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, 18:13, 5 July 2015Created page with "partial <pre> Session Start: Sun Jul 05 00:00:00 2015 Session Ident: #wikipedia-en [00:00:42] * SuicidalZerg (~SuicidalZ@wikipedia/The-Thing-That-Should-Not-Be) has joined #wi..."
partial
<pre>
Session Start: Sun Jul 05 00:00:00 2015
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
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[00:17:43] <ZeroSerenity> Oh good. I've got something to look forward to deflecting this month: https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/3c53da/jordan_owen_announces_the_premiere_of_the/
[00:19:44] <nakon> reddit is still a thing?
[00:20:02] <IDoH> Very much so
[00:20:24] <nakon> I thought they shut everything down after the victoria thing
[00:21:06] <ZeroSerenity> I'm just looking forward to the miyad of people trying to shoehorn in this "documentary" into one of the articles I'm "guarding."
[00:21:32] <nakon> or you could not "guard" articles...
[00:21:54] <nakon> they're not your articles.
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[00:23:34] <ZeroSerenity> Never said they were. The whole guarding thing is just basically a deflection of people attempting to use youtube as RS.
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[00:24:14] <nakon> if you're trying to influence a POV on an article, that's very forbidden.
[00:24:42] <git> IDoH: they were obviously a VOA, why wait?
[00:25:10] <IDoH> git: What are you talking about?
[00:26:02] <IDoH> nakon: One can guard against vandalism.
[00:26:32] <nakon> sure, but what they suggested was close to POV edits
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[00:27:25] <Pheeps> what Ellen Pao did was plain old censure
[00:27:38] <nakon> then go to ##reddit plz
[00:27:44] <IDoH> I don't think ZeroSerenity ever said anything to that effect.
[00:28:11] <nakon> IDoH: then it'll be reflected in their edits on-wiki :)
[00:28:18] <IDoH> True
[00:29:06] <ZeroSerenity> 17 archived talk pages of raving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Anita_Sarkeesian
[00:32:35] <ZeroSerenity> A lot of that is people trying to inject something that lacks RS. That's my "guarding".
[00:36:32] <nakon> as mentioned on the talk page, any uninvolved administrator may impose discretionary sanctions on any editor editing these pages.
[00:36:55] <nakon> please ensure that your edits are in-line with policy.
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[01:38:39] <Pheeps> With all due respect, the Wikibooks user interface "Create a Collection" is sheer idiocy. An entire webpage of instructions to say "click on 'Create a collection'", followed by another webpage full of instructions to say "click on 'Add this category'" ... while that link is NONEXISTING!
[01:38:55] <Pheeps> A veritable disaster of a user interface, unusable.
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[01:54:44] <Sri_Designer> Pheeps which is this ineffable "With all due respect" that you talk about? Or are you just being formally meaningless for the greater good?
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[02:06:27] <Pheeps> there is no blinder man than the one that refuses to see.
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[02:32:58] <SamB_7> I think the question is "what respect exatly do you think is due?"
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[03:25:29] <Sri_Designer> Pheeps it's amusing that you talk in fortuneCookie. I for myself took issue not to the merit of your complaint, but the frilly prepandage of it.
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[03:47:49] <PontoCom_BR> hello.
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[03:52:31] <{Soap}> hi
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[04:29:49] <MJ94> {Soap}: hi
[04:33:02] <ObsequiousNewt> guys
[04:33:23] <ObsequiousNewt> there was so much vandalism on the enwiktionary RC feed it took me a whole five minutes to revert it all
[04:34:56] <ZeroSerenity> https://www.facebook.com/ZeroSerenity/videos/10154002924699992/
[04:35:58] <{Soap}> hi MJ94, hi Newt
[04:36:13] <ZeroSerenity> Hey soap.
[04:36:21] <{Soap}> oh awesome video ZeroSerenity
[04:36:34] <{Soap}> i tried videoing fireworks once and it was basically unusable
[04:36:48] <ZeroSerenity> That was from my phone of all things.
[04:36:55] <{Soap}> really? i was gonna assume it wasnt
[04:37:02] <{Soap}> my smartphone was no good at that
[04:37:18] <{Soap}> i think only thing i can say is i was furhter waway from the fireworks then you were
[04:38:24] <{Soap}> yeah, (me looks at old video) there were also cars in the way which may've fooled the camera into thinking iwas trying to record the cars
[04:38:35] <{Soap}> but still, really good video
[04:39:14] <{Soap}> i missed the fireworks this year, but probably wouldnve gone anyway
[04:39:45] <foks> happy america day, america
[04:40:22] <foks> walked past a lot of people setting up tents along the waterfront here in San Francisco
[04:40:35] <foks> presumably all going to be disappointed that it's cloudy as fuck
[04:41:08] <ZeroSerenity> It was torrenting this afternoon. Cleared up just in time.
[04:41:20] <GorillaWarfare> There was a torrential downpour here last year and they had to start/stop them earl
[04:41:23] <GorillaWarfare> y
[04:41:24] <GorillaWarfare> Luckily this year was nice and clear
[04:42:40] <foks> I do hear plenty of fireworks though
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[04:44:33] <{Soap}> lol
[04:44:42] <{Soap}> its cloudy here too and they did it anyway
[04:44:48] <{Soap}> foggy, even
[04:45:02] <{Soap}> like i had to put my wipers on all the way home
[04:45:07] <{Soap}> people'll still blow up fireworks
[04:45:23] <{Soap}> wait, i didnt know you moved to San Francisco
[04:46:12] <{Soap}> well the weather, i imagine, is not that different than Scotland
[04:47:03] <foks> {Soap}, I'm visiting
[04:47:09] <foks> only here a couple weeks
[04:47:16] <foks> :)
[04:47:35] <foks> but yeah, weather is pretty mediocre
[04:47:36] <{Soap}> ok
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[04:48:39] <{Soap}> hi anyibel
[04:48:39] <foks> it was really nice this afternoon,
[04:48:51] <foks> but yeah, tonight it's misty and horrible
[04:48:58] <foks> so I guess much like scotland
[04:50:03] <{Soap}> people see mto like the fog
[04:50:25] <foks> not too sure why
[04:50:34] <foks> it looks pretty cool to see it roll in
[04:50:39] <foks> but walking through it sucks
[04:51:50] <PontoCom_BR> {Soap}: hi.
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[05:02:19] <comets> lol
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[05:30:55] <midgetpower> Heh. A bullwhip apparently is made from leather pieces that've been twirled or something. I always thought it was (largely) an actual bull's tail (at least for the end). That's stupid, I guess.
[05:31:03] <midgetpower> You *use* it for bulls, I guess is the point of the name.
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[05:34:13] <closedmouth> midgetpower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiVmFiOecRg
[05:34:45] <Sir_Designer__> foks, are you in SF only, or did you get to see vicinity, like up and down the coast?
[05:35:02] <foks> the former
[05:35:24] <Sir_Designer__> did you walk hte golden gate bridge?
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[05:36:26] <foks> did it last time I was here :D
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[05:36:51] <Sir_Designer__> no reason to do it twice, unless for daytime and nighttime
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[06:45:42] <PontoCom_BR> bye, people.
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[06:59:07] <Chess> what are these major events on enwiki
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[07:05:13] <midgetpower> closedmouth: !
[07:07:58] <closedmouth> yes?
[07:08:27] <midgetpower> I just made a "signal of life" to acknowledge the video link.
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[07:39:58] <Cncmaster> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Cliff1911.png O.O
[07:40:07] <Cncmaster> I'm.....speechless
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[08:03:36] <ToAruShiroiNeko> http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150704104011-greek-protest-exlarge-169.jpg <- is the riot police holding a foldable chair
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[13:23:41] <elee> got a question for you all - is there a list of reliable sources?
[13:23:43] <elee> e.g.
[13:24:12] <elee> if I see a reference to nytimes, assuming the nytimes link is about the article, then its good
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[13:53:28] <Qcoder00> I'm about to get annoyed with people
[13:53:52] <Qcoder00> Especially the cretin on YouTube whose posted a 3 hour tinfoilt hat video about how nuclear warhead test footage is all faked by "THEM"
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[13:56:59] <Qcoder00> <seethe>
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[15:06:46] <ToAruShiroiNeko> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupou_VI#Honours :o
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[16:07:07] <ncl> If there's a "Failed to parse (Cannot store math image on filesystem.)" on an article, what do I do about that?
[16:07:18] <ToAruShiroiNeko> link me to it
[16:07:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> :)
[16:07:40] <ncl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base64#Padding
[16:09:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I'll report it at #wikimedia-tech
[16:09:21] <ncl> Is it there for you too or is that just a thing on my side
[16:09:26] <ncl> oh
[16:09:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko> no I too get an error
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[16:09:32] <ncl> thanks
[16:12:12] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I managed to fix it
[16:12:28] <ToAruShiroiNeko> with https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Base64&action=purge
[16:12:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko> &action=purge will re-render the page for you
[16:12:52] <ToAruShiroiNeko> does not always work well with templates mind you - particularly if they are nested
[16:12:59] <ncl> ah
[16:13:00] <ncl> neat
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[17:44:23] <geniice> Results published by the interior ministry showed about 60% of those whose votes had been counted voting "No", against some 40% voting "Yes".
[17:44:28] <geniice> its happening
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[17:49:53] <enterprisey> Just used Visual Editor to add some refs
[17:49:58] <enterprisey> it was so much fun
[17:50:01] <enterprisey> (no sarcasm)
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[17:50:13] <git> because i'm an ignorant american, what happens now?
[17:51:30] <git> what i understand is that Greece made a bunch of debt that they can't pay back, and other countries have basically lost faith that they'll be able to, so they were voting on a proposal for a bailout of some sort by the IMF/EU?
[17:51:54] <geniice> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_photography gets a bunch more material
[17:52:06] <{soap|bed}> aww
[17:52:17] <{soap|bed}> greece is now a thrid world country?
[17:52:55] <geniice> git basically yes. What probably happens now is that they leave the euro and suffer massive inflation of whatever new currency they issue
[17:53:30] <ToAruShiroiNeko> %60,30
[17:53:45] <ToAruShiroiNeko> v %39,70
[17:54:01] <geniice> depending on how much they try and prop up the pensions they either end up with say 90% inflation and a bunch of dead pensioners or 200% inflation and everyone under the age of 40 leaving the country
[17:54:07] <{soap|bed}> yay
[17:54:15] <git> how will leaving the euro change things?
[17:54:17] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice its not that simple.
[17:54:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git for once consider yourself as an individual
[17:54:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko> where would you go to borrow money
[17:54:51] <ToAruShiroiNeko> How much money can you borrow?
[17:55:23] <geniice> git they get a currency that they can print. which means that they can spend money without borrowing. This will cause inflation and devaluation of the currency but that will make anything they sell to non greeks cheaper so more people will buy their stuff
[17:55:24] <git> $5,500 according to the department of education
[17:56:05] <git> geniice: that seems like a terrible idea...
[17:56:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git okay say you have taken $5,500 debt and when your first installment came you did not pay
[17:56:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko> what would happen?
[17:57:03] <git> that's a good question...
[17:57:04] <ToAruShiroiNeko> you could borrow some money to pay the installment adding part of your salary to it
[17:57:12] <geniice> git its a great idea if you export enough stuff. You get a bunch of economic growth out of increased exports and you can channel money to those parts of the economy that will cause the greatest increase in economic activity
[17:57:33] <geniice> git problem is greece doesn't really export enough stuff
[17:57:35] <git> geniice: but is greece really a country that exports a lot?
[17:57:40] <git> ha
[17:57:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Euro's value is backed by countries like Netherlands, Spain, Italy, France and Germany
[17:58:04] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git Greece is a touristic heaven mainly
[17:58:05] <geniice> git some olive oil. Some tourism. its something. Not enough
[17:58:28] <geniice> git oh and a bunch of shipping firms are owned by greece but they don't pay taxes
[17:58:32] <geniice> greeks
[17:58:32] <ToAruShiroiNeko> there isnt that much demand for greek oil, its not something they are that known for
[17:58:56] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice all their ships are registered to non-eu countries in the pacific :p
[17:59:04] <git> ohhh
[17:59:25] <git> so they're going through deflation with the euro right now?
[17:59:30] <geniice> ToAruShiroiNeko also libera
[17:59:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko> liberia? pffft
[17:59:55] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git so in the hypothetical scenario if you do not pay your debt back debt collectors would come by and take your tv and car etc
[18:00:00] <geniice> git eh probably. Overal the euro is running at a very low level of inflation
[18:00:02] <ToAruShiroiNeko> if you do not pay a few installments
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[18:00:08] <ToAruShiroiNeko> for a country debt collectors do not exist
[18:00:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko> but if you default on your debt no one will owe you money
[18:00:24] <ToAruShiroiNeko> because they dont expect you to pay back
[18:00:46] <ToAruShiroiNeko> in other words you end up being alon with your naitonal debt unable to borrow anymore
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[18:01:12] <ToAruShiroiNeko> so when a citizen goes to a bank to borrow money, because the bank itself has no way of borrwing it from someone else there is no money to borrow
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[18:02:18] <geniice> git so overal staying in the euro was going to suck for greece but leaving has a good chance of being worse
[18:02:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git the way countries are run is that you borrow money and use it in such a manner that it generates enough wealth to pay off the installment.
[18:02:42] <git> geniice: so either way they're fucked
[18:02:44] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice greece have had problems with euro since day 1
[18:02:54] <geniice> git well yes
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[18:03:05] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I know what happened in greece in 2002. Prices skyrocketed
[18:03:11] <ToAruShiroiNeko> buying power diminished
[18:04:01] <geniice> git one thing greeks do have is free movement with the EU. So a lot of working age people may move to other EU countries. Like the UK
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[18:05:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice that can change though
[18:05:36] <geniice> not in the short term
[18:06:04] <geniice> does anyone know anything about how well greeks get on with poles?
[18:06:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I dont know, EU has a way of deporting people if too many unemployed comes with it
[18:06:19] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice greeks on poles?
[18:06:22] <ToAruShiroiNeko> O_O
[18:06:31] <geniice> greeks and polish people
[18:06:54] <ToAruShiroiNeko> OH
[18:06:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko> >_<
[18:07:02] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I think they are ok
[18:07:07] <ToAruShiroiNeko> similar religions beliefs and all IIRC
[18:07:15] <ToAruShiroiNeko> well semi-similar
[18:07:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko> poland is 90% catholic
[18:08:28] <ToAruShiroiNeko> hmm a lot fewer orthodox than I thought
[18:08:57] <geniice> well if greeks want to come to the UK they had better be able to get on with poles
[18:09:10] <git> so overall other EU countries might be helped, but might be hurt by it
[18:09:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git all eu countries have some unemployment
[18:09:51] <git> if greeks move to other countries there's greater demand in those countries, but then chances are they're not exactly in great shape financially anyway
[18:10:16] <geniice> git eh there is some worry over what it will do to the stability of the euro and some banks will take a hit but all this has been prepared for over the last couple of years
[18:10:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice for the past couple of years greek debt was out sourced to IMF etc
[18:10:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko> instead of countries like germany or france
[18:10:59] <git> i'm not really familiar with how the economic system works outside the US
[18:11:13] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git clearly it works just as poorly :)
[18:11:28] <geniice> git Eh the UK could probably do with more cheap workers. We are running out of Romanians.
[18:11:29] <git> i have a basic understanding of macroecon within the US
[18:12:10] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git ok if US needs more money there are two options
[18:12:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> 1) print more money, 2) borrow money
[18:12:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko> printing more money makes all the money in the circulation that much worthless
[18:12:48] <ToAruShiroiNeko> so you may be holding 1$ but you could buy less with it
[18:13:00] <ToAruShiroiNeko> price of everything increases hence inflation
</pre>
<pre>
Session Start: Sun Jul 05 00:00:00 2015
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
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[00:17:43] <ZeroSerenity> Oh good. I've got something to look forward to deflecting this month: https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/3c53da/jordan_owen_announces_the_premiere_of_the/
[00:19:44] <nakon> reddit is still a thing?
[00:20:02] <IDoH> Very much so
[00:20:24] <nakon> I thought they shut everything down after the victoria thing
[00:21:06] <ZeroSerenity> I'm just looking forward to the miyad of people trying to shoehorn in this "documentary" into one of the articles I'm "guarding."
[00:21:32] <nakon> or you could not "guard" articles...
[00:21:54] <nakon> they're not your articles.
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[00:23:34] <ZeroSerenity> Never said they were. The whole guarding thing is just basically a deflection of people attempting to use youtube as RS.
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[00:24:14] <nakon> if you're trying to influence a POV on an article, that's very forbidden.
[00:24:42] <git> IDoH: they were obviously a VOA, why wait?
[00:25:10] <IDoH> git: What are you talking about?
[00:26:02] <IDoH> nakon: One can guard against vandalism.
[00:26:32] <nakon> sure, but what they suggested was close to POV edits
[00:27:25] * NotASpy (~chatzilla@wikimedia/Nick) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[00:27:25] <Pheeps> what Ellen Pao did was plain old censure
[00:27:38] <nakon> then go to ##reddit plz
[00:27:44] <IDoH> I don't think ZeroSerenity ever said anything to that effect.
[00:28:11] <nakon> IDoH: then it'll be reflected in their edits on-wiki :)
[00:28:18] <IDoH> True
[00:29:06] <ZeroSerenity> 17 archived talk pages of raving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Anita_Sarkeesian
[00:32:35] <ZeroSerenity> A lot of that is people trying to inject something that lacks RS. That's my "guarding".
[00:36:32] <nakon> as mentioned on the talk page, any uninvolved administrator may impose discretionary sanctions on any editor editing these pages.
[00:36:55] <nakon> please ensure that your edits are in-line with policy.
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[01:38:39] <Pheeps> With all due respect, the Wikibooks user interface "Create a Collection" is sheer idiocy. An entire webpage of instructions to say "click on 'Create a collection'", followed by another webpage full of instructions to say "click on 'Add this category'" ... while that link is NONEXISTING!
[01:38:55] <Pheeps> A veritable disaster of a user interface, unusable.
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[01:54:44] <Sri_Designer> Pheeps which is this ineffable "With all due respect" that you talk about? Or are you just being formally meaningless for the greater good?
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[02:06:27] <Pheeps> there is no blinder man than the one that refuses to see.
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[02:32:58] <SamB_7> I think the question is "what respect exatly do you think is due?"
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[03:25:29] <Sri_Designer> Pheeps it's amusing that you talk in fortuneCookie. I for myself took issue not to the merit of your complaint, but the frilly prepandage of it.
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[03:47:49] <PontoCom_BR> hello.
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[03:52:31] <{Soap}> hi
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[04:29:49] <MJ94> {Soap}: hi
[04:33:02] <ObsequiousNewt> guys
[04:33:23] <ObsequiousNewt> there was so much vandalism on the enwiktionary RC feed it took me a whole five minutes to revert it all
[04:34:56] <ZeroSerenity> https://www.facebook.com/ZeroSerenity/videos/10154002924699992/
[04:35:58] <{Soap}> hi MJ94, hi Newt
[04:36:13] <ZeroSerenity> Hey soap.
[04:36:21] <{Soap}> oh awesome video ZeroSerenity
[04:36:34] <{Soap}> i tried videoing fireworks once and it was basically unusable
[04:36:48] <ZeroSerenity> That was from my phone of all things.
[04:36:55] <{Soap}> really? i was gonna assume it wasnt
[04:37:02] <{Soap}> my smartphone was no good at that
[04:37:18] <{Soap}> i think only thing i can say is i was furhter waway from the fireworks then you were
[04:38:24] <{Soap}> yeah, (me looks at old video) there were also cars in the way which may've fooled the camera into thinking iwas trying to record the cars
[04:38:35] <{Soap}> but still, really good video
[04:39:14] <{Soap}> i missed the fireworks this year, but probably wouldnve gone anyway
[04:39:45] <foks> happy america day, america
[04:40:22] <foks> walked past a lot of people setting up tents along the waterfront here in San Francisco
[04:40:35] <foks> presumably all going to be disappointed that it's cloudy as fuck
[04:41:08] <ZeroSerenity> It was torrenting this afternoon. Cleared up just in time.
[04:41:20] <GorillaWarfare> There was a torrential downpour here last year and they had to start/stop them earl
[04:41:23] <GorillaWarfare> y
[04:41:24] <GorillaWarfare> Luckily this year was nice and clear
[04:42:40] <foks> I do hear plenty of fireworks though
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[04:44:33] <{Soap}> lol
[04:44:42] <{Soap}> its cloudy here too and they did it anyway
[04:44:48] <{Soap}> foggy, even
[04:45:02] <{Soap}> like i had to put my wipers on all the way home
[04:45:07] <{Soap}> people'll still blow up fireworks
[04:45:23] <{Soap}> wait, i didnt know you moved to San Francisco
[04:46:12] <{Soap}> well the weather, i imagine, is not that different than Scotland
[04:47:03] <foks> {Soap}, I'm visiting
[04:47:09] <foks> only here a couple weeks
[04:47:16] <foks> :)
[04:47:35] <foks> but yeah, weather is pretty mediocre
[04:47:36] <{Soap}> ok
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[04:48:39] <{Soap}> hi anyibel
[04:48:39] <foks> it was really nice this afternoon,
[04:48:51] <foks> but yeah, tonight it's misty and horrible
[04:48:58] <foks> so I guess much like scotland
[04:50:03] <{Soap}> people see mto like the fog
[04:50:25] <foks> not too sure why
[04:50:34] <foks> it looks pretty cool to see it roll in
[04:50:39] <foks> but walking through it sucks
[04:51:50] <PontoCom_BR> {Soap}: hi.
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[05:02:19] <comets> lol
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[05:30:55] <midgetpower> Heh. A bullwhip apparently is made from leather pieces that've been twirled or something. I always thought it was (largely) an actual bull's tail (at least for the end). That's stupid, I guess.
[05:31:03] <midgetpower> You *use* it for bulls, I guess is the point of the name.
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[05:34:13] <closedmouth> midgetpower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiVmFiOecRg
[05:34:45] <Sir_Designer__> foks, are you in SF only, or did you get to see vicinity, like up and down the coast?
[05:35:02] <foks> the former
[05:35:24] <Sir_Designer__> did you walk hte golden gate bridge?
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[05:36:26] <foks> did it last time I was here :D
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[05:36:51] <Sir_Designer__> no reason to do it twice, unless for daytime and nighttime
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[06:45:42] <PontoCom_BR> bye, people.
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[06:59:07] <Chess> what are these major events on enwiki
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[07:05:13] <midgetpower> closedmouth: !
[07:07:58] <closedmouth> yes?
[07:08:27] <midgetpower> I just made a "signal of life" to acknowledge the video link.
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[07:39:58] <Cncmaster> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Cliff1911.png O.O
[07:40:07] <Cncmaster> I'm.....speechless
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[08:03:36] <ToAruShiroiNeko> http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150704104011-greek-protest-exlarge-169.jpg <- is the riot police holding a foldable chair
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[13:23:41] <elee> got a question for you all - is there a list of reliable sources?
[13:23:43] <elee> e.g.
[13:24:12] <elee> if I see a reference to nytimes, assuming the nytimes link is about the article, then its good
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[13:53:28] <Qcoder00> I'm about to get annoyed with people
[13:53:52] <Qcoder00> Especially the cretin on YouTube whose posted a 3 hour tinfoilt hat video about how nuclear warhead test footage is all faked by "THEM"
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[13:56:59] <Qcoder00> <seethe>
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[15:06:46] <ToAruShiroiNeko> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupou_VI#Honours :o
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[16:07:07] <ncl> If there's a "Failed to parse (Cannot store math image on filesystem.)" on an article, what do I do about that?
[16:07:18] <ToAruShiroiNeko> link me to it
[16:07:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> :)
[16:07:40] <ncl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base64#Padding
[16:09:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I'll report it at #wikimedia-tech
[16:09:21] <ncl> Is it there for you too or is that just a thing on my side
[16:09:26] <ncl> oh
[16:09:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko> no I too get an error
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[16:09:32] <ncl> thanks
[16:12:12] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I managed to fix it
[16:12:28] <ToAruShiroiNeko> with https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Base64&action=purge
[16:12:40] <ToAruShiroiNeko> &action=purge will re-render the page for you
[16:12:52] <ToAruShiroiNeko> does not always work well with templates mind you - particularly if they are nested
[16:12:59] <ncl> ah
[16:13:00] <ncl> neat
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[17:44:23] <geniice> Results published by the interior ministry showed about 60% of those whose votes had been counted voting "No", against some 40% voting "Yes".
[17:44:28] <geniice> its happening
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[17:49:53] <enterprisey> Just used Visual Editor to add some refs
[17:49:58] <enterprisey> it was so much fun
[17:50:01] <enterprisey> (no sarcasm)
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[17:50:13] <git> because i'm an ignorant american, what happens now?
[17:51:30] <git> what i understand is that Greece made a bunch of debt that they can't pay back, and other countries have basically lost faith that they'll be able to, so they were voting on a proposal for a bailout of some sort by the IMF/EU?
[17:51:54] <geniice> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_photography gets a bunch more material
[17:52:06] <{soap|bed}> aww
[17:52:17] <{soap|bed}> greece is now a thrid world country?
[17:52:55] <geniice> git basically yes. What probably happens now is that they leave the euro and suffer massive inflation of whatever new currency they issue
[17:53:30] <ToAruShiroiNeko> %60,30
[17:53:45] <ToAruShiroiNeko> v %39,70
[17:54:01] <geniice> depending on how much they try and prop up the pensions they either end up with say 90% inflation and a bunch of dead pensioners or 200% inflation and everyone under the age of 40 leaving the country
[17:54:07] <{soap|bed}> yay
[17:54:15] <git> how will leaving the euro change things?
[17:54:17] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice its not that simple.
[17:54:29] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git for once consider yourself as an individual
[17:54:34] <ToAruShiroiNeko> where would you go to borrow money
[17:54:51] <ToAruShiroiNeko> How much money can you borrow?
[17:55:23] <geniice> git they get a currency that they can print. which means that they can spend money without borrowing. This will cause inflation and devaluation of the currency but that will make anything they sell to non greeks cheaper so more people will buy their stuff
[17:55:24] <git> $5,500 according to the department of education
[17:56:05] <git> geniice: that seems like a terrible idea...
[17:56:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git okay say you have taken $5,500 debt and when your first installment came you did not pay
[17:56:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko> what would happen?
[17:57:03] <git> that's a good question...
[17:57:04] <ToAruShiroiNeko> you could borrow some money to pay the installment adding part of your salary to it
[17:57:12] <geniice> git its a great idea if you export enough stuff. You get a bunch of economic growth out of increased exports and you can channel money to those parts of the economy that will cause the greatest increase in economic activity
[17:57:33] <geniice> git problem is greece doesn't really export enough stuff
[17:57:35] <git> geniice: but is greece really a country that exports a lot?
[17:57:40] <git> ha
[17:57:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko> Euro's value is backed by countries like Netherlands, Spain, Italy, France and Germany
[17:58:04] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git Greece is a touristic heaven mainly
[17:58:05] <geniice> git some olive oil. Some tourism. its something. Not enough
[17:58:28] <geniice> git oh and a bunch of shipping firms are owned by greece but they don't pay taxes
[17:58:32] <geniice> greeks
[17:58:32] <ToAruShiroiNeko> there isnt that much demand for greek oil, its not something they are that known for
[17:58:56] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice all their ships are registered to non-eu countries in the pacific :p
[17:59:04] <git> ohhh
[17:59:25] <git> so they're going through deflation with the euro right now?
[17:59:30] <geniice> ToAruShiroiNeko also libera
[17:59:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko> liberia? pffft
[17:59:55] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git so in the hypothetical scenario if you do not pay your debt back debt collectors would come by and take your tv and car etc
[18:00:00] <geniice> git eh probably. Overal the euro is running at a very low level of inflation
[18:00:02] <ToAruShiroiNeko> if you do not pay a few installments
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[18:00:08] <ToAruShiroiNeko> for a country debt collectors do not exist
[18:00:16] <ToAruShiroiNeko> but if you default on your debt no one will owe you money
[18:00:24] <ToAruShiroiNeko> because they dont expect you to pay back
[18:00:46] <ToAruShiroiNeko> in other words you end up being alon with your naitonal debt unable to borrow anymore
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[18:01:12] <ToAruShiroiNeko> so when a citizen goes to a bank to borrow money, because the bank itself has no way of borrwing it from someone else there is no money to borrow
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[18:02:18] <geniice> git so overal staying in the euro was going to suck for greece but leaving has a good chance of being worse
[18:02:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git the way countries are run is that you borrow money and use it in such a manner that it generates enough wealth to pay off the installment.
[18:02:42] <git> geniice: so either way they're fucked
[18:02:44] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice greece have had problems with euro since day 1
[18:02:54] <geniice> git well yes
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[18:03:05] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I know what happened in greece in 2002. Prices skyrocketed
[18:03:11] <ToAruShiroiNeko> buying power diminished
[18:04:01] <geniice> git one thing greeks do have is free movement with the EU. So a lot of working age people may move to other EU countries. Like the UK
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[18:05:23] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice that can change though
[18:05:36] <geniice> not in the short term
[18:06:04] <geniice> does anyone know anything about how well greeks get on with poles?
[18:06:06] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I dont know, EU has a way of deporting people if too many unemployed comes with it
[18:06:19] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice greeks on poles?
[18:06:22] <ToAruShiroiNeko> O_O
[18:06:31] <geniice> greeks and polish people
[18:06:54] <ToAruShiroiNeko> OH
[18:06:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko> >_<
[18:07:02] <ToAruShiroiNeko> I think they are ok
[18:07:07] <ToAruShiroiNeko> similar religions beliefs and all IIRC
[18:07:15] <ToAruShiroiNeko> well semi-similar
[18:07:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko> poland is 90% catholic
[18:08:28] <ToAruShiroiNeko> hmm a lot fewer orthodox than I thought
[18:08:57] <geniice> well if greeks want to come to the UK they had better be able to get on with poles
[18:09:10] <git> so overall other EU countries might be helped, but might be hurt by it
[18:09:39] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git all eu countries have some unemployment
[18:09:51] <git> if greeks move to other countries there's greater demand in those countries, but then chances are they're not exactly in great shape financially anyway
[18:10:16] <geniice> git eh there is some worry over what it will do to the stability of the euro and some banks will take a hit but all this has been prepared for over the last couple of years
[18:10:49] <ToAruShiroiNeko> geniice for the past couple of years greek debt was out sourced to IMF etc
[18:10:58] <ToAruShiroiNeko> instead of countries like germany or france
[18:10:59] <git> i'm not really familiar with how the economic system works outside the US
[18:11:13] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git clearly it works just as poorly :)
[18:11:28] <geniice> git Eh the UK could probably do with more cheap workers. We are running out of Romanians.
[18:11:29] <git> i have a basic understanding of macroecon within the US
[18:12:10] <ToAruShiroiNeko> git ok if US needs more money there are two options
[18:12:20] <ToAruShiroiNeko> 1) print more money, 2) borrow money
[18:12:33] <ToAruShiroiNeko> printing more money makes all the money in the circulation that much worthless
[18:12:48] <ToAruShiroiNeko> so you may be holding 1$ but you could buy less with it
[18:13:00] <ToAruShiroiNeko> price of everything increases hence inflation
</pre>
