Changes

rv
Line 1: Line 1: −
Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating articles with old communist propaganda rhetoric. This part of Wikipedia is not encyclopaedic work, pure and simple.
  −
[http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View#History The Wikipedia Point of View-History]
   
<!-- MyWikiBiz users, note... Text that appears between these brackets are merely remarks. -->
 
<!-- MyWikiBiz users, note... Text that appears between these brackets are merely remarks. -->
 
<!-- They do not appear in the actual page. -->
 
<!-- They do not appear in the actual page. -->
 +
Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating articles with old [[Communists|communist]] propaganda rhetoric and it's false information? Is this the Balkan section of Wikipedia becoming the next [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Soviet_Encyclopedia#Purpose Great Soviet Encyclopedia]? This part of Wikipedia is not encyclopaedic work, pure and simple.
 +
[http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View#History The Wikipedia Point of View-History]
 +
 +
*[[Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles!]]
 +
*[[Nationalistic Editing on Wikipedia]]
 +
*[[User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas|Wikipedia & Political Agendas ]]
 +
 +
 +
'''Cazzo''' (www.sciforums.com):
 +
 +
Registered Senior User (1,028 posts)
 +
04-07-08, 05:47 PM
 +
 
 +
*When you bring up the topic of the Holocaust (of 6,000,000 jews) to neo-Nazis, they usually respond in 1 of 4 ways.
 +
'''(1)''' They deny it ever happened.
   −
== Research on Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles (former Yugoslavia) ==
+
'''(2)''' They say it was an "exaggeration" or a conspiracy theory.
 +
 
 +
'''(3)''' They try turning the tables or changing the subject.
 +
 
 +
'''(4)''' They say nothing at all.
 +
 
 +
The pure and simple fact is, they're evil people.
 +
 
 +
''But what about neo-Communists ? (and many other leftists)''
 +
*When you bring up the topic of nearly '''100,000,000 civilians''' torchered and killed under '''Communist governments''' in the 20th century (not including deaths from wars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bla...k_of_Communism), they react in the same way as the 4 catagories above.
 +
*Another excuse leftists make for this attrocity is that they were not "true perfect" Communist societies; well you could say that Germany wasn't a "true fascist" State too.....
 +
 
 +
*Public schools barely touch (if even mention) the Communist mass killings, and Hollywood has put out how many films about this ''? 1 ? 2 ?''
 +
 
 +
And yet, the Communists killed several times more of their own civilians than the Nazis did!
 +
 
 +
Think it's '''fair''' to say leftists that fit those 4 catagories are as evil as neo-Nazis?
 +
 
 +
''by'' '''Cazzo''' (www.sciforums.com)
 +
{| width="100%" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="10" style="background:#000000; border-style:solid; border-width:3px; border-color: #000000"
 +
| width="55%" valign="top" style="padding: 0; margin:0;" |
 +
<div style="float:right; width:100%">
 +
 
 +
<center>
 +
<youtube>Kspj_4TcjOQ&feature=related</youtube>
 +
<center>
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== Research on Wikipedia’s Articles on the Former Yugoslavia ==
 
'''The Balkan World According to Wikipedia''':
 
'''The Balkan World According to Wikipedia''':
According to Wikipedia if a Commander happens to lose 100 000 POWs after WW2, it is not that important. Sixty years latter it was established that they were murdered and place in old mine shafts, caves and forests. The information is not to be mention in his biography as it is irrelevant.
+
 
 +
According to [[Wikipedia]] if a Commander happens to lose an estimate of '''100 000 POWs''' after [[World War Two]] , it is not that important. Sixty years later it was established that they were murdered and place in old mine shafts, caves and forests. The information is not to be mention in his biography as it is ''irrelevant''.
    
On the 23rd of April in 1948, in a speech '''Harry Truman''' (the President of USA) stated:  
 
On the 23rd of April in 1948, in a speech '''Harry Truman''' (the President of USA) stated:  
   −
''"I am told that Tito murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator"''
+
''"I am told that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito Tito] murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator"''
   −
Reference  from: Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=-Xkv7ym8hDYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keeping+Tito+Afloat:+The+United+States,+Yugoslavia,+and+the+Cold+War&client=safari&cd=1#v=snippet&q=%20tito%20trade%20papers%20four%20hundred%20thousand&f=false Keeping Tito Afloat] by Lorraine M. Lees</ref>  &  Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=cgPc0rsBxSAC&pg=PA219&dq=josip+broz+Tito++harry+truman&cd=5#v=onepage&q=josip%20broz%20Tito%20%20harry%20truman&f=false Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy] by Anne R. Pierce</ref> ''(declassified documents from the 1990s)''
+
Reference  from: Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=-Xkv7ym8hDYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keeping+Tito+Afloat:+The+United+States,+Yugoslavia,+and+the+Cold+War&client=safari&cd=1#v=snippet&q=%20tito%20trade%20papers%20four%20hundred%20thousand&f=false Keeping Tito Afloat] by Lorraine M. Lees.Keeping Tito Afloat draws upon newly declassified documents to show the critical role that Yugoslavia played in U.S. foreign policy with the communist world in the early years of the Cold War. After World War II, the United States considered Yugoslavia to be a loyal Soviet satellite, but Tito surprised the West in 1948 by breaking with Stalin. Seizing this opportunity, the Truman administration sought to "keep Tito afloat" by giving him military and economic aid.</ref>  &  Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce <ref> American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce</ref> ''([[USA|US]] declassified documents from the 1990s)''
 +
* Christopher Bennett: Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences ''"Tito remained a Stalinist to the end of his life. Tito"'' . <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=FeiKg3TuNl0C&pg=PA56&dq=titoism&client=safari&cd=9#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse:] Causes, Course and Consequences by Christopher Bennett</ref> ([http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1207940.Yugoslavia_s_Bloody_Collapse_Causes_Course_and_Consequences book info])
   −
* '''R. H. Markham''': Tito's Imperial Communism <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=bPlo1Wz9hqQC&pg=PR7&dq=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+tito&lr=&client=safari&cd=12#v=onepage&q=Totalitarian%20dictatorship%20and%20autocracy%20tito&f=false Tito's Imperial Communism] by R. H. Markham</ref>
+
Bennett, a British journalist who has the good fortune to speak both Slovenian and Croatian, a skill that has enabled him to draw heavily on literature of the region that would be unavailable to most American or British journalists.
* Christopher Bennett: Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences-
+
*Vladimir Tismaneanu: The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe: The Poverty of Utopia. ''"Tito was a season Stalinist"''  <ref>The Poverty of Utopia by Vladimir Tismaneanu</ref>
''"Tito was a Stalinist in his own right"'' . <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=FeiKg3TuNl0C&pg=PA56&dq=titoism&client=safari&cd=9#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse:] Causes, Course and Consequences by Christopher Bennett</ref>
  −
Bennett, a British journalist who has the good fortune to speak both Slovenian and Serbo-Croatian, a skill that has enabled him to draw heavily on literature of the region that would be unavailable to most American or British journalists.
  −
*Vladimir Tismaneanu: The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe: The Poverty of Utopia. ''"Tito was a season Stalinist"''  <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=mYUOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=titoism&lr=&client=safari&cd=16#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe:] The Poverty of Utopia by Vladimir Tismaneanu</ref>
  −
*  Adam Bruno Ulam: Ideologies and Illusions: Revolutionary Thought from Herzen to Solzhenitsyn-Titoisam <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=lQIZSY9PviUC&pg=PA1159&dq=titoism&lr=&client=safari&cd=25#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false Ideologies and Illusions] Revolutionary Thought from Herzen to Solzhenitsyn by Adam Bruno Ulam</ref>
   
*  Vesna Pusic-Croatia at the Crossroads/Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 ''"Tito, a Croat and a Moscow-trained communist, ...... While his was a single-party, totalitarian regime, Tito was more a shrewd pragmatist than an ideologue. "''  <ref>[http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_democracy/v009/9.1pusic.html Croatia at the Crossroads] Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 by Vesna Pusic</ref>
 
*  Vesna Pusic-Croatia at the Crossroads/Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 ''"Tito, a Croat and a Moscow-trained communist, ...... While his was a single-party, totalitarian regime, Tito was more a shrewd pragmatist than an ideologue. "''  <ref>[http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_democracy/v009/9.1pusic.html Croatia at the Crossroads] Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 by Vesna Pusic</ref>
 
+
{{GKAdBrite}}
 
== Notes on References ==
 
== Notes on References ==
 
'''Contemporary views''' of Josip Broz that are clealy referenced:
 
'''Contemporary views''' of Josip Broz that are clealy referenced:
 +
*[http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/ASEN/ConferencePapers/Ms.%20Tamara%20Pavasovic%20Trost%20-%20A%20Personality%20Cult%20Transformed%20The%20Evolution%20of%20Tito’s%20Image%20in%20the%20Former%20Yugoslavia%201974%20-%202009.pdf A Personality Cult Transformed:] The Evolution of Tito’s Image in the Former Yugoslavia 1974 – 2009/Tamara Pavasovic Trost Ph.D. Candidate Department of Sociology Harvard University [[USA]].
 
*Lorraine M. Lees is an associate professor of history at Old Dominion University in Virginia, USA.
 
*Lorraine M. Lees is an associate professor of history at Old Dominion University in Virginia, USA.
 
*Anne R. Pierce Ph. D. Political Science from the University of Chicago. Independent Scholar & Author/USA [http://annerpierce.com/home/index.php Author's Web Site]*
 
*Anne R. Pierce Ph. D. Political Science from the University of Chicago. Independent Scholar & Author/USA [http://annerpierce.com/home/index.php Author's Web Site]*
    
*'''BBC'''.UK/History Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941 - 1945 <ref>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/partisan_fighters_01.shtml#six BBC-History Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941-1945] </ref> By Dr Stephen A Hart
 
*'''BBC'''.UK/History Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941 - 1945 <ref>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/partisan_fighters_01.shtml#six BBC-History Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941-1945] </ref> By Dr Stephen A Hart
The article is written in the post ''Berlin Wall'' world. The Wiki article '''does not''' have the [[BBC]] as it's '''source'''.
+
The article is written in the post ''Berlin Wall'' world. The Wiki article '''does not''' have the [[BBC]] as its '''source'''.
 
This encyclopaedic articles clearly state the dark truth about Tito and his Army-[http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/partisan_fighters_01.shtml#six Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941-1945]
 
This encyclopaedic articles clearly state the dark truth about Tito and his Army-[http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/partisan_fighters_01.shtml#six Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941-1945]
 
*Dr Stephen A Hart is senior lecturer in war studies at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. He is the author of The Road to Falaise: Operations "Totalize" & "Tractable" (Alan Sutton, 2004),  "Montgomery " and "Colossal Cracks": The 21st Army Group in Northwest Europe, 1944-45 (Praeger, 2000).  
 
*Dr Stephen A Hart is senior lecturer in war studies at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. He is the author of The Road to Falaise: Operations "Totalize" & "Tractable" (Alan Sutton, 2004),  "Montgomery " and "Colossal Cracks": The 21st Army Group in Northwest Europe, 1944-45 (Praeger, 2000).  
Line 36: Line 77:  
*'''Encyclopaedia Britannica''' <ref>Encyclopædia Britannica: History & Society-Josip Broz Tito</ref> -The article is written post ''Berlin Wall'' but it's thin in terms of information, but does not hold back on economic realities:  ''"At his death, the state treasury was '''empty.'''"''  
 
*'''Encyclopaedia Britannica''' <ref>Encyclopædia Britannica: History & Society-Josip Broz Tito</ref> -The article is written post ''Berlin Wall'' but it's thin in terms of information, but does not hold back on economic realities:  ''"At his death, the state treasury was '''empty.'''"''  
   −
The Wiki article has Encyclopaedia Britannica  under its ''Notes'' section as it's source, it might be just cosmetic.
+
The Wiki article has Encyclopaedia Britannica  under its ''Notes'' section as its source, it might be just cosmetic.
    
*'''BBC''' UK/History  <ref>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/yugoslavia_03.shtml BBC UK/History] by Tim Judah</ref> by Tim Judah: ''"The economy was built on the shaky foundations of massive western loans."'' The article is also written  in the post '''Berlin Wall''' world. The Wiki article '''does not''' have the [[BBC]] as it's '''source'''.
 
*'''BBC''' UK/History  <ref>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/yugoslavia_03.shtml BBC UK/History] by Tim Judah</ref> by Tim Judah: ''"The economy was built on the shaky foundations of massive western loans."'' The article is also written  in the post '''Berlin Wall''' world. The Wiki article '''does not''' have the [[BBC]] as it's '''source'''.
Line 50: Line 91:     
Other Genocide & Ethnic Cleansing:
 
Other Genocide & Ethnic Cleansing:
Genocide Carried out by the Tito Partisans/Danube Swabian History (former Yugoslavia) 1944-1948 [http://www.dvhh.org/history/genocide/index.htm]
+
Genocide carried out by the Tito Partisans/Danube Swabian History (former Yugoslavia) 1944-1948 [http://www.dvhh.org/history/genocide/index.htm]
    
*'''David W. Del Testa''' has a Ph.D. in History from the University of California at Davis.
 
*'''David W. Del Testa''' has a Ph.D. in History from the University of California at Davis.
Line 60: Line 101:     
*'''Ivo Goldstein''': <ref>Croatia A History-Mc Gill Queen’s University Press Publication by Ivo Goldstein. </ref>
 
*'''Ivo Goldstein''': <ref>Croatia A History-Mc Gill Queen’s University Press Publication by Ivo Goldstein. </ref>
:''“Self-management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. People could obtain so much free or for less than the market price (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult.”''
+
Ivo Goldstein: 'Croatia A History'. Josip Broz and his fellow communist were committing economic management suicide. The Wiki article does not have Ivo Goldstein  as its source.
 
  −
:''“In Tito’s system no interest or ideas could be expressed in a truly democratic way. This did most harm where feelings of ethnic identity were concerned because their suppression led to growth of extreme nationalism. Furthermore, the economic failure of Tito’s system, most clearly expressed in the protracted crisis of the 1980s, left people who even if they were not poor, were disillusioned and open to manipulation by demagogues. Finally Tito’s practical solutions ensured that he would retain unlimited power during his life time, but foreshadowed the problems would come after his death.”
  −
''
  −
This is a factual statement, written in Ivo Goldstein: 'Croatia A History'. Josip Broz and his fellow communist were committing economic management suicide. The Wiki article does not have Ivo Goldstein  as it's source.
   
:The articles clearly state:
 
:The articles clearly state:
   Line 85: Line 122:  
Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency.
 
Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency.
   −
*'''Joachim Friedrich''' & '''Zbigniew Brzezinski''' ''(Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy)'': <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=U3xCAAAAIAAJ&q=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+regimes&dq=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+regimes&client=safari&cd=1 Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy] by Joachim Friedrich & Zbigniew Brzezinski</ref> Characteristics of a totalitarian regime; a total ideology, a single mass party, a terroristic secret police, a monopoly of mass communication, all instruments to wage combat are in the control of the same hands, and a centrally directed planned economy. Totalitarian dictatorships emerge after the seizure of power by the leaders of a movement who have developed support for an ideology. The point when the government becomes totalitarian is when the leadership uses open and legal violence to maintain its control. The dictator demands unanimous devotion from the people and often uses a real or imaginary enemy to create a threat so the people rally around him.
+
'''Totalitarian machine''':  
 
  −
'''Titoism & Totalitarianism''':  
      
*Abuse of national sentiment to carry out racial and class revolutionary projects;  
 
*Abuse of national sentiment to carry out racial and class revolutionary projects;  
Line 114: Line 149:  
''A broad regional coalition of civil society associations from the countries of the  former Yugoslavia is planning to strongly pressure the succession countries into forming regional commissions to establish the facts on war crimes and other severe violations of human rights.''
 
''A broad regional coalition of civil society associations from the countries of the  former Yugoslavia is planning to strongly pressure the succession countries into forming regional commissions to establish the facts on war crimes and other severe violations of human rights.''
   −
Natasa Kandic: Founder and Director, Humanitarian Law Center, Serbia and Montenegro.
+
Natasa Kandic: Founder and Director, Humanitarian Law Centre, Serbia and Montenegro.
    
*'''Serbia''' to Uncover Mass Graves-Belgrade 13 August 2009 [http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/21609/]  
 
*'''Serbia''' to Uncover Mass Graves-Belgrade 13 August 2009 [http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/21609/]  
Line 128: Line 163:     
(Mr Bozic is a Doctor from Zagreb -Croatia, Master of Medical Science and has done 20 years intensive research into ''partisan communists'' in the former Yugoslavia)
 
(Mr Bozic is a Doctor from Zagreb -Croatia, Master of Medical Science and has done 20 years intensive research into ''partisan communists'' in the former Yugoslavia)
 +
 +
* Croatia: Amnesty International & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE
 +
 +
The Draft Law on Removing the Consequences of the Totalitarian Communist Regime, proposed by: the Croatian Party of Rights (1998 and 1999) aimed to systematically bar high-ranking party and state officials of the former regime from holding high-ranking offices in the new state, if in the past these persons had violated human rights and opposed the establishment of democracy.
 +
 +
The Law on the Security Services of the Republic of Croatia has been applied since 1 April 2002. The key intention of the law is the establishment of an appropriate model of supervision of their work (internal and external control). The law makes no distinction between the period from 1945 until 1990 and the period after 1990. Principally, the law allows for access to the documents and material. In the period 1990-1996 there were an estimated 2,200 dismissals and appointments of judges and state attorneys recorded in the Official Gazette.
 +
 +
In Croatia there have as yet been practically no major public debates on the past. <ref>[http://www.amnesty.nl/bibliotheek_vervolg/thema_berechting_part_2 Croatia & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE, Amnesty International ]</ref>
    
== Mr Dizdar's ''Scientific Journal'' Study Notes==
 
== Mr Dizdar's ''Scientific Journal'' Study Notes==
Line 138: Line 181:     
*''Item B''- '''Z. Dizdar''': An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross                   
 
*''Item B''- '''Z. Dizdar''': An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross                   
According to the research of ''Z.Dizdar'', Partisan General Aleksandar Rankovic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandar_Ranković] [http://files.osa.ceu.hu/holdings/300/8/3/text/86-3-147.shtml] was only answerable to Tito (page 128). Aleksandar Rankovic play a major role in these executions and the only person that could to give Rankovic such an order, was Tito. The report also states that there were huge Camps housing POWs, amongst them were women and children. On page 183 it states that there were '''24 000 children''' in the camps.
+
According to the research of ''Z.Dizdar'', Partisan General [http://files.osa.ceu.hu/holdings/300/8/3/text/86-3-147.shtml Aleksandar Rankovic] was only answerable to Tito (page 128). Aleksandar Rankovic play a major role in these executions and the only person that could to give Rankovic such an order, was Tito. The report also states that there were huge Camps housing POWs, amongst them were women and children. On page 182 (66) it states that there were '''24 422 children''' in the camps.<ref>[http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:Xmg34OucoOoJ:scholar.google.com/++RESEARCH+OF+THE+PROBLEM+OF+BLEIBURG+AND+WAY+OF+THE+CROSS+++ZDRAVKO+DIZDAR+djeca+logor&hl=en&as_sdt=2000  Hrcak Portal of Scientific Journals of Croatia by Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal - An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross.] This paper dedicated to the 60th anniversary of these tragic events represents a small step towards the elaboration of known data and brings a list of yet unknown and unpublished original documents, mostly belonging to the Yugoslavian Military and Political Government 1945-1947.</ref>
 
  −
 
  −
== Communist Propaganda &  Cult of Personality Within the Former Yugoslavia ==
  −
 
  −
The Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine shared much with the Soviet Union. The Soviet format was imposed and then slightly modified. Tito's cult of personality was no different<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=Mi9b2yenE0kC&pg=PA91&dq=cult+of+personality+Josip+broz+tito&client=safari&cd=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false Governing by Committee: Collegial Leadership in Advanced Societies] by Thomas A. Baylis. Communist Collective Leadership, page 91</ref>. The Yugoslav Communist state used '''youth indoctrination''' (Union of Pioneers of Yugoslavia[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Pioneers_of_Yugoslavia]), which were all too similar to the Soviet Union (Young Pioneer of the Soviet Union [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneer_organisation_of_the_Soviet_Union]) and the People's Republic of China  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneers_of_China]. Communist political, historical and philosophical courses were all part of general education <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=GxuXQW58E14C&pg=PA197&dq=Democratic+transition+in+Croatia+value+transformation+Tito's+cult+of+personality&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Democratic transition in Croatia: Value Transformation, Education & Media] by Sabrina P. Ramet, Davorka Matic Chapter- History Teaching in the Time of Socialist Yugoslavia, page 198</ref>. They can be found in any Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s.
  −
Media and arts were used as a powerful means of propaganda and were all placed under heavy censorship. Josip Broz Tito was the main subject. Images, monuments, towns, street names, '''endless awards''' were given and a never ending production of books, films and poetry were created. Financially a huge amount of resources were used to keep the Communist propaganda and political activities running on a daily basis. Glorification and hero worship of the charismatic figure,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=Rf8P-7ExoKYC&pg=PA192&dq=cult+of+personality+Josip+broz+tito&client=safari&cd=10#v=onepage&q=cult%20of%20personality%20Josip%20broz%20tito&f=false Religious Separation and Political Intolerance in Bosnia and Herzegovina] By Mitja Velikonja. Ref/Chapter Integral and Organic Yugoslavism, page 192 </ref> Josip Broz were a constant diet for the former peoples of Yugoslavia.
  −
 
  −
Most of Josip Broz’s images, monuments, town names and street names are now being removed. This started after the fall of the Berlin Wall and after the break up of Yugoslavia.
  −
 
  −
*The below referenced information is from ‘Discontents: Post-modern and Post-communist’ by Paul Hollander [http://daviscenter.fas.harvard.edu/people/bio_hollander.html][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hollander].
  −
 
  −
:''“Virtually every communist system extinct or surviving at one point or another, had a supreme leader who was both extraordinarily powerful and surrounded by a bizarre cult, indeed worship. In the past (or in a more traditional contemporary societies) such as cults were reserved for deities and associated with conventional religious behaviour and institutions. These cults although apparently an intrinsic part of communist dictatorships (at any rate at a stage in their evolution) are largely forgotten today.”''
  −
:''“ Stalin, Maio, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Sung, Enver Hoxha, Ceascesu, Dimitrov, Ulbricht, Gottwald, '''Tito''' and others all were the object of such cults. The prototypical cult was that of Stalin which was duplicated elsewhere with minor variations”''
  −
 
  −
Paul Hollander is an American scholar, journalist, and conservative political writer. (Ph.D in Sociology. Princeton University, 1963, B.A. London School of Economics, 1959 Professor Emeritus of Sociology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Centre Associate, Davis).
      +
*Treba kazati kako su postojali još posebni logoru za folsdojčere, kojisu još 21. XI. 1944. od Predsjedništva AVNOJ-a proglašeni kolektivnimkrivcima i neprijateljima naroda, na osnovi cega je od nove komunistickevlasti izvršena konfisciranja njihove imovine te zapoceo njihov progon,uhicivanja i upucivanja u logore.130 Tako je 18. I. 1946. u jugoslavenskimlogorima bilo 117.485 folksdojcera (58.821 žena, 34.214 muškaraca i24.422 djece)
 +
(Opširnije o tome vidi/ for more details: V. GEIGER, 200)
 
==  Communist Party of Yugoslavia, Tito & the Yugoslav Economy ==
 
==  Communist Party of Yugoslavia, Tito & the Yugoslav Economy ==
 
   
 
   
''Self -management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. '''People could obtain so much free''' or '''for less than the market price''' (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult''
+
''Self-management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. '''People could obtain so much free''' or '''for less than the market price''' (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult''
    
''In Tito’s system no interest or ideas could be expressed in a truly democratic way. This did most harm where feelings of ethnic identity were concerned because their suppression led to growth of extreme nationalism. Furthermore, the economic failure of Tito’s system, most clearly expressed in the protracted crisis of the 1980s, left people who even if they were not poor, were disillusioned and open to manipulation by demagogues. Finally Tito’s practical solutions ensured that he would retain unlimited power during his life time, but foreshadowed the problems would come after his death.''
 
''In Tito’s system no interest or ideas could be expressed in a truly democratic way. This did most harm where feelings of ethnic identity were concerned because their suppression led to growth of extreme nationalism. Furthermore, the economic failure of Tito’s system, most clearly expressed in the protracted crisis of the 1980s, left people who even if they were not poor, were disillusioned and open to manipulation by demagogues. Finally Tito’s practical solutions ensured that he would retain unlimited power during his life time, but foreshadowed the problems would come after his death.''
   −
Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Goldstein] work  ''above'' proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references [http://books.google.com/books?id=pSxJdE4MYo4C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=Ivo+Goldstein+josip+broz+tito&source=bl&ots=LhBvNMaOlk&sig=xzaZOyX2NizYEnvG6LFgv5_sh2c&hl=en&ei=DrDmSsKeNI-PkQXukOTBBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=liberation%20of%20belgrade%20october%201944&f=false], this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such an historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.
+
Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Goldstein] work  ''above'' proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references [http://books.google.com/books?id=pSxJdE4MYo4C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=Ivo+Goldstein+josip+broz+tito&source=bl&ots=LhBvNMaOlk&sig=xzaZOyX2NizYEnvG6LFgv5_sh2c&hl=en&ei=DrDmSsKeNI-PkQXukOTBBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=liberation%20of%20belgrade%20october%201944&f=false], this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such a historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.
== House of De Bona==
     −
* Age, Marriage, and Politics in Fifteenth Century Ragusa ''by'' David Rheubottom <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=_3dGQI2MdKQC&pg=PA77&dq=(de)+Bona+house+ragusa&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=(de)%20Bona%20house%20ragusa&f=false Age, Marriage, and Politics in Fifteenth Century Ragusa] by David Rheubottom</ref>
+
== Deletion On Wiki Talk Page Josip Broz Tito (fun and games) ==
Book overview: This book combines the insights of history and anthropology with innovative techniques such as computer simulation to investigate the relationships between politics, kinship, and marriage in the late-medieval city-state of Ragusa (present-day Dubrovnik). At its heart is a reconsideration of `office' and the ways in which ties of kinship and marriage were mobilized to build electoral success.
+
*[[Directory:Josip Broz Tito and Wikipedia|Josip Broz Tito and Wikipedia]]‎
   −
*Our Kingdom Come: The Counter-Reformation, the Republic of Dubrovnik by Zdenko Zlatar <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=RGRpAAAAMAAJ&q=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&client=safari&cd=9 Our Kingdom Come] The Counter-Reformation, the Republic of Dubrovnik by Zdenko Zlatar</ref>
+
Dear reader just recently my thoughts on talkpage Tito have been deleted and it seems it’s going to stay that way. Since I am faced with the fact that my opinions are being suppressed and then eventually will be blocked, I’ve decided to put this out there so these events may be known to the wider wiki community.
* Dubrovnik’s Patrician Houses and Their Participation in Power (1440-1640) ''by'' Zdenko Zlatar/hrcak.srce.hr/ page 49 <ref>[http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZZoIxjLQg8J:hrcak.srce.hr/file/28928+House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShfySDFoeDnq8Xs1VHKAD7TKmoK5f62fuEJZB_R93bpVoRTnerV_ILq9MngmdQBuQzVpc-pdFZyJP7PYuoRzp-446zoCevYYADqA7GTlYuCqZT6uZdNv_apIZqulcnDnTP-dbDy&sig=AHIEtbQGOnW1WNvuOttPIWfXVCUnZIg26g Dubrovnik’s Patrician Houses and Their Participation in Power (1440-1640)] by Zdenko Zlatar/hrcak.srce.hr/file/28928. page 49</ref>
  −
  −
'''Zdenko Zlatar''' is Reader in Slavic History at The University of Sydney. Address:
  −
Department of History, The University of Sydney, Sydney, N.S.W. 2006, Australia
  −
*Dubrovnik Under French Rule ''by'' Stjepan Cosic page 113 hrcak.srce.hr/file/12648. <ref>[http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache%3AF6sh1V_orWAJ%3Ahrcak.srce.hr%2Ffile%2F12648+House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&hl=en Dubrovnik Under French Rule (1810-1814) Dubrovnik Under French Rule] by Stjepan Cosic/ hrcak.srce.hr/file/12648. page 113 </ref>
  −
* Dubrovnik‎ by Barisa Krekic <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?client=safari&cd=1&id=m85pAAAAMAAJ&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&q=+De+Bona+#search_anchor  Dubrovnik‎ by Barisa Krekic]</ref>
  −
* Journal of Croatian Studies: Volume 20 ''by'' Croatian Academy of America <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=VvCPAAAAIAAJ&q=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&client=safari&cd=10 Journal of Croatian Studies]  Volume 20 ''by'' Croatian Academy of America</ref>
  −
* Quattrocento Adriatico: Fifteenth-Century Art of the Adriatic by Charles Dempsey <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?client=safari&cd=5&id=uKzpAAAAMAAJ&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&q=De+Bona+#search_anchor Quattrocento Adriatico]: Fifteenth-Century Art of the Adriatic by Charles Dempsey  "The papers collected in this book provide many new observations about the artistic interrelationship between Italy and the cities of the Dalmatian coast during the fifteenth century, with special attention given to the influence on both sides of the Adriatic of the styles of Donatello in sculpture, Squarcione in painting, and Alberti in architecture. Essays are devoted to fifteenth-century painting in Dalmatia and its ties to the opposite shore; to the centrality of Padua in diffusing artistic ideas throughout the Adriatic; to Venetian sovereignty over Dalmatia; to Renaissance villas on the Dalmatian coast; to the architectural activity of Michelozzo and his shop in Dubrovnik; to the Chapel of the Planets in the Tempio Malatestiano at Rimini; to the Chapel of the Blessed Giovanni Orsini at Trogir; to Niccolo di Giovanni Fiorentino's work in Dalmatia; to Giovanni Dalmata's work in Italy; and to humanist poetic inscriptions devised for statues in Dubrovnik by Lorenzo Guidetti. The contract between the Opera of the Cathedral at Trogir and the stonecutters Niccolo di Giovanni Fiorentino and Adrea Alessi is transcribed in an Appendix. Contributors: Josko Belamari (Regional Institute for the Protection of Cultural Monuments, Split), Francesco Caglioti (University of Pisa), Adrea De Marchi (Soprintendenza delle Belle Arti di Pisa), Janez Hofler (University of Ljubljana), Stanko Kokole (The Johns Hopkins University), Reinhold Mueller (University of Venice), Kruno Prijatelj (Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences), Anne Markham Schulz (Brown University), Samo Stefanac (University of Ljubljana), Johannes Roll (The Humboldt University)."</ref>
  −
*Helias and Blasius De Radoano: Ragusa Merchants in the Second Half of the 14th Century ''by'' Barisa Krekic.  
     −
" In February of 1378 Blasius and ser '''Lucas de Bona''' had appointed two Venetians and a Ragusan"  page 408 <ref>[http://www.doiserbia.nbs.bg.ac.yu/img/doi/0584-9888/2004/0584-98880441399K.pdf Helias and Blasius De Radoano:] Ragusa Merchants in the Second Half of the 14th Century by Barisa Krekic</ref>
+
The article in question is Josip Broz Tito (the former Dictator of Yugoslavia- East Europe). He was commander of the partisan forces during world war 2 and later a Stalinistic style dictator of the former Yugoslavia. The Wikipedic article is biased and does not mention crimes (Bleiburg massacre & foibe massacres)) against humanity that were committed under his leadership.
   −
''Note:'' Reference writing is based on unpublished and published documents from the State Archives in Dubrovnik, Croatia.
+
I registered that this should be part of the article and as a result I have been deleted. One writer was very abusive and deleted my writings on talk back pages. His name is DIREKTOR. He was supported by Ruhrfisch ><>°° I would like to quote some of the Direktor’s statements regarding this article just to inform you of what we are dealing with here.
* From Dubrovnik (Ragusa) Florence: Observations on the Recruiting of Domestic Servants in the 15 Century by Paola Pinelli - hrcak.srce.hr/file/50677.page 63
     −
"for slave trade companies continued to be founded, like the one established in1445 between '''Marino di Bona''' of '''Ragusa''' and Benedetto Magrino for the trade of 12-15 male and female slaves." <ref>[http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:0I7qkN19v8QJ:scholar.google.com/+House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&hl=en&as_sdt=2000 From Dubrovnik (Ragusa) Florence] : Observations on the Recruiting of Domestic Servants in the 15 Century by Paola Pinelli/hrcak.srce.hr/file/50677 page 63</ref>
+
{{Cquote|Find yourself another one of your crappy "forums" to talk about your presumptions. Just forget about this, Luigi/Brunodam, you're not annoying anyone - you're just turning out amusing. I think I'll file a checkuser in an hour or so, you'd better believe it when I say I'll delete everything you wrote if you're a sock. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)}}
*The Factions within the Ragusan Patriciate (17-18 Century)  S. Cosic and N. Vekaric.
  −
Table 1. Factions in the Great Conspiracy of 1610/12 by senatorship. page 23 <ref>[http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:hpVqWGLzcCkJ:scholar.google.com/++Merchants+de+Bona+republic+of+ragusa+patrician+families&hl=en&as_sdt=2000 The Factions within the Ragusan Patriciate (17-18 Century)] by S. Cosic and N. Vekaric. Table 1. Factions in the Great Conspiracy of 1610/12 by senatorship. page 23 </ref>
     −
''Note'': Stjepan Cosic, member of the Institute for Historical Sciences of the Croatian Academy of
+
These events are not some conspiracy. They have been part of the western media since the break up of the former Yugoslavia. They have been presented as TV documentaries, on talk back shows and in general writings in England, other parts of Europe and USA, Australia and other parts of the free world. They are backed by eye witness accounts by people who were actually caught up in these events.
Sciences and Arts in Dubrovnik. Address: Zavod za povijesne znanosti HAZU, Lapadska
  −
obala 6, 20000 Dubrovnik, Croatia.  
     −
Nenad Vekarie, head of the Institute for Historical Sciences of the Croatian Academy of
+
The Croatian government is addressing these issues with investigations and financial reimbursement is being given to the victims. These are facts and should be present in the article and not deleted when someone points them out. These actions mirror the attitude of the regime that I am trying to expose.
Sciences and Arts in Dubrovnik. Address: Zavod za povijesne znanosti HAZU, Lapadska
  −
obala 6, 20000 Dubrovnik, Croatia.  
     −
(Dubrovnik Annals, No.6 Srpanj 2002.<ref>[http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?lang=hr&show=clanak&id_clanak_jezik=28928 Dubrovnik Annals, No.6 Srpanj 2002.]</ref>)
+
The Josip Broz Tito article is a dangerous biased piece of writing. It would fit perfectly in any article of the old the Yugoslavia or the old Soviet Union propaganda machine (Cult of personality). Why is it there? The only answer it seems is that Wikipedia has some writers of extreme views (Stalin Style) who don’t tolerate being questioned.
    +
Referenced from www.britannica.com: "The irony of Tito’s remarkable life is that he created the conditions for the eventual destruction of his lifelong effort. Instead of allowing the process of democratisation to establish its own limits, he constantly upset the work of reformers while failing to satisfy their adversaries. He created a federal state, yet he constantly fretted over the pitfalls of decentralization."
    +
Tito was the commander of the Partisans and there are far too many examples of mass murders & mass arrests for it to be ignored (& there are many more). Any good encyclopedic article should make reference to them. It would be like Stalin without his rule of terror being documented. This just dosen't make sense in the modern world. What we have here is a clear avoidance of these issues (in the article), thus making it biased.
   −
'''Croatia''':
+
{{Cquote|Direktor '''stated''': they have absolutely nothing to do with Josip Broz Tito}} Well then, what ''' did Tito do'''? Did he let these horrible events just happen? Did he have a '''moral conscience''' (the war did end)? Was he '''incompetent?''' Was he the great leader that the Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine portrayed him to be? Even the Wiki article states this. I have shown here credible references and sources to prove my argument, please take them into account.  
* National Security and the Future. Editorial Office, Rudera Boskoviceva 20, 10000 Zagreb, Croatia: 
  −
 
  −
''" The Ragusan Archives document , "Speculum Maioris Consilii Rectores", showed 4397 rectors elected between September 1440 to June l806; 2764, (63 %) were from eleven "old patrician" families: Gozze, Bona, Caboga, Cerva, Ghetaldi, Giorgi, Gradi, Pozza, Saraca, Sorgo, and Zamanya. An 1802 list of Ragusa's governing bodies showed3 that 6 of the 8 Minor Council, and 15 of 20 Grand Council members were from the same 11 families."'' <ref>[http://www.nsf-journal.hr/issues/v1_n3-4/dedijer.htm National Security and the Future-Croatia]:Ragusa Intelligence & Security (RIS)
  −
- A Model for the 21st Century! Stevan Dedijer Dubrovnik, Croatia </ref>
  −
 
  −
*De Bona Consulting: Director: Mercy Bona Pavelic [http://www.luxurycroatia.com/ProductDetails/156/pgid/23/lang/English/Luxury---Exclusive-Croatia---Top-Real-Estate-Agencies---de-Bona-Consulting--Dubrovnik--Zagreb.wshtml - DE BONA CONSULTING]
  −
E-mail: bona@de-bona.com, gsm: + 385 91 6374883, Zrinsko Frankopanska 5, Dubrovnik, Croatia
  −
fax: +385 20 311816 Pantovcak 8, Zagreb, Croatia, fax: +385 1 4821347 [http://www.de-bona.com/index.php DeBona.com] <br>    <!-- This is how you force a line break. -->
  −
 
  −
* HUMANIZAM -hrv. književnost 14. i 15. st. <ref>[http://mudrac.ffzg.hr/~ltatomir/skripte/skripte/humanizam.rtf Humanizam -hrv. književnost 14. i 15. st]</ref>
  −
(Debona.michel: "Basically, we are dealing with a small group of mostly young, very aggressive, (extreme) nationalist/jingoist/chauvinist, passionate (24/7), degree-less students who have decided that Wikipedia is their domain/soap box and a no one should get in their way." - 8 January 2010)
      
<!-- This is where the footnotes show up. -->
 
<!-- This is where the footnotes show up. -->
   −
==References==
+
== References ==
<div class="references-small" style="-moz-column-count:1; column-count:1;">
+
<references/>
<references />
  −
</div>
  −
 
  −
 
  −
==External links==
 
7,879

edits