SMW sites don't have as many [[MyWikiBiz:ACR|ACR]] tags is that they are primarily focused on single topics. Another issue to consider is tag proliferation, even at a limited level, which is characterized by under-utilized ACRs. That is, similar tag names are created in an attempt to provide differentiation in lieu of categories, so the actual usage per tag is low. And yet one more thing is many of the ACRs are red-linked ie there aren't any actual page value assigned to the tags.

:The true test of effective use of tags is topic specificity, commonality (within groupings), category differentiation, and actual page values. It's a sure sign things are out of whack if any of these characteristics appear to be out of balance. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:42, 21 February 2007 (PST)

:The true test of effective use of tags is topic specificity, commonality (within groupings), category differentiation, and actual page values. It's a sure sign things are out of whack if any of these characteristics appear to be out of balance. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:42, 21 February 2007 (PST)

==Extensions==

==Extensions==

Centiare supports a full range of [[Centiare:Extensions|audio, video, widget, social bookmarking]], etc extensions that can be included within Directory listings. Here's a brief list and one in action:

Centiare supports a full range of [[MyWikiBiz:Extensions|audio, video, widget, social bookmarking]], etc extensions that can be included within Directory listings. Here's a brief list and one in action:

<ASK format="ul">

<ASK format="ul">

[[Page Of::<q>[[Centiare:Extensions]]</q>]]

[[Page Of::<q>[[MyWikiBiz:Extensions]]</q>]]

</ASK>

</ASK>