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Help:Water Cooler (miscellaneous) (view source)

Revision as of 02:01, 30 August 2008

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→‎Scope?: The scope is (almost) boundless
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{{WaterCoolerPages|Miscellaneous|The '''miscellaneous''' section of the water cooler is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please try to post within [[Centiare:Water Cooler (news)|news]], [[Centiare:Water Cooler (policy)|policy]], [[Centiare:Water Cooler (technical)|technical]], [[Centiare:Water Cooler (proposals)|proposals]] or [[Centiare:Water Cooler (assistance)|assistance]] rather than here.}}
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{{WaterCoolerPages|Miscellaneous|The '''miscellaneous''' section of the water cooler is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please try to post within [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (news)|news]], [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (policy)|policy]], [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (technical)|technical]], [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (proposals)|proposals]] or [[MyWikiBiz:Water Cooler (assistance)|assistance]] rather than here.}}
 
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With continuing reports of dissatisfaction amongst wikipedians, it's becoming more evident that [[keyword:=Wikipedia's business model is fundamentally flawed]]. Without the ability to protect one's contributions, and/or debate in a fair and rational manner without undo favoritism given towards certain (cabals of) editors, the incentives to create original content becomes somewhat muted.
 
With continuing reports of dissatisfaction amongst wikipedians, it's becoming more evident that [[keyword:=Wikipedia's business model is fundamentally flawed]]. Without the ability to protect one's contributions, and/or debate in a fair and rational manner without undo favoritism given towards certain (cabals of) editors, the incentives to create original content becomes somewhat muted.
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We feel Centiare addresses these main points by providing both protected Directory space for advocacy and traditional main space NPOV. Even better, via the [[Centiare:Aficionados|Aficionados]] mechanism, we provide a legitimate means of allowing users to cross-reference interests/contributions from main space articles to directory listings. In this way, ''[[keyword:=Aficionados]]'' eliminate the temptation for main space link spam and/or other commercial activities, and helps keeps main space articles clean and on-point.
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We feel Centiare addresses these main points by providing both protected Directory space for advocacy and traditional main space NPOV. Even better, via the [[MyWikiBiz:Aficionados|Aficionados]] mechanism, we provide a legitimate means of allowing users to cross-reference interests/contributions from main space articles to directory listings. In this way, ''[[keyword:=Aficionados]]'' eliminate the temptation for main space link spam and/or other commercial activities, and helps keeps main space articles clean and on-point.
    
Given Centiare's technical (semantic tags, protected space) & policy advantages, we feel it's the proper time to discuss what marketing & promotional efforts might be undertaken to increase overall awareness. The remainder of this section is an open forum to discuss ideas, initiatives and other activities. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:25, 3 March 2007 (PST)
 
Given Centiare's technical (semantic tags, protected space) & policy advantages, we feel it's the proper time to discuss what marketing & promotional efforts might be undertaken to increase overall awareness. The remainder of this section is an open forum to discuss ideas, initiatives and other activities. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 13:25, 3 March 2007 (PST)
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===Spring 2007 - Organization/Association marketing===
 
===Spring 2007 - Organization/Association marketing===
 
It is my goal to contact at least 500 different organizations and associations that aggregate the types of entities who would be welcome at Centiare (e.g., Little League Baseball, the American Dental Association, League of Women Voters, etc.)  I want my message to be clear and three-fold:
 
It is my goal to contact at least 500 different organizations and associations that aggregate the types of entities who would be welcome at Centiare (e.g., Little League Baseball, the American Dental Association, League of Women Voters, etc.)  I want my message to be clear and three-fold:
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#The organization should have its own article within the Centiare [[Centiare:Directory Space|Directory Space]] (e.g., [[Directory:American Dental Association]])
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#The organization should have its own article within the Centiare [[MyWikiBiz:Directory Space|Directory Space]] (e.g., [[Directory:American Dental Association]])
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#The organization should contribute to relevant articles within the Centiare [[Centiare:Main Space|Main Space]] (e.g., [[Dentistry]], [[Bruxism]], [[Gingivitis]])
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#The organization should contribute to relevant articles within the Centiare [[MyWikiBiz:Main Space|Main Space]] (e.g., [[Dentistry]], [[Bruxism]], [[Gingivitis]])
 
#The organization, once it sees the benefits of Centiare and its inherent advantages over Wikipedia, should encourage its members to create their own Directory articles (e.g., [[Directory:Delores M. Dains, DDS]], [[Directory:Monarch Dental Associates]])
 
#The organization, once it sees the benefits of Centiare and its inherent advantages over Wikipedia, should encourage its members to create their own Directory articles (e.g., [[Directory:Delores M. Dains, DDS]], [[Directory:Monarch Dental Associates]])
 
For each of the recipients, it is my intent to customize the letter so that:
 
For each of the recipients, it is my intent to customize the letter so that:
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According to '''comScore''', nearly 165 million unique visitors made use of the online encyclopedia '''Wikipedia''' in the final month of 2006.  Doubtless, many of these people are searching for information about your organization.  As the +ORGANIZATION+’s +TITLE+, I’m sure you’re aware of your group’s own article on Wikipedia, but isn't it frustrating that you don't have control over the content presented in that community-edited space?
 
According to '''comScore''', nearly 165 million unique visitors made use of the online encyclopedia '''Wikipedia''' in the final month of 2006.  Doubtless, many of these people are searching for information about your organization.  As the +ORGANIZATION+’s +TITLE+, I’m sure you’re aware of your group’s own article on Wikipedia, but isn't it frustrating that you don't have control over the content presented in that community-edited space?
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There is a new way to capitalize on the wiki information revolution.  My partners and I feel that Wikipedia is flawed in that it has an inherent (if not pernicious) bias against businesses and organizations, and that its so-called "facts" can't really be trusted.  That’s why we've built an alternative wiki directory called '''Centiare.com'''.  At '''Centiare''', we welcome and encourage organizations like your own to come and tell your story the way ''you want it to be told''.   
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My partners and I feel that Wikipedia is flawed in that it has an inherent (if not pernicious) bias against businesses and organizations, and that its so-called "facts" can't really be trusted.  Fortunately, there is now a better way for organizations to capitalize on the wiki information revolution.  We've built an alternative wiki directory called '''Centiare.com'''.  At '''Centiare''', we welcome and encourage organizations like your own to come and tell your story the way ''you want it to be told''.   
    
'''Centiare''' offers a quick, easy way for you to create a high-ranking Directory listing that ''you'' control.  And, it's absolutely free to use.
 
'''Centiare''' offers a quick, easy way for you to create a high-ranking Directory listing that ''you'' control.  And, it's absolutely free to use.
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::The semantic tagging feature is another value statement, but very few people are going to understand it...  so don't muddle the message
 
::The semantic tagging feature is another value statement, but very few people are going to understand it...  so don't muddle the message
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::In short, the pitch to organizations and their members should be:  ''Centiare offers a quick, easy way for you to create a high-quality directory listing that you control.''  
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::In short, the pitch to organizations and their members should be:  ''Centiare offers a quick, easy way for you to create a high-quality directory listing that you control.'' [[User:Wygk|Wygk]] 12:07, 6 March 2007 (PST)
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[[User:Wygk|Wygk]] 12:07, 6 March 2007 (PST)
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:::So you like the Wikicompany forms as well? We could do something like that to create an initial entry which could then be edited/refined. However, a big drawback with forms is that it distorts a key advantage of Wikipedia or Centiare, namely that it's completely free-form. Once you begin directing user content, then by definition, you will typically get what you directed.
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:::It's why the Wikimedia Foundation seemingly backed off on their Wikidata project (correct me if I'm wrong). It's just counter-intuitive to a wiki environment. In our case, directory listings include any entity (person, place or thing) that has a legal standing. So what should be included in a form, or do we now need multiple forms? You see where this leads - people then need to be informed that there are different forms, etc.
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:::I'm not sure sure that we want to take a direction away from the traditional infoboxes - it's why we use them. The professional look & feel one can achieve in a very short time is unsurpassed. Certainly, no one can create a look like that in a LAMP environment in such a short time.
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:::My background is with structured data, which is why I embraced the MediaWiki platform. The poor overall look & feel of Wikicompany is a good example of what happens when efforts are extended in data collection/validation as opposed to presentation.
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:::My feeling at this point is that we're dealing with a market awareness issue, not a usability problem. I should mention that we have a custom user <s>class</s> level called '''''vusers''''' that gives them the ability to make edits of directory listings without impacting their overall protection scheme. In this way, we have a couple of wikipedians helping out by providing editing services to others that don't have the skills necessary to pull together a really professional looking listing.
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:::You would be an excellent candidate for this <s>class</s> level if you're interested. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 15:15, 6 March 2007 (PST)
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::::I happen to think that we have as much a usability issue as an awareness issue.  We have had about 150 users register an account (that is our base of "interested awareness"), but 80 of them have not made a single edit, another 35 have made less than 5 total edits, and only about 12 or 13 unique people have made more than 20 edits.  If less than 10% of our registered accounts are really availing themselves of content creation, we are facing:
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::::#An initial market of 90% "non-savvy" wiki coders
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::::#A failure to communicate the benefits of listing content
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::::#Not doing enough to "win back" dormant accounts
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::::Take, for example, the fact that I have pitched Centiare to my 30+ MySpace friends, and probably 30+ additional e-mail friends.  I think two people have registered from that communication, and neither of them have built out content.  When I describe the site in person, for instance, at a party -- people seem to think it's a good idea.  But ask them, "Have you ever edited Wikipedia?" and you get either "No, I've looked, but not edited" or "What's Wikipedia?".
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::::I think we just have to keep plugging away until we hit that critical mass (hopefully close to simultaneously) when enough new businesses, organizations, people, and zealots want to be a part of Centiare every day; but those who are intimidated by "doing it yourself" will have a choice of paid assistants to serve them (a la MyWikiBiz or Page Creations).  If wikis do start to take hold in the American office space, we will surely get more capable "do it yourself" users (and evangelists) from that realm.  --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:22, 6 March 2007 (PST)
    
==Make it Viral==
 
==Make it Viral==
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1. contact a professional. List wiki developers than can boost the rankings and qualities of their listings (i.e. me)
 
1. contact a professional. List wiki developers than can boost the rankings and qualities of their listings (i.e. me)
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2. Start the centiare tutorial. Create a super simple [[blah:= is an attribute
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2. Start the centiare tutorial. Create a super simple attribute
    
3. No thanks, just show me my listing.
 
3. No thanks, just show me my listing.
    
Then a final away message "Thanks for creating a centiare listing"
 
Then a final away message "Thanks for creating a centiare listing"
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==Input Forms==
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OK, I'll take a look at putting together an input form similar to Wikicompany. I don't want to start creating multiple forms since that will just put us right back in the training->learning curve arena. What I'll do is utilize the generic [[Attribute:Common Name]] to capture any name used, whether it's a business, NPO, personal, etc. I'll round out the form to capture some address information and that should be that. The user and/or editor can always come back and clean up and/or flesh out the entry by adding infoboxes, etc. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 21:18, 6 March 2007 (PST)
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:Let's 86 the form idea. I don't like it anymore. To much of a possibility for crappy looking pages. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]]
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::While I agree the pages won't look too swell, I disagree with nixing the idea.  I think the forms will appeal to (hopefully) half of the 70% of our users who seem to be registering and not doing ANYTHING.  I know, it's like asking to do a "paint by numbers" portrait of a sailboat when you have an hour's private lesson with Pablo Picasso.  But, if we can appeal to more users, that's what we should do.
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::I think it will help us to get quantity, and eventually, as the users mature, there will be more careful development of their pages -- either by themselves, or as a result of accepting "offers" to do so by '''MyWikiBiz''' or '''Page Creations''' types of stylists. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 15:07, 8 March 2007 (PST)
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:::Admittedly, any form driven input will fall far short of the type of professional looking pages one can render at Centiare simply due to its fixed/static nature. I still thank our lucky stars that we decided, as one of our top priorities, to meet/exceed the capabilities of Wikipedia. This, in essence, means a free-form editing environment.
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:::That being said, I've come full circle and now agree with Greg that we should have a simple/fast input capability as well. Even better, it doesn't necessarily have to appeal to business owners. It could work just as well, given the right incentives, where there could be tens/hundreds of young entrepreneurs under Garrett's direction quickly inputting business listings.
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:::What's the payoff? How about the inclusion of an optional field where one could enter their Google Adsense account? That way, a quick 7-10 data element (name, address, phone, NAICS, zip, etc) entry could be made along with the originators' Adsense ads. To take it one step further, I could add other additional fields for interests, which then would be linked via aficionados from any Main page articles.
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:::IOW, it would incentivize, in the same exact method as the [[Directory:Sylvie De Caluwé|Belgium Bomb]], the rapid build out of content. Except in this case someone could probably add 15+ entries per hour instead of one. [[User:Snerfling|Snerfling]] 17:31, 8 March 2007 (PST)
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==Scope?==
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Suppose we had a bunch of farmers on here who create pages about their business and what they do. If they wanted to use MyWikiBiz to conduct B2B business, like selling, or organizing labor, would that be within its scope? What if they wanted to advertise positions? What is the scope of MyWikiBiz? [[User:Remi|Remi]] 13:49, 29 August 2008 (PDT)
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:Farmers, textile mill workers, astrophysicists... I don't care. Anyone is welcome to use this wiki directory as a forum for marketing, trade, or labor.  My only caution: we are somewhat limited by the twin nature of our [[Help:Directory Space|Directory Space]] (closed to one registered author per page) and [[Help:Main Space|Main Space]] (open to any author) pages.  There's no convenient way to "limit" a set of pages on MyWikiBiz to a finite "group" or "community" of selected members.  It's either '''one''' or '''all''' may edit, in Directory or Main space, respectively.  For finite groups of members who which to collaborate, without interference from the "outside world", I do recommend [http://www.wetpaint.com WetPaint.com]] as an excellent resource. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:01, 29 August 2008 (PDT)
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