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MyWikiBiz, Author Your Legacy — Tuesday April 30, 2024
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:''Questions'':
:''Questions'':
:* For the lat/long semantic attributes, do we want decimal coordinates (as used in the template), or traditional? Right now I'm using traditional.
:* For the lat/long semantic attributes, do we want decimal coordinates (as used in the template), or traditional? Right now I'm using traditional.
:* What level of granularity do we need? I used [[Directory:Huntington Beach|Huntington Beach]] for Centiare, but it only provides a general view. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:29, 7 December 2006 (PST)
:* What level of granularity do we need? I used [[Directory:Huntington Beach, California|Huntington Beach]] for Centiare, but it only provides a general view. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:29, 7 December 2006 (PST)
::Personally, I prefer the decimal method of coordinates. I'll bet that they would work better in the triple-search tool (as one could just enter the coordinate detail as deep as they care to go -- no decimal, a tenth, a hundredth, etc.). I imagine that writing an ASK query for degrees, minutes, and seconds might be a pain in the butt, but writing ASKs for linear, numeric decimals would be a relative cinch. Positive and negative numbers are also more easy to build a query around than N, S, E, and W. Also, decimal just seems so much more "machine-friendly", and that's the whole point of semantic tagging -- get human labor out of the equation.
::Personally, I prefer the decimal method of coordinates. I'll bet that they would work better in the triple-search tool (as one could just enter the coordinate detail as deep as they care to go -- no decimal, a tenth, a hundredth, etc.). I imagine that writing an ASK query for degrees, minutes, and seconds might be a pain in the butt, but writing ASKs for linear, numeric decimals would be a relative cinch. Positive and negative numbers are also more easy to build a query around than N, S, E, and W. Also, decimal just seems so much more "machine-friendly", and that's the whole point of semantic tagging -- get human labor out of the equation.
:::Sorry about that. I had looked under NAICS 81 which had 'company_name' within the ASK query. The general Portal query just needed to be re-cached ie edit/save. Btw, I took out 'genre' in both the NPO & company infoboxes; it's probably how WP was trying to deal with industry types. Your religion tag was just duplicating the NAICS title. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:09, 14 December 2006 (PST)
:::Sorry about that. I had looked under NAICS 81 which had 'company_name' within the ASK query. The general Portal query just needed to be re-cached ie edit/save. Btw, I took out 'genre' in both the NPO & company infoboxes; it's probably how WP was trying to deal with industry types. Your religion tag was just duplicating the NAICS title. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:09, 14 December 2006 (PST)
===What Links Here===
Karl, why do you imagine that the result of the ASK query in [http://www.centiare.com/Portal:Real_Estate_and_Rental_and_Leasing Portal:Real Estate] does not automatically show up in the "What links here" for [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Directory%3APinnacle_Realty_Services What links here for Pinnacle]?
Don't get all sidetracked with this, but it makes me wonder. Does the ASK query fail to impact the "What links here" feature? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|Centiare Co-Developer]] 10:22, 15 January 2007 (PST)
:No idea. If you check [[Relation:Located_In|this ASK report]], all the links from the query show up in ''what links here''. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 14:48, 15 January 2007 (PST)
::I see that, and that's good. What I'm saying is that it doesn't seem to "go the other way". That is, when you're considering the articles that APPEAR in an ASK result, when you check "What links here" to the article, the page with the ASK form doesn't register. It's not the end of the world, but it just makes it more of a challenge for the "custodian/manager/advocate" of [[Directory:Pinnacle Realty Services|Pinnacle Realty]] to get some good cross-links INTO his Directory page. (See how I just squeezed in another link to Pinnacle? I'm shameless.) --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:21, 15 January 2007 (PST)
::For the sake of internal link promotion, I think we should just encourage users to add an "Internal Links" section to Main Space articles that they want to link back to their Directory pitches. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 05:55, 16 January 2007 (PST)
If there is room for my 2 cents in this discussion, here goes:
I disagree with encouraging an Internal links sections in main space articles. It is just duplicating what Wikipedia does and is, non semantic. The ASK query function promotes users to tag there own articles appropriately to automatically get displayed on main space (a thing of beauty). This should also motivate users to create main space articles and add an ASK query. See [[Cigarette]] with the Attribute:Keyword query. The search engines are working in some way that is not completly understandable to us. The engines will catch up or they already have. The more comfortable users become with semantic tagging and start imagining all the endless possibilities:
* more page creation
* longer visitor lengths
* more traffic
* higher page rank
* higher site rank
* a successful semantic mediawiki
If all of this happens then one backlink at Centiare is golden.--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 07:39, 16 January 2007 (PST)
:<font style="background:orange">SATIRE ALERT</font>!!
:Nobody asked you your opinion, Omni. If you continue to butt in on our Talk page discussions, we will ban your account. We are trying to build a directory, here. ...Oh. Wait. '''Sorry'''. This isn't Wikipedia, is it? ;-) --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:59, 16 January 2007 (PST)
===Tag Policy===
::Ok, I think I'm slowly catching up here. First point to MWB: I think what you were seeing is the mirror effect of 'contributor to' (directory side) & 'has contributor' (article side). If you use FULLPAGENAME in ASK, then it's only going to pick up the relationship value with the particular page name.
::Btw, one thing I've come to realize is that we ''don't necessarily need'' both sides ie if only one side has an entry, the other can get results of what links to it by running an ASK query. Of course, if both sides have entries, ASK queries can be run on either side.
::Which gets us to OMG: should a tag go on the article side or directory side? If the tag goes on the directory side, what's to stop users from tagging whatever articles they want? (I thought we only want ERB articles attributed?) Looking at the [[cigarette]] example, is this what we want regular non-protected main space articles to look like?
::Now, if we limit tags to ERB articles, someone could still run a false tag from their directory listing, but it wouldn't show up on the article side until the ASK query was refreshed. Since it would be protected (ie only the author/sysop can update it), the false link(s) would then be discovered). This would make policing abuse a little easier.
::We need to think through two things: do we want mirror relationships when we can get away with one? This cuts down on extra effort; as we've seen with 'friend of' & 'personal interest', we can still run cool ASK queries to get the results we want.
::Second, if we do encourage one sided, where does it go? I sort of vote for the article side, since it would be under control of the ERB. Contributors would only have to run an ASK query from their directory listings to get their respective attributions.
::One last thing: for user->directory 'owner of' or directory->directory 'manager of' tags, these "private" areas are outside our concern (to the extent they don't violate copyright/libel), so if they want to mirror tag their entries, more power to them. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:11, 16 January 2007 (PST)
:::Phew! That was a mouthful, Karl; but all worthwhile. I have just a few bullet-point replies:
:::* My apologies for taking away "one side" of some of the two-way relations yesterday.
:::* I think tags should go on the Main Space article side.
:::* I'm starting to agree with OmniMediaGuide, that we don't really know what's going on with Google, so our internal linking policy should not be predicated on that riddle.
:::* We need to divorce ourselves from the notion that ASK queries don't update unless the page is edited. I'm seeing all over the place, lately, that they '''DO update themselves'''. For example, the ASK query on [[Portal:Manufacturing]] was last updated December 8th; but it includes listings of Nanoventions and SuperbGreece, which didn't come into being until January. Granted, there's some kind of delay in how long it takes for qualified results to "show" themselves, but there's no denying that these queries do eventually crawl for more results and refresh themselves. Maybe it's deep within MediaWiki, that it spiders the site's ASK queries once a day or something.
:::* The ASK query on the [[Cigarette]] article is sort of how I envisioned our "power users" would start modifying the Main Space. It's not pretty. And, it might encourage long "laundry lists" of different ASK queries appearing on the same page. But, I think if our "policy" remains: "'''Main Space is community edited content'''", then people who INSERT such queries have to realize the next person who finds it too ugly or too self-serving can just delete it.
:::* If you recall, one idea I had for "controlling" this proliferation of ASK queries was to establish a two-part policy:
::::# An ASK query in Main Space must be relevant and useful to the article.
::::# An ASK query in Main Space must produce at least 3 results; otherwise, create more content or wait for such content to be created.
:::This would help to keep Main Space looking cleaner, and when ASK queries DO get installed by users, they'll actually be serving a "collective" need, and not just self-serving one person's Directory bias.
:::I think that's all I have to say now. Calling Karl. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:16, 16 January 2007 (PST)
==Special Pages==
==Special Pages==
:::I'm going to go ahead and remove the extension+call. If you see it working anywhere, we can go ahead an add it at a later date. In the future, we should probably verify an extension is working before adding to a wish list or installing it (my fault - I assumed you had been using it.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:33, 11 December 2006 (PST)
:::I'm going to go ahead and remove the extension+call. If you see it working anywhere, we can go ahead an add it at a later date. In the future, we should probably verify an extension is working before adding to a wish list or installing it (my fault - I assumed you had been using it.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:33, 11 December 2006 (PST)
===wikEd===
Here is the Wiki editor (newer version) that I had installed in Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cacycle/wikEd
Just installed in Centiare and it seems to work as is. Great for wiki lists and tables. Also strips html code.
Wondering if this could be customized to add the script (function)
To create:
<nowiki>
[[Directory:Subject|Subject]]</nowiki>
when Subject is highlighted. --[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 06:16, 22 December 2006 (PST)
:I just added both [[User:Centiare/monobook.js]] and [[User:Centiare/wikEd.js]] and it seems to work nicely - I'm seeing all sorts of interesting edit features as I type this comment. Why don't you go ahead and include wikEd.js to your User page and let me know if it works for you as well
:PS I followed the same procedures trying to get navpop to work, but a quick Google search revealed that no one outside of MWF controlled servers (projects) appeared to be able to get it to work. (It works fine for me at WP when signed in under my account.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:17, 22 December 2006 (PST).
::I went ahead and loaded wikEd.js for both of you - hope you don't mind. Let me know if it looks like it's working ok. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:41, 22 December 2006 (PST)
:::DOH! Now I get what you want. Let me look into it - if it can't be configured via monobook.js, then it would require a hack to the underlying wikEd.js. (Which, incidentally, I went back and removed since it's being externally served for now.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:18, 22 December 2006 (PST)
===Maps===
===Maps===
:::Any of them. The link to the Yahoo map shows your location. Of course, we can get the same thing from Google from your address, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the coordinates. As to placement, we can provide links or we can embed (like the youTube extension). [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:37, 11 December 2006 (PST)
:::Any of them. The link to the Yahoo map shows your location. Of course, we can get the same thing from Google from your address, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the coordinates. As to placement, we can provide links or we can embed (like the youTube extension). [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:37, 11 December 2006 (PST)
===Citation templates===
I would like to see Karl enable the 10 citation templates that are found [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_templates at Wikipedia]. I believe that these 10 should cover any attempt any user should have to factually cite and article or Directory page. I currently updated [[Directory:Gregory J. Kohs]] with a <nowiki>{{cite news}}</nowiki>, but it isn't rendering. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:08, 2 January 2007 (PST)
:Done. Please see [[Centiare:Citation_templates]] - let me know if there's anything else you need. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 11:32, 2 January 2007 (PST)
==Greeting template==
==Greeting template==
:Btw, we have another user sign-up. Do you want to send them a greeting using the template? Also, you can edit the template itself [[template:greeting|here]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 12:36, 14 December 2006 (PST)
:Btw, we have another user sign-up. Do you want to send them a greeting using the template? Also, you can edit the template itself [[template:greeting|here]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 12:36, 14 December 2006 (PST)
Karl, leaving a message as a Sysop on a user's User page (as opposed to the Talk page), as you did [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=User:Ebcdick&oldid=5464 here], renders that user "blocked" from owning/editing his own user page. We have to be VERY careful not to do that. Is there a way to "revert" that ownership now for [[User:Ebcdick]]? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:19, 2 January 2007 (PST)
==Cities & States==
==Cities & States==
::I think our general rule is that for major cities, they can listed without the state eg New York City. Second tier cities like Huntington Beach (pop 200k), if they are entered first, enjoy the same privilege. Therefore, Huntington Beach, New York would need the state qualifier if & when entered into the directory. Smaller towns should always be entered as ''city, state'' as a matter of policy. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:52, 19 December 2006 (PST)
::I think our general rule is that for major cities, they can listed without the state eg New York City. Second tier cities like Huntington Beach (pop 200k), if they are entered first, enjoy the same privilege. Therefore, Huntington Beach, New York would need the state qualifier if & when entered into the directory. Smaller towns should always be entered as ''city, state'' as a matter of policy. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:52, 19 December 2006 (PST)
===State Relations===
I've noticed that you have (are making) some Relation tag changes. Let me know when they are "set in stone" and I'll work on the rest of the United States. Thought it would be good practice for me before the KJ Kitchens project.--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 07:44, 15 January 2007 (PST)
:I should have the state relations worked out within the day - it's parallel with developing overall guidelines. The balance between attributes, relations & categories addresses not only proliferation, but ASK queries as well. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:18, 15 January 2007 (PST)
==Regions==
Karl, I see that you're adding "Region" attribute to [[Directory:Milson Printing]]. Thing is, there's more than one "Orange County" in the USA -- eight by my count, plus an American-style Beijing suburb called such. If you're going to create it, I think we should model Wikipedia, and make it (more correctly) [[Directory:Orange County, California]]. But, that brings me to the point that Milson Printing is (fictionally) in Memphis, TN. I'll come up with a Region for that.
:* I was thinking that counties would follow the city name examples (see above). That is, the most familiar names would be listed independent of states - all others would be listed with the states. Example: [[Directory:Huntington Beach, California|Huntington Beach]] and [[Directory:Huntington Beach, New York|Huntington Beach, New York]]. Likewise, [[Directory:Orange County|The OC]] and [[Directory:Orange County, Florida|Orange County, Florida]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 06:53, 9 January 2007 (PST)
::I wouldn't say that OC, CA is that much more notable than OC, FL, that it deserves "the" Orange County directory spot. But, maybe that's just me, since I lived in OC, FL for 6 years. Seems like we could defer to Wikipedia. If you type in "Orange County" there, you come to a disambiguation page, which suggests that each OC should get its state identification. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:41, 9 January 2007 (PST)
