User talk:Jon Awbrey

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\(\mathbb{JON\ AWBREY}\)


(We'll get this fixed shortly.) Snerfling 09:51, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Alright, <math> is all set. Let me know if you need any other extensions/features added/enabled. Snerfling 15:51, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Itsa Go ! Thanks ! Jon Awbrey 15:54, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Jon, you might be interested in this update. Snerfling 06:58, 6 June 2007 (PDT)


Jon, looks like you made quite a few friends at Wikipedia. The beauty of Centiare is that the directory space was specifically created for APOV articles. In fact, the whole point of Centiare is as a legitimate means of boosting Google search rankings via semantic tags, scripts, etc. Snerfling 09:51, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: Yes, Wikipedia is such a gawdawful f(r)iendly place. The fact is that I that never wrote any OR, or POV, or ¬VER articles, and never started any disruptive projects, but they have a wacky way of defining all of those words, making their j'accuses, and then "secreting" the evidence of what you actually did. 'Nuff said. I do intend to contribute some slightly more "creative" content here. Just tell me what spaces you think it belongs to. Jon Awbrey 10:14, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Centiare Spaces

Selecting your Centiare space should follow this logical path:

  1. Is the subject a legal entity? If yes, Directory space. If you are the legal agent/owner of the entity (your self, your book, your company), fine and dandy. If you are not the legal agent/owner, be advised that they may come along tomorrow or 6 years from now, and claim the space away from you.
  2. If the subject is not a legal entity, do you want others to edit the topic with you? If yes, Main space. If no, a subpage of some "self owned" Directory space or User space.
I hope that this is clear enough. Our world is a little more nuanced than Wikipedia's, but that's what keeps the edit-warring to an absolute minimum here. At Centiare, you can protect and promote your labors. --MyWikiBiz 10:36, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Main space is reserved for traditional open-access NPOV articles, with all the attendant edit wars, etc. However, there is an exception: if an entry has been formerly published as an academic paper, then it can be protected as an ERB article. We established ERB policy to encourage formal encyclopedias & research publications to publish full articles/excerpts at Centiare. ERB articles are protected from non-author editing + enjoy full copyright protection.
Directory space is APOV by default, plus no one other than original editors (ie "page owners") + Centiare sys ops can edit the pages. Directory listings are no different than if you set up your own wiki - you can doing anything you want within your listing(s), including commercial activities, as long as it's legal.
Here are a couple of examples of on-line virtual businesses running at Centiare:
The advantage of using Centiare's directory space over running your own wiki or using another hosted wiki is that we have all sorts of cool extensions (just gotta get <math> going) & facilities running that Google really seems to love. As stated above, the whole point is to get top search rankings via legitimate means. Snerfling 10:41, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Q & A

JA: Ok, a few questions:

  • I am guessing that "legal entity" includes "intellectual property"?
Yeah, any IP can be placed within sub-pages under either your directory and/or user pages. See the policy & Disney/MM for example.
  • For consideration under ERB, what about papers not previously published in hard print, but posted on the web, under GFDL or SA something-or-other?
We can be flexible; the key is author attribution.
  • What about dual entry, one copy in main, and another protected?
Dual entry is fine - just be aware that non-ERB main space articles are treated no differently than at WP. That's why some posters include summaries under the main space and use aficionados to point to a more complete version under a directory listing.
The key is to understand that with Centiare's semantic tags & other extensions/facilities, it's not necessary to have info posted in the main space like WP. Google scarfs up the sem tag references wherever they're located.

JA: Jon Awbrey 11:00, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Snerfling 11:15, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Content Extension

As mentioned earlier, you can run all sorts of scripts, gadgets, widgets, etc. within your directory listing(s). That means you can import Extensions/RSS feed(s) by subject, run snapshots of email lists, blogs, etc. It's really quite endless - the MediaWiki platform is very powerful. There's a heck of lot more you can do with it than is being utilized at WP. Snerfling 10:49, 17 May 2007 (PDT)


Welcome to centiare the home of a few other disgruntled ex-wikiers. You're obviously a mathematical genius but if you ever need any help with a bit of fancy wiki code feel free to talk page me anytime. It's a pretty tight knit community thus far of about 4 dedicated centiarians. I'm on almost everyday trying to find more ways to pay for college... and maybe a porsche 911 gt3. Cheers Garrett 18:35, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: Hi, and thanks, still getting my feet on the ground right now, but there are a few more adventurous projects that I may want to explore later on. Jon Awbrey 06:36, 18 May 2007 (PDT)


Jon, don't know if you saw this RSS extension, but it's one of the many cool features that allows Centiare to incorporate dynamic content. It may not directly pertain to the main thrust of your recent articles, but it does provide an avenue in which to expand and/or address ongoing developments. Snerfling 10:24, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

ownership template

At the rate your going centiare will have the best mathematical resources on the internet. A suggestion for getting your pages to appear at the top of google is create a simple template box with hyperlinks to everything you own. I've done it with my


template and have had amazing results. Garrett 12:01, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: Hi, Garrett. Thanks for the compliment — I've got a feeling that Mathematica and Planet Math will be way ahead of me for the 4seeable future, but I will keep at it anyway.

Unless they're loaded with the rendering/organizational/SEO extensions we've got at Centiare, I think you might find that you and your friends are going to be impressed with the kinds of things we can do here. Snerfling 17:52, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: I was just now looking at that Directory stuff again, with respect to a paper that I consider more of an Essay or Project than a mainspace article. Can I list it as something like "Directory:Paper_Title" or do I have to make it a subpage of my user page, like "User:Jon_Awbrey/Paper_Title", in order to own it? Jon Awbrey 12:15, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

I never put anything in my user space as i've never seen any of it appear on a search engine. Directory:paper title would work much better and users own both their user space and any directory article they create. And remember to use some seo tricks (keywords, sem tags, interlinking) otherwise your math proofs will get lost in the abyss. (A template at the bottom of all your math pages would be cool, something like an Template:Awbreymath with info inside like - see other contributions by this user. Garrett 12:30, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
and if you're the sole author of pragmatic maxim and others go ahead and own it by moving it to Directory:Pragmatic Maxim then throw your google ads on the side if you want. Garrett 12:32, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
Jon, what you should do is create a directory listing either for yourself or some virtual type of business. IP needs to referenced as sub-pages to actual legal entities. That is, all primary directory listings must have legal standing - property owned by such entities is treated as subsidiary assets.
One of the advantages of creating a virtual enterprise (say, like publishing) is that you can use semantic tags to roll-up pages of 'books' into titles, or roll up titles into a library. Take a look at OmniMediaGroup's or Garrett's stuff for some examples.
The sem tags are not only useful for automating tiresome wiki organizational tasks, but, as Garrett mentioned, Google scarfs them up without peer. Snerfling 14:37, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

More Questions

JA: I created the following directory listings for myself and for papers that are my original IP, but I did not know whether I was supposed to nest them somehow, or just handle that by way of relational links? Jon Awbrey 15:16, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

For organizational purposes, you've basically got two options:
  1. Place each paper as a sub-page directly under your primary listing and summarize them at JA;
  2. Create a sub-page like 'Papers' and then place all the papers as sub-pages there and summarize at Papers.
Here's an example of the first option, and here's an example of the latter. Once you clean it up, I'll come back and delete the 5 directory listings for papers.
Note that the respective ASK queries are referencing each service tagged as Relation:Service Of; if you look at the available Special:Relations, you may wish to use either Relation:Page Of or Relation:Has Page Owner. Snerfling 17:46, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

Touch Up

Hi Jon, looks like you've got a lot accomplished - it looks really good. Here's a couple of pointers to help you finish your organization:

  • We can create two new tags for you: Project Of & Paper Of so that you don't have to use 'common name' and 'key person'; those are generic tags.
  • I noticed that you've properly tagged your main space articles (contributions) & interests. Now all you have to do is drop in the {{aficionados}} template at each article, and paste in an ASK query to x-reference all your articles/interests to your directory listing & all your other articles/interests.

Let me know if you need any help - from what I can tell, you've got this pretty much under control. Snerfling 07:11, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

OK, I went ahead and created Relation:Project Of and Relation:Paper Of, along with Attribute:Project Name and Attribute:Paper Name. I then took the liberty of updating/revising these tags on one of your projects & papers, respectively. You can see the summary ASK queries here and here - click on the project/paper to see the tags used.
If you follow this methodology for the remaining projects/papers, you'll get a nice listing of relevant work. Btw, if you add the appropriate category to each project/paper, you can include them as filters in ASK queries to get more precise results. (That is, you don't have to hardcode in subheadings in the project/paper sub-pages.) Let me know if you need any help and/or have any questions. Snerfling 16:08, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Back Up A Bit

JA: Snerfling, it's too late for me to absorb the stuff you did, so I'll look at that again in the morning, but I did have a couple of questions from looking around the site. For example, I notice that there are lots of simple directories like "Directory:Johnny Depp" that apparently belong to OMG, but they are not structured as subpages of that directory, so I'm a little puzzled why I'm creating all this DOSoid structure? Jon Awbrey 20:25, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

We allow users to create directory listings for other legal entities until which point those entities show up and claim the listings for themselves. That is, we have some users, like OMG & Garrett, who anticipate being able to market their wiki editing skills to these entities once they are turned over. A personality like Johnny Depp could in turn create sub-pages for each of their movies, etc.
Since you are apparently a math wiz, there's nothing stopping you from creating stand-alone directory listings for all sorts of individuals, publications, associations, etc. Just beware that the pages actually belong to the appropriate entities when they show up @ Centiare. Snerfling 21:10, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: Okay, I think I get that now — business and legal concepts a wiz @ I am not — but now I'm all pins and needles waiting for Johnny Depp to show up!

JA: What I'm actually concerned about here is directory path creep — where a page that I initially titled "Directory:Introduction to Inquiry Driven Systems" becomes "Directory:Jon Awbrey/Papers/Introduction to Inquiry Driven Systems", which is way too distracting at the head of the page to look like a title anymore, forcing me to create an internal title by way of re-orienting the reader. It just seems that there might be a way to handle ownership via semantic tags instead of morphing it onto subdirectory structure? Jon Awbrey 04:14, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

You're right about directory path creep - we're working on revising the way titles are displayed. In terms of using tags to identify ownership, that already exists from a semantic perspective. However, the real power of the directory space (and all sub-pages contained within any respective listing) is that no one else (except sysops) can edit your pages.
That is, we back up the "user owned" policy with actual system protections. Try and edit one of OMG's pages - you can't do it unless the last change was by a sysop. (This allow sysops to help edit pages without locking out original owners. However, once OMG makes the last revision, it goes back to the lock.) Snerfling 04:36, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: Okay, gotit. The other thing I just noticed is that I can't edit by sections anymore after I add the {{aficionados}}<sharethis /> tags. I tried flipping bits on my preferences, but still nogo. Is that supposed to happen, or just something on my side? Jon Awbrey 04:42, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

I have a "noedit" tag in the template because I kept editing the template instead of the text when I was first working on it. You can change it if you want. Snerfling 08:42, 21 May 2007 (PDT)


Jon, looks like you're quickly getting into nested roll-ups - excellent. If you're interested in how to really pull off tagging multiple layers, please take a look here. Not only do these examples roll-up & down (via ASK queries - you'll soon bail on old fashioned wiki bulleted lists), but we also use categories to distinguish different base types (eg city, social organization, etc) within roll-up levels. Snerfling 09:47, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

On the banks of the Red Cedar ...

... There's a school that's known to all! Jon -- just an amusing "time out" here: Did you know I'm a big fan of the Spartans? --MyWikiBiz 11:20, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: I do declare, there were times when I was so lonesome I took some classes there (1967–1989) La la la la la la la ... Jon Awbrey 11:28, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Google Boost

Did Greg mention your #1 ranking? Pretty dang impressive, no? We promote the SEO aspect of Centiare, but even we're impressed sometimes by how effective the semantic tags + internal links (aficionados) work. Snerfling 06:37, 27 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: Yeah, it's been a pretty cool site so far — I've experienced such fearful disappointments in the wiki wold that I'm afraid to jinx things by saying any more at this time. I know almost nothing about the mechanics of the sundry search engine rankings except what I've noticed about their outputs over the last decade or so. I am wrestling with a few old baklogs right now, but I'll try to jot down what I know about this example later on in case it helps with your SEO interests. Jon Awbrey 10:00, 27 May 2007 (PDT)


Did this guy ever give you trouble back in the wikipedia days []. He lives on the place, I looked in his contributions and he's on like 12 hours everyday. Apparently greed has overwhelmed my senses after I asked to make a centiare page on wikipedia again — big no no. Garrett 17:44, 27 May 2007 (PDT)

JA: No, never ran across him. Jon Awbrey 19:42, 27 May 2007 (PDT)

Directory Path Creep

JA: What I'm actually concerned about here is directory path creep — where a page that I initially titled "Directory:Introduction to Inquiry Driven Systems" becomes "Directory:Jon Awbrey/Papers/Introduction to Inquiry Driven Systems", which is way too distracting at the head of the page to look like a title anymore, forcing me to create an internal title by way of re-orienting the reader. It just seems that there might be a way to handle ownership via semantic tags instead of morphing it onto subdirectory structure? Jon Awbrey 04:14, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

I enabled the {{DISPLAYTITLE:xxx}} magic word and slightly hacked the display code to get pages to render a little cleaner along with sub-page breadcrumbs. Take a look here to see an example; I'd like to hear your feedback. Note that you have to use the URL for any wikilinks as the full path is eliminated in the title for display purposes. Snerfling 19:39, 3 June 2007 (PDT)

JA: Looks pretty slick so far. Not sure I understood the comment about using URL's for wikilinks, though. Jon Awbrey 10:34, 5 June 2007 (PDT)

Apropos Logic

Jon, the message you left at the Directory Talk page of Apropos Logic is probably misdirected. The author of that page (Wygk) is actually from LunaGraphica — they merely designed Apropos' logo. They post their clients to Centiare simply as a marketing boost and favor. — MyWikiBiz 14:17, 12 September 2007 (PDT)

JA: Okay, thanks for the heads up, I'll look up his contact info later on. Regards, Jon Awbrey 14:22, 12 September 2007 (PDT)

Temporary halt

Please refrain from posting or editing here until further notice. The site is going to be copied and ported to a new site very soon, so any additional edits you make here in the meantime may be lost eventually. Sorry for this one-time inconvenience. The new site will be --MyWikiBiz 21:28, 4 December 2007 (PST)

Database Secure

I wanted to let you know that the mywikibiz database is secure. I'm planning incremental off site backups. Still working on some of the site speed issues. Most of the other planned site tweaks can be performed without jeopardizing the database. Happy editing, Jon --OmniMediaGroup 06:52, 15 December 2007 (PST)

JA: Much grass! Well, back to the grinstone … Jon Awbrey 08:36, 15 December 2007 (PST)

How To Get Table Of Contents Without Numbering?

Jon, here's the code for no number TOC. You may have to clear your browser cache to get the omitted number display. Just place in your article anywhere above the first section. --OmniMediaGroup 09:43, 9 January 2008 (PST)

<div class="nonumtoc">__TOC__</div>

Beautiful !
Many Thanks, Jon Awbrey 10:10, 9 January 2008 (PST)

Want to be Biz'er of the week?

Jon, we're getting over 600 unique visitors per week, and probably a good portion of them hit the Main Page at some time during their stay. I was hoping to make you the "Biz'er of the Week" on the Main Page sometime soon, but wanted to check with you first. Also, the many .gif images you've uploaded don't seem to render when I try to inlay a smaller version of them in the Biz'er box. If you consent, is there a .jpg photo that can resize properly which you'd like in the Biz'er box? - MyWikiBiz 11:23, 28 February 2008 (PST)

Behind the Biz Biz at MyWikiBiz

Jon, you might want to check out this discussion on MyWikiBiz Talk page: Behind the Biz Biz at MyWikiBiz Especially the part about edit summaries --OmniMediaGroup 08:04, 17 May 2008 (PDT)

Not sure I grok all that SEO Biz, but the bit about edit lines seems to accord with what I naturally do anyway, I think? Jon Awbrey 08:10, 17 May 2008 (PDT)

Hey, I really LUV the Johnny Depp ads on my user pages, though! Jon Awbrey 08:28, 17 May 2008 (PDT)

Defining "theory"

Jon, I just made a wiki(biz)link to the page about theory, only to discover that it hadn't yet been created. Do you think you'd like to give it a try? It doesn't have to be anything fancy schmantzy -- just include a couple of wikilinks, so that we build a search engine web of authority. -- MyWikiBiz 06:35, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

I like the "hyphen hyphen" in the sig field!

I had to roll you back, Jon. Sorry. ;-) -- MyWikiBiz 07:50, 27 January 2009 (PST)

Practical applications?


What are/will be the practical applications of this paper, and your others?

Presuming you realize my question is in good faith and also take the time to answer, thank you for expanding my knowledge base.

JA: This paper of Peirce's has always interested me because it's the one of the places where the logic of relations, and mathematical logic in general, really begins to take off. The lion's share of the logical concepts and notations that we actually use today go back to this and other works of Peirce. As far as nuts-&-bolts applications go, the founding ideas of relational database systems trace through Ted Codd directly back to Peirce's work on the logic of relative terms.

JA: What's most intriguing is that many of Peirce's most far-reaching ideas are contained in his earliest papers, and nowhere near all of them have been applied to the extent that they might be. Jon Awbrey 05:06, 21 April 2009 (PDT)

Logical Graph

I've scraped the content of Logical graph on my user page for safe keeping. Let's leave this one alone until Greg can talk to Bill who is overseeing the wiki updates. --OmniMediaGroup 17:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Jon Awbrey 17:40, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


Strange trail I seem to be following, from Michel mentioning you, to writing on your p2pwiki page, and now here. I have glanced at your exploration of qualitative calculus which is rather daunting to me -- I feel like a beetle that has landed on an extended cactus drawing. Nevertheless, I'd like to ask you if you could look at modelling the self-similar social contract, mttp, we have discovered with eco^2. Or if you know someone who might be interested in modelling it. Be well! --Happyseaurchin 15:35, 17 May 2012 (UTC)