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MyWikiBiz, Author Your Legacy — Sunday April 28, 2024
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:::: OK, I'll try and finish up NPO & Human infoboxes this week. Armed with 3 basic std infoboxes, we'll at least have infobox style guidelines for others to adapt/expand for different applications. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:30, 16 November 2006 (PST)
:::: OK, I'll try and finish up NPO & Human infoboxes this week. Armed with 3 basic std infoboxes, we'll at least have infobox style guidelines for others to adapt/expand for different applications. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:30, 16 November 2006 (PST)
Check your e-mail for my comments on Infobox Person, Personal, and Resume. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:31, 14 December 2006 (PST)
===Attributes===
Do you think we should standardize Attributes with multiple words in the '''Underscore_Between_Words''' fashion? I think it will help all users if we have some consistency there. P.S. I have taken that approach with Image names, too. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 07:41, 13 December 2006 (PST)
:I've been creating all Attributes with underscores between words. I caught the same thing yesterday - if you don't use underscores in the template/article tags themselves, they still references the proper attributes. They just don't show the underscores in the summary report at the bottom of the page.
:Speaking of style, please let me know if you like the placement of infobox_Person elements. For instance, I moved residence down below image. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:47, 13 December 2006 (PST)
==Geo Location==
==Geo Location==
:''Questions'':
:''Questions'':
:* For the lat/long semantic attributes, do we want decimal coordinates (as used in the template), or traditional? Right now I'm using traditional.
:* For the lat/long semantic attributes, do we want decimal coordinates (as used in the template), or traditional? Right now I'm using traditional.
:* What level of granularity do we need? I used [[Directory:Huntington Beach|Huntington Beach]] for Centiare, but it only provides a general view. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:29, 7 December 2006 (PST)
:* What level of granularity do we need? I used [[Directory:Huntington Beach, California|Huntington Beach]] for Centiare, but it only provides a general view. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:29, 7 December 2006 (PST)
::Personally, I prefer the decimal method of coordinates. I'll bet that they would work better in the triple-search tool (as one could just enter the coordinate detail as deep as they care to go -- no decimal, a tenth, a hundredth, etc.). I imagine that writing an ASK query for degrees, minutes, and seconds might be a pain in the butt, but writing ASKs for linear, numeric decimals would be a relative cinch. Positive and negative numbers are also more easy to build a query around than N, S, E, and W. Also, decimal just seems so much more "machine-friendly", and that's the whole point of semantic tagging -- get human labor out of the equation.
::Personally, I prefer the decimal method of coordinates. I'll bet that they would work better in the triple-search tool (as one could just enter the coordinate detail as deep as they care to go -- no decimal, a tenth, a hundredth, etc.). I imagine that writing an ASK query for degrees, minutes, and seconds might be a pain in the butt, but writing ASKs for linear, numeric decimals would be a relative cinch. Positive and negative numbers are also more easy to build a query around than N, S, E, and W. Also, decimal just seems so much more "machine-friendly", and that's the whole point of semantic tagging -- get human labor out of the equation.
:My mistake. I commented to your gallery experiment, and then kept posting there instead of to your user a/c. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:16, 4 December 2006 (PST)
:My mistake. I commented to your gallery experiment, and then kept posting there instead of to your user a/c. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:16, 4 December 2006 (PST)
Whoa -- why did [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=Directory%3AGregory_J._Kohs&diff=4005&oldid=4003 '''this'''] mess up the Infobox? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:13, 13 December 2006 (PST)
==ASK==
==ASK==
:::Btw, remember that ASK can be run from anywhere, so users aren't limited to searching on NAICS categories. (Though that is the preference with Portals.) For example, someone could easily run an ASK query for all deaths on [[December/20|December 20]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:59, 4 December 2006 (PST)
:::Btw, remember that ASK can be run from anywhere, so users aren't limited to searching on NAICS categories. (Though that is the preference with Portals.) For example, someone could easily run an ASK query for all deaths on [[December/20|December 20]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:59, 4 December 2006 (PST)
Take a look at the bottom of [[Portal:List]]. Is there a way to build this ASK query, so that it's not just showing "Companies" that have tagged NAICS_Code1, but any page that has done so? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:23, 11 December 2006 (PST)
:ASK filters are ''additive''; that is, each additional requirement restricts the results. To broaden the results, take out the respective restrictions - in this case, [[Portal:List|company_name]].
Once again, I'm missing something. Why doesn't Church of the Loving Shepherd appear in [[Portal:List]], once I've saved CLS with the NAICS_Code1 tag? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 06:47, 14 December 2006 (PST)
:You had company_name as a filter. Do not become a programmer;-0 Btw, I also added the nonprofit_name attribute tag to your church listing. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 06:52, 14 December 2006 (PST)
::I beg to differ! On the [[Portal:List]] ASK query, I thought I (we?) removed the Company_name filter, so that the list would find all "entities" (as I re-labeled it) with NAICS_Code1 tags. I'm fine with the advice to not become a programmer, but just make [[Portal:List]] work for all entities, please. ;-) --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:55, 14 December 2006 (PST)
:::Sorry about that. I had looked under NAICS 81 which had 'company_name' within the ASK query. The general Portal query just needed to be re-cached ie edit/save. Btw, I took out 'genre' in both the NPO & company infoboxes; it's probably how WP was trying to deal with industry types. Your religion tag was just duplicating the NAICS title. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:09, 14 December 2006 (PST)
===What Links Here===
Karl, why do you imagine that the result of the ASK query in [http://www.centiare.com/Portal:Real_Estate_and_Rental_and_Leasing Portal:Real Estate] does not automatically show up in the "What links here" for [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Directory%3APinnacle_Realty_Services What links here for Pinnacle]?
Don't get all sidetracked with this, but it makes me wonder. Does the ASK query fail to impact the "What links here" feature? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|Centiare Co-Developer]] 10:22, 15 January 2007 (PST)
:No idea. If you check [[Relation:Located_In|this ASK report]], all the links from the query show up in ''what links here''. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 14:48, 15 January 2007 (PST)
::I see that, and that's good. What I'm saying is that it doesn't seem to "go the other way". That is, when you're considering the articles that APPEAR in an ASK result, when you check "What links here" to the article, the page with the ASK form doesn't register. It's not the end of the world, but it just makes it more of a challenge for the "custodian/manager/advocate" of [[Directory:Pinnacle Realty Services|Pinnacle Realty]] to get some good cross-links INTO his Directory page. (See how I just squeezed in another link to Pinnacle? I'm shameless.) --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:21, 15 January 2007 (PST)
::For the sake of internal link promotion, I think we should just encourage users to add an "Internal Links" section to Main Space articles that they want to link back to their Directory pitches. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 05:55, 16 January 2007 (PST)
If there is room for my 2 cents in this discussion, here goes:
I disagree with encouraging an Internal links sections in main space articles. It is just duplicating what Wikipedia does and is, non semantic. The ASK query function promotes users to tag there own articles appropriately to automatically get displayed on main space (a thing of beauty). This should also motivate users to create main space articles and add an ASK query. See [[Cigarette]] with the Attribute:Keyword query. The search engines are working in some way that is not completly understandable to us. The engines will catch up or they already have. The more comfortable users become with semantic tagging and start imagining all the endless possibilities:
* more page creation
* longer visitor lengths
* more traffic
* higher page rank
* higher site rank
* a successful semantic mediawiki
If all of this happens then one backlink at Centiare is golden.--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 07:39, 16 January 2007 (PST)
:<font style="background:orange">SATIRE ALERT</font>!!
:Nobody asked you your opinion, Omni. If you continue to butt in on our Talk page discussions, we will ban your account. We are trying to build a directory, here. ...Oh. Wait. '''Sorry'''. This isn't Wikipedia, is it? ;-) --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:59, 16 January 2007 (PST)
===Tag Policy===
::Ok, I think I'm slowly catching up here. First point to MWB: I think what you were seeing is the mirror effect of 'contributor to' (directory side) & 'has contributor' (article side). If you use FULLPAGENAME in ASK, then it's only going to pick up the relationship value with the particular page name.
::Btw, one thing I've come to realize is that we ''don't necessarily need'' both sides ie if only one side has an entry, the other can get results of what links to it by running an ASK query. Of course, if both sides have entries, ASK queries can be run on either side.
::Which gets us to OMG: should a tag go on the article side or directory side? If the tag goes on the directory side, what's to stop users from tagging whatever articles they want? (I thought we only want ERB articles attributed?) Looking at the [[cigarette]] example, is this what we want regular non-protected main space articles to look like?
::Now, if we limit tags to ERB articles, someone could still run a false tag from their directory listing, but it wouldn't show up on the article side until the ASK query was refreshed. Since it would be protected (ie only the author/sysop can update it), the false link(s) would then be discovered). This would make policing abuse a little easier.
::We need to think through two things: do we want mirror relationships when we can get away with one? This cuts down on extra effort; as we've seen with 'friend of' & 'personal interest', we can still run cool ASK queries to get the results we want.
::Second, if we do encourage one sided, where does it go? I sort of vote for the article side, since it would be under control of the ERB. Contributors would only have to run an ASK query from their directory listings to get their respective attributions.
::One last thing: for user->directory 'owner of' or directory->directory 'manager of' tags, these "private" areas are outside our concern (to the extent they don't violate copyright/libel), so if they want to mirror tag their entries, more power to them. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:11, 16 January 2007 (PST)
:::Phew! That was a mouthful, Karl; but all worthwhile. I have just a few bullet-point replies:
:::* My apologies for taking away "one side" of some of the two-way relations yesterday.
:::* I think tags should go on the Main Space article side.
:::* I'm starting to agree with OmniMediaGuide, that we don't really know what's going on with Google, so our internal linking policy should not be predicated on that riddle.
:::* We need to divorce ourselves from the notion that ASK queries don't update unless the page is edited. I'm seeing all over the place, lately, that they '''DO update themselves'''. For example, the ASK query on [[Portal:Manufacturing]] was last updated December 8th; but it includes listings of Nanoventions and SuperbGreece, which didn't come into being until January. Granted, there's some kind of delay in how long it takes for qualified results to "show" themselves, but there's no denying that these queries do eventually crawl for more results and refresh themselves. Maybe it's deep within MediaWiki, that it spiders the site's ASK queries once a day or something.
:::* The ASK query on the [[Cigarette]] article is sort of how I envisioned our "power users" would start modifying the Main Space. It's not pretty. And, it might encourage long "laundry lists" of different ASK queries appearing on the same page. But, I think if our "policy" remains: "'''Main Space is community edited content'''", then people who INSERT such queries have to realize the next person who finds it too ugly or too self-serving can just delete it.
:::* If you recall, one idea I had for "controlling" this proliferation of ASK queries was to establish a two-part policy:
::::# An ASK query in Main Space must be relevant and useful to the article.
::::# An ASK query in Main Space must produce at least 3 results; otherwise, create more content or wait for such content to be created.
:::This would help to keep Main Space looking cleaner, and when ASK queries DO get installed by users, they'll actually be serving a "collective" need, and not just self-serving one person's Directory bias.
:::I think that's all I have to say now. Calling Karl. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:16, 16 January 2007 (PST)
==Special Pages==
==Special Pages==
==Extensions Wanted==
==Extensions Wanted==
===General===
It sure would be nice to know if Centiare could accomodate the following extensions, which would be amazingly useful for the right kinds of Centiare users:
It sure would be nice to know if Centiare could accomodate the following extensions, which would be amazingly useful for the right kinds of Centiare users:
:*The [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics Google Analytics] embedder, so users could keep track of traffic statistics to their favorite articles. I'm curious if multiple users can code the same article, and also how it "appears" on the page (if at all).
:*The [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics Google Analytics] embedder, so users could keep track of traffic statistics to their favorite articles. I'm curious if multiple users can code the same article, and also how it "appears" on the page (if at all).
:These types of simple extensions are very easy to add. Go ahead and put together a list of others that you would like to see. As for the two above, youTube is ok, but analytics doesn't appear to be [[user:Centiare|working]] - you can check the author's own site as well. Do you have an example where it's working? [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:38, 11 December 2006 (PST)
:These types of simple extensions are very easy to add. Go ahead and put together a list of others that you would like to see. As for the two above, youTube is ok, but analytics doesn't appear to be [[user:Centiare|working]] - you can check the author's own site as well. Do you have an example where it's working? [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:38, 11 December 2006 (PST)
:Speaking of extensions, which Google maps did you want to include to pinpoint your address from lat/long? The [http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?lat=39.939586787168835&lon=-75.6117832660675&mag=4 Yahoo] map link from MWB looks like it's correctly identifying your address. Btw, your pop-up ad appears to messing up page rendering. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:08, 11 December 2006 (PST)
::No, I don't have any example of the Google Analytics for MediaWiki working anywhere. Just saw it on their list, and went ga-ga, thinking of the opportunity of its use. It looks like [http://www.stoltenow.com/archives/2006/09/adding_google_a.html this post] suggests that you'd have to add it to one of the MediaWiki "skins" to get it to work, but presumably, only within that skin. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:13, 11 December 2006 (PST)
:::That's a modification to the core extension that requires a ''hack'' to the underlying MediaWiki code. You never, ever want to do that. Well, maybe in extreme circumstances where one knows exactly what's happening and controls the output. I've done a few to suit very specific purposes, but they're tested extensively and well documented. You definitely don't want to do something like that for some generic hook extension.
:::I'm going to go ahead and remove the extension+call. If you see it working anywhere, we can go ahead an add it at a later date. In the future, we should probably verify an extension is working before adding to a wish list or installing it (my fault - I assumed you had been using it.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:33, 11 December 2006 (PST)
===wikEd===
Here is the Wiki editor (newer version) that I had installed in Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cacycle/wikEd
Just installed in Centiare and it seems to work as is. Great for wiki lists and tables. Also strips html code.
Wondering if this could be customized to add the script (function)
To create:
<nowiki>
[[Directory:Subject|Subject]]</nowiki>
when Subject is highlighted. --[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 06:16, 22 December 2006 (PST)
:I just added both [[User:Centiare/monobook.js]] and [[User:Centiare/wikEd.js]] and it seems to work nicely - I'm seeing all sorts of interesting edit features as I type this comment. Why don't you go ahead and include wikEd.js to your User page and let me know if it works for you as well
:PS I followed the same procedures trying to get navpop to work, but a quick Google search revealed that no one outside of MWF controlled servers (projects) appeared to be able to get it to work. (It works fine for me at WP when signed in under my account.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:17, 22 December 2006 (PST).
::I went ahead and loaded wikEd.js for both of you - hope you don't mind. Let me know if it looks like it's working ok. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:41, 22 December 2006 (PST)
:::DOH! Now I get what you want. Let me look into it - if it can't be configured via monobook.js, then it would require a hack to the underlying wikEd.js. (Which, incidentally, I went back and removed since it's being externally served for now.) [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:18, 22 December 2006 (PST)
===Maps===
:Speaking of extensions, which Google maps did you want to include to pinpoint your address from lat/long? The [http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?lat=39.939586787168835&lon=-75.6117832660675&mag=4 Yahoo] map link from MWB looks like it's correctly identifying your address. (The Yahoo map ID is '4', whereas Google is just reading the coords - can you find their option code?) Btw, your pop-up ad appears to interfering with the [[Directory:MyWikiBiz|page rendering]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:08, 11 December 2006 (PST)
::Google Zoom Level is discussed as a "trial and error" right [http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/08/10/google-maps.html?page=2 here]. Was your question meant to say, which (of Map, Satellite, or Hybrid) form of Google Maps did I want to include? Actually, what do you mean "include" -- as in, an actual map rendering in the Infobox? I don't know if we need to go there yet. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:26, 11 December 2006 (PST)
:::Any of them. The link to the Yahoo map shows your location. Of course, we can get the same thing from Google from your address, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the coordinates. As to placement, we can provide links or we can embed (like the youTube extension). [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:37, 11 December 2006 (PST)
===Citation templates===
I would like to see Karl enable the 10 citation templates that are found [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_templates at Wikipedia]. I believe that these 10 should cover any attempt any user should have to factually cite and article or Directory page. I currently updated [[Directory:Gregory J. Kohs]] with a <nowiki>{{cite news}}</nowiki>, but it isn't rendering. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:08, 2 January 2007 (PST)
:Done. Please see [[Centiare:Citation_templates]] - let me know if there's anything else you need. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 11:32, 2 January 2007 (PST)
==Greeting template==
Karl, your greeting found on [[User_talk:Eshock]] still isn't quite ready for prime time. If they wish to duplicate the "Personal" box, the code for it is invisibly "buried" within the greet template. Further, I'm not sure the "Personal" box is looking exactly the best it could. Namely, the "Married / Name" portion looks a little clunky. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 12:26, 14 December 2006 (PST)
:Added a link to my user page to pull up the code. As for infobox_personal, all fields are optional. That is, other than the box, header & colors, the look/feel is all based on '''your''' element stream from your Directory listing. Please play around with it till you feel satisfied with the results.
:Btw, we have another user sign-up. Do you want to send them a greeting using the template? Also, you can edit the template itself [[template:greeting|here]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 12:36, 14 December 2006 (PST)
Karl, leaving a message as a Sysop on a user's User page (as opposed to the Talk page), as you did [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=User:Ebcdick&oldid=5464 here], renders that user "blocked" from owning/editing his own user page. We have to be VERY careful not to do that. Is there a way to "revert" that ownership now for [[User:Ebcdick]]? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:19, 2 January 2007 (PST)
==Cities & States==
I don't think [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=Directory:Gregory_J._Kohs&diff=prev&oldid=4545 this] is a good edit. First, the likelihood that particular governments of cities are going to step into Centiare anytime soon is limited. So, why not leave cities, for the time being, in Main space? Furthermore, even when city governments take ownership of the space, I thought it will be entitled <nowiki>[[Directory:City of Jackson, Michigan]]</nowiki>, not <nowiki>[[Directory:Jackson, Michigan]]</nowiki>. The government can't/shouldn't take ownership of the history, geography, economy, and personal experiences that are related to the city. Final note -- we can't just make Directory or Main space articles for "Jackson", and just assume that will be the ONLY Jackson (the one in Michigan). There are Jacksons in Tennessee and Mississippi, and probably a good number of other states. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 18:39, 18 December 2006 (PST)
:While admittedly a little tenuous, I disagree on all counts:
:# All incorporated cities (thereby qualifying for Directory status), no matter how small, have some sort of Web page or city directory. For example, we did a road trip last summer through the Midwest, and little towns with populations under 5k had info sites. Bigger cities definitely have tie-ins to their visitor bureaus or CofCs. So to say that they can't or shouldn't have control is incorrect.
:# I think naming conventions should always be the name first, then any qualifying information. For example, Directory:Jackson, Michigan. Right now, we only have the one Jackson, so I guess I got lazy.
:# Once we have multiple listings (cities and otherwise), such as Jackson, this will entail the creation of disambiguation pages no different than WP.
:When in doubt as to placement, think about the entity rule. Even though it may seem non-intuitive, at first, to place governments in the Directory namespace, at the end of the day, these public entities most definitely have ''pride of ownership'' about their towns and are possessive about their economics, history, etc.
:I guess we can monitor the situation if users post info to the Main page for places like NYC, but then again, when does it fall under the purview of the visitor&conference bureau? The whole point of the Directory is for APOV - you don't think cities like [http://www.cityofjackson.org/ Jackson] want to sell & advocate their towns? [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:33, 19 December 2006 (PST)
::I went back and modified Jackson, Winter Park & West Chester in both the Kohs main body and infobox. Note that we use the city name ''only'' as an attribute tag - state identity is achieved with the accompanying state attribute name.
::I think our general rule is that for major cities, they can listed without the state eg New York City. Second tier cities like Huntington Beach (pop 200k), if they are entered first, enjoy the same privilege. Therefore, Huntington Beach, New York would need the state qualifier if & when entered into the directory. Smaller towns should always be entered as ''city, state'' as a matter of policy. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:52, 19 December 2006 (PST)
===State Relations===
I've noticed that you have (are making) some Relation tag changes. Let me know when they are "set in stone" and I'll work on the rest of the United States. Thought it would be good practice for me before the KJ Kitchens project.--[[User:OmniMediaGroup|OmniMediaGroup]] 07:44, 15 January 2007 (PST)
:I should have the state relations worked out within the day - it's parallel with developing overall guidelines. The balance between attributes, relations & categories addresses not only proliferation, but ASK queries as well. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:18, 15 January 2007 (PST)
==Regions==
Karl, I see that you're adding "Region" attribute to [[Directory:Milson Printing]]. Thing is, there's more than one "Orange County" in the USA -- eight by my count, plus an American-style Beijing suburb called such. If you're going to create it, I think we should model Wikipedia, and make it (more correctly) [[Directory:Orange County, California]]. But, that brings me to the point that Milson Printing is (fictionally) in Memphis, TN. I'll come up with a Region for that.
:* I was thinking that counties would follow the city name examples (see above). That is, the most familiar names would be listed independent of states - all others would be listed with the states. Example: [[Directory:Huntington Beach, California|Huntington Beach]] and [[Directory:Huntington Beach, New York|Huntington Beach, New York]]. Likewise, [[Directory:Orange County|The OC]] and [[Directory:Orange County, Florida|Orange County, Florida]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 06:53, 9 January 2007 (PST)
::I wouldn't say that OC, CA is that much more notable than OC, FL, that it deserves "the" Orange County directory spot. But, maybe that's just me, since I lived in OC, FL for 6 years. Seems like we could defer to Wikipedia. If you type in "Orange County" there, you come to a disambiguation page, which suggests that each OC should get its state identification. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:41, 9 January 2007 (PST)
