Difference between revisions of "User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas"
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'''[[Directory:The Wikipedia Point of View/Wikipedia & Political Agendas|Parent article]]''' | '''[[Directory:The Wikipedia Point of View/Wikipedia & Political Agendas|Parent article]]''' | ||
− | The '''History of the Balkan states''' is a complex affair. Since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the former Yugoslavia, evidence has emerged that portrays the Communist Party of Yugoslavia and its leader | + | The '''History of the Balkan states''' is a complex affair. Since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the former Yugoslavia, evidence has emerged that portrays the Communist Party of Yugoslavia and its leader Josip Broz Tito in a totally different light. His regime now seems to be much more '''Stalinist''' [http://books.google.com/books?id=N1j1QdPMockC&pg=PA354&lpg=PA354&dq=Frank+Waddams,+a+British+representative+who+had+lived+outside+of+Belgrade&source=bl&ots=0ogZwcLZau&sig=fTZXy1TLYBQBJnbyYCoeyZ61ABw&hl=en&ei=e13IStXNJZiQ6APPjMXKDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=Frank%20Waddams%2C%20a%20British%20representative%20who%20had%20lived%20outside%20of%20Belgrade&f=false][http://books.google.com/books?id=3WLxbI1EhFAC&pg=PA312&dq=Josip+broz+tito+Cult+of+Personality&lr=#v=onepage&q=Josip%20broz%20tito%20Cult%20of%20Personality&f=false] than the image that was portrayed to the people of Yugoslavia and to the West during the Cold War. Josip Broz Tito Commander of all Partisans and Communists during WWII oversaw some of the worst war crimes know to mankind. There are books, articles (writtem by professionals) as well as TV documentaries (some were aired on BBC 4 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kspj_4TcjOQ&feature=related] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2uvudCq2q8&feature=PlayList&p=1DFEA72867B14F6F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1]) in which people testified to the truth of these historical events. |
The notorious Bleiburg [http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/09/world/evolution-in-europe-piles-of-bones-in-yugoslavia-point-to-partisan-massacres.html?pagewanted=all] [http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/yugoslav-hist1.htm] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleiburg_massacre] and Foibe massacres [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360429.stm] [http://miran.pecenik.com/ts/balkan/balkan6.htm] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foibe_massacres] were two of these. | The notorious Bleiburg [http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/09/world/evolution-in-europe-piles-of-bones-in-yugoslavia-point-to-partisan-massacres.html?pagewanted=all] [http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/yugoslav-hist1.htm] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleiburg_massacre] and Foibe massacres [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360429.stm] [http://miran.pecenik.com/ts/balkan/balkan6.htm] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foibe_massacres] were two of these. | ||
The articles that appear in Wikipedia (as of 2009) do not reflect this modern view of the former Yugoslavia. They still adhere to and reflect the propaganda of the former '''Communist Party of Yugoslavia''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Yugoslavia]. The article about the Dictator Josip Broz Tito is written in a child-like manner, similar to a Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s. From the late 1960’s to the 1970’s, economic decisions that were made by Josip Broz and the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, put the country in a disastrous political situation. Ironically the article on Tito does not even mention the fact that he was a Dictator [http://newsnbuzz.com/world/inside-titos-luxury-playground.html] or his Cult of Personality [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUZx70JDseU&feature=related] [http://books.google.it/books?id=TjOsyebOTS8C&pg=PA152&dq=yugoslavia+tito+cult&lr=&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=yugoslavia%20tito%20cult&f=false]. None of this information is presented in a professional encyclopedic fashion and when qualified references are presented to prove otherwise, Wikipedia Admin meets it with silence. Why is this the case? | The articles that appear in Wikipedia (as of 2009) do not reflect this modern view of the former Yugoslavia. They still adhere to and reflect the propaganda of the former '''Communist Party of Yugoslavia''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Yugoslavia]. The article about the Dictator Josip Broz Tito is written in a child-like manner, similar to a Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s. From the late 1960’s to the 1970’s, economic decisions that were made by Josip Broz and the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, put the country in a disastrous political situation. Ironically the article on Tito does not even mention the fact that he was a Dictator [http://newsnbuzz.com/world/inside-titos-luxury-playground.html] or his Cult of Personality [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUZx70JDseU&feature=related] [http://books.google.it/books?id=TjOsyebOTS8C&pg=PA152&dq=yugoslavia+tito+cult&lr=&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=yugoslavia%20tito%20cult&f=false]. None of this information is presented in a professional encyclopedic fashion and when qualified references are presented to prove otherwise, Wikipedia Admin meets it with silence. Why is this the case? | ||
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Because the articles about these subjects are controlled by Croatian or Slovenian nationalist editors, Wikipedia does not present this information in a way that reflects modern scholarly research. The University of Zagreb’s Ivo Goldstein, and other professional historians from Croatia, are already tackling these issues. The Croatian government is even paying compensation to former victims of the Communist regime. | Because the articles about these subjects are controlled by Croatian or Slovenian nationalist editors, Wikipedia does not present this information in a way that reflects modern scholarly research. The University of Zagreb’s Ivo Goldstein, and other professional historians from Croatia, are already tackling these issues. The Croatian government is even paying compensation to former victims of the Communist regime. | ||
− | ==Tito== | + | ==Josip Broz Tito== |
− | The article on Tito in Wikipedia needs more information on the first two decades of Tito's reign. From 1944 onwards his style of government was similar to that of Stalin's. Tito was a member of the '''Soviet Communist Party''' and the notorious Soviet Police-'''NKVD''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD] (this is mentioned only briefly in the Wikipedia article). He and his comrades set up KGB style police units (UDBA [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2v4118TV8c] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDBA] & OZNA [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OZNA]) in former Yugoslavia and also ran Partisan Death Squads towards the end of the war. | + | The article on Tito in Wikipedia needs more information on the first two decades of Tito's reign. From 1944 onwards his style of government was similar to that of Stalin's. Tito was a member of the '''Soviet Communist Party''' and the notorious Soviet Police-'''NKVD''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD] (this is mentioned only briefly in the Wikipedia article) The NKVD executed the rule of terror and political repression, on a grand scale (NKVD executed tens of thousands of Polish political prisoners in 1939-1941/Katyn massacre [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyń_massacre]). He and his comrades set up KGB style police units (UDBA [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2v4118TV8c] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDBA] & OZNA [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OZNA]) in former Yugoslavia and also ran Partisan Death Squads towards the end of the war. |
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Paul Hollander is an American scholar, journalist, and conservative political writer. (Ph.D in Sociology. Princeton University, 1963, B.A. London School of Economics, 1959 Professor Emeritus of Sociology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Center Associate, Davis). | Paul Hollander is an American scholar, journalist, and conservative political writer. (Ph.D in Sociology. Princeton University, 1963, B.A. London School of Economics, 1959 Professor Emeritus of Sociology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Center Associate, Davis). | ||
− | == | + | == Communist Party of Yugoslavia/Tito & the Yugoslav Economy == |
''Self -management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. People could obtain so much free or for less than the market price (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult'' | ''Self -management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. People could obtain so much free or for less than the market price (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult'' | ||
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− | == Communist | + | == Communist Propaganda within the Former Yugoslavia == |
− | The Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine shared much with the Soviet Union. The Soviet format was imposed and then slightly modified. The Yugoslav Communist state used youth indoctrination, which were all too similar to the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. Communist political, historical and philosophical courses were all part of general education. They can be found in any Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s. | + | The Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine shared much with the Soviet Union. The Soviet format was imposed and then slightly modified. The Yugoslav Communist state used youth indoctrination ( Union of Pioneers of Yugoslavia[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Pioneers_of_Yugoslavia]), which were all too similar to the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. Communist political, historical and philosophical courses were all part of general education. They can be found in any Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s. |
− | Media and arts were used as a powerful means of propaganda and were all placed under heavy censorship. Josip Broz Tito was the main subject. Images, monuments, towns, street names, endless awards were given and a never ending production of books, films and poetry were created. Financially a huge amount of resources were used to keep the Communist propaganda and political activities running on a daily basis. Glorification and hero worship of the leader Josip Broz were a constant diet for the former peoples of Yugoslavia. | + | Media and arts were used as a powerful means of propaganda and were all placed under heavy censorship. Josip Broz Tito was the main subject. Images, monuments, towns, street names, '''endless awards''' were given and a never ending production of books, films and poetry were created. Financially a huge amount of resources were used to keep the Communist propaganda and political activities running on a daily basis. Glorification and hero worship of the leader Josip Broz were a constant diet for the former peoples of Yugoslavia. |
Most of Josip Broz’s images, monuments, town names and street names are now being removed. This started after the fall of the Berlin Wall and after the break up of Yugoslavia. | Most of Josip Broz’s images, monuments, town names and street names are now being removed. This started after the fall of the Berlin Wall and after the break up of Yugoslavia. | ||
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User:Direktor reverts one editor with the comment "Reverting another defender of the Serbian nation... My Ustaše-like plans are so far functioning perfectly" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dra%C5%BEa_Mihailovi%C4%87&diff=314297692&oldid=314213126] | User:Direktor reverts one editor with the comment "Reverting another defender of the Serbian nation... My Ustaše-like plans are so far functioning perfectly" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dra%C5%BEa_Mihailovi%C4%87&diff=314297692&oldid=314213126] | ||
− | == Partisan editors == | + | == Comrade Editors/Partisan editors == |
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DIREKTOR Director] (Croatian - "Terms like dictator are not allowed on Wikipedia" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AJosip_Broz_Tito&diff=317296014&oldid=317292403]). | *[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DIREKTOR Director] (Croatian - "Terms like dictator are not allowed on Wikipedia" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AJosip_Broz_Tito&diff=317296014&oldid=317292403]). |
Revision as of 03:48, 10 October 2009
The History of the Balkan states is a complex affair. Since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the former Yugoslavia, evidence has emerged that portrays the Communist Party of Yugoslavia and its leader Josip Broz Tito in a totally different light. His regime now seems to be much more Stalinist [1][2] than the image that was portrayed to the people of Yugoslavia and to the West during the Cold War. Josip Broz Tito Commander of all Partisans and Communists during WWII oversaw some of the worst war crimes know to mankind. There are books, articles (writtem by professionals) as well as TV documentaries (some were aired on BBC 4 [3] [4]) in which people testified to the truth of these historical events. The notorious Bleiburg [5] [6] [7] and Foibe massacres [8] [9] [10] were two of these. The articles that appear in Wikipedia (as of 2009) do not reflect this modern view of the former Yugoslavia. They still adhere to and reflect the propaganda of the former Communist Party of Yugoslavia [11]. The article about the Dictator Josip Broz Tito is written in a child-like manner, similar to a Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s. From the late 1960’s to the 1970’s, economic decisions that were made by Josip Broz and the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, put the country in a disastrous political situation. Ironically the article on Tito does not even mention the fact that he was a Dictator [12] or his Cult of Personality [13] [14] [15]. None of this information is presented in a professional encyclopedic fashion and when qualified references are presented to prove otherwise, Wikipedia Admin meets it with silence. Why is this the case?
Since the early 90’s information concerning historical events surrounding Croatia are turning out to be similar to the history of the Soviet Union (massacres, ethnic cleansing, power struggles, political propaganda for cover ups of the truth). There is very little mention of his notorious KGB [16] police style organizations UDBA [17] [18]& OZNA [19]
Because the articles about these subjects are controlled by Croatian or Slovenian nationalist editors, Wikipedia does not present this information in a way that reflects modern scholarly research. The University of Zagreb’s Ivo Goldstein, and other professional historians from Croatia, are already tackling these issues. The Croatian government is even paying compensation to former victims of the Communist regime.
Josip Broz Tito
The article on Tito in Wikipedia needs more information on the first two decades of Tito's reign. From 1944 onwards his style of government was similar to that of Stalin's. Tito was a member of the Soviet Communist Party and the notorious Soviet Police-NKVD [20] (this is mentioned only briefly in the Wikipedia article) The NKVD executed the rule of terror and political repression, on a grand scale (NKVD executed tens of thousands of Polish political prisoners in 1939-1941/Katyn massacre [21]). He and his comrades set up KGB style police units (UDBA [22] [23] & OZNA [24]) in former Yugoslavia and also ran Partisan Death Squads towards the end of the war.
Cult of Personality
The below referenced information is from ‘Discontents: Postmodern and Postcommunist’ by Paul Hollander [25][26].
“Virtually every communist system extinct or surviving at one point or another, had a supreme leader who was both extraordinarily powerful and surrounded by a bizarre cult, indeed worship. In the past (or in a more traditional contemporary societies) such as cults were reserved for deities and associated with conventional religious behavior and institutions. These cults although apparently an intrinsic part of communist dictatorships (at any rate at a stage in their evolution) are largely forgotten today.” “ Stalin, Maio, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Sung, Enver Hoxha, Ceascesu, Dimitrov, Ulbricht, Gottwald, Tito and others all were the object of such cults. The prototypical cult was that of Stalin which was duplicated elsewhere with minor variations”
Paul Hollander is an American scholar, journalist, and conservative political writer. (Ph.D in Sociology. Princeton University, 1963, B.A. London School of Economics, 1959 Professor Emeritus of Sociology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Center Associate, Davis).
Communist Party of Yugoslavia/Tito & the Yugoslav Economy
Self -management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. People could obtain so much free or for less than the market price (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult
In Tito’s system no interest or ideas could be expressed in a truly democratic way. This did most harm where feelings of ethnic identity were concerned because their suppression led to growth of extreme nationalism. Furthermore, the economic failure of Tito’s system, most clearly expressed in the protracted crisis of the 1980s, left people who even if they were not poor, were disillusioned and open to manipulation by demagogues. Finally Tito’s practical solutions ensured that he would retain unlimited power during his life time, but foreshadowed the problems would come after his death.
Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[27] work above proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references, this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such an historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.
Communist Propaganda within the Former Yugoslavia
The Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine shared much with the Soviet Union. The Soviet format was imposed and then slightly modified. The Yugoslav Communist state used youth indoctrination ( Union of Pioneers of Yugoslavia[28]), which were all too similar to the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. Communist political, historical and philosophical courses were all part of general education. They can be found in any Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s. Media and arts were used as a powerful means of propaganda and were all placed under heavy censorship. Josip Broz Tito was the main subject. Images, monuments, towns, street names, endless awards were given and a never ending production of books, films and poetry were created. Financially a huge amount of resources were used to keep the Communist propaganda and political activities running on a daily basis. Glorification and hero worship of the leader Josip Broz were a constant diet for the former peoples of Yugoslavia.
Most of Josip Broz’s images, monuments, town names and street names are now being removed. This started after the fall of the Berlin Wall and after the break up of Yugoslavia.
Encyclopaedia Britannica: Josip Broz Tito
He knew that the Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, and others could not be integrated within some new supranation, nor would they willingly accept the hegemony of any of their number; yet his supranational Yugoslavism frequently smacked of unitarism. He promoted self-management but never gave up on the party’s monopoly of power. He permitted broad freedoms in science, art, and culture that were unheard of in the Soviet bloc, but he kept excoriating the West. He preached peaceful coexistence but built an army that, in 1991, delivered the coup de grâce to the dying Yugoslav state. At his death, the state treasury was empty and political opportunists unchecked. He died too late for constructive change, too early to prevent chaos.
The Bleiberg massacre
- Wikipedia, 4 Oct 2009 (Number one on Google)
- Tolstoy's account
- Death by Government R. Rummel, p. 252
- Yalta and The Bleiburg Tragedy C Michael McAdams University of San Francisco, California
Draža Mihailović
Britannica
"Having fought in the Balkan Wars (1912–13) and World War I, Mihailović, a colonel at the time of Germany’s invasion of Yugoslavia (April 1941), refused to acquiesce in the capitulation of the Yugoslav army. He organized the royalist Chetniks, who operated mainly in Serbia. He was appointed general in 1941 and minister of war that same year by King Peter’s Yugoslav government-in-exile.
- "Both the Chetniks under Mihailović and the communist-dominated Partisans, who were led by Josip Broz Tito, resisted the occupying German forces, but political differences led to distrust and eventual armed conflict between them. Reports of Chetnik resistance in the early stages of occupation buoyed the Allies and made of Mihailović a heroic figure. Fearful, however, of brutal reprisals against Serbians, Mihailović came to favour a restrained policy of resistance until the Allies could provide more assistance; the Partisans supported a more aggressive policy against the Germans. Favouring the latter policy and confronted with reports of Chetnik collaboration (particularly in Italian-held areas) directed against the Partisans, the Allies switched their support from Mihailović to Tito in 1944.
- "After the war Mihailović went into hiding. He was captured by the Partisans on March 13, 1946, and charged by the Yugoslav government with treason and collaboration with the Germans. Mihailović was sentenced to death and was executed in Belgrade in 1946. Although a U.S. commission of inquiry cleared Mihailović and those under his immediate command of the charge of collaboration, the issue is still disputed by some historians. Following the breakup of communist Yugoslavia in the early 1990s, his former refuge in the Ravna Gora region came to be a focus of royalist sentiment."
Chambers' Biographical
Article Tito: "He contrived to discredit utterly the rival partisan leader, Draza Mihailović, in Anglo-American eyes and win support and arms and material solely for himself".
Wikipedia
The Wikipedia article begins Dragoljub "Draža" Mihailović (Cyrillic script: Драгољуб "Дража" Михаиловић; also known as "Чича Дража" or "Čiča Draža", meaning "uncle Draža"; April 27, 1893 - July 17, 1946) was a Yugoslav Serbian general, now primarily remembered as a World War II collaborator.
User:Direktor reverts one editor with the comment "Reverting another defender of the Serbian nation... My Ustaše-like plans are so far functioning perfectly" [29]
Comrade Editors/Partisan editors
- Director (Croatian - "Terms like dictator are not allowed on Wikipedia" [30]).
- Director stated on Wikipedia: “Perhaps you ought to read above discussions. You see, this guy was smarter than Stalin or Pol Pot”. 08:09, 4 August 2009 [31]
- Director stated on Wikipedia: "Yeah, you win Serbia, Serbia finally wins something." 08:26, 22 September 2009 [32]
- Producer (Bosnian)
References
- BBC UK/History by Tim Judah [33]
- Tim Judah is a journalist for the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). Judah’s first jobs were at the BBC African Service and BBC World Service. He writes most of the Balkan coverage for “The Economist” but also works for the “New York Review of Books”, “The Observer”, the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) and others. He is the author of two books on the region: “The Serbs: History, Myth and the Destruction of Yugoslavia” and “Kosovo: War and Revenge”.
- David B. MacDonald: Identity politics in the age of genocide: the Holocaust and historical [34]
- C Michael McAdams : Yalta and The Bleiburg Tragedy[35]
- Ivo Goldstein-Croatia: A History [36]
- Ivo Goldstein is a Professor at the University of Zagreb & former Director of the Institute for Croatian History of the University of Zagreb
- Commission_on_Concealed_Mass_Graves_in_Slovenia from Wikipedia
- Vjekoslav Perica-Balkan Idols: Religion and Nationalism in Yugoslav States By [37]
- Vjekoslav Perica is a Croatian writer and academic.He is the author of the book Balkan Idols: Religion and Nationalism in Yugoslav States New York: Oxford University Press, 2002. He holds a Ph.D. in history from the University of Minnesota Twin Cities, USA
- R. J. Rummel: Death by Government
- "Frank Waddams, a British representative who had lived outside of Belgrade, said he knew first hand of ten “concentration camps” and had talked with inmates from nearly all of them. “ The tale is always the same, he said “ Starvation, overcrowding, brutality and death condition, which make Dachau and Buchenwald mild by comparison. Many Slovenes who were released from Dachau at the end of the war came home only to find themselves in a Slovene camp within a few days. It is from these people that the news has come that the camps are worse than Dachau.” Out of a Slovene population of 1,200,000, Waddams believes that 20,000 to 30,000 were imprisoned."
- This referenced information shows the inner workings of Josip Broz Tito and his government post WW2. The Wikipedic article does not mention such things. If it had done so, it would show a more balanced and modern view of history. Also it would be a more current scholarly view that was formed after the collapse of the Berlin Wall, and the fall of communism in Eastern Europe.
- Rudolph Joseph Rummel[38] is a professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii.[39]
- BBC 4: Tito's Ghost [40][41]
- Australia's Four Corners: Tito's UDBA Activities in Australia from the 1960's [42]
Notes
- ^ Example: changes"Among the Croats were real or alleged members or collaborators of the fascist regime. Killings were done presumably with the full knowledge of their supreme commander Josip Broz Tito" to "The majority of the Croats were members or collaborators of the fascist regime, although there were many frightened innocent people, however, these two were inextricably mixed and the pursuing partisans appear to have unfortunately labeled them all as traitors since they were fleeing with the fascist units that were attempting to surrender to British forces in Austria. Apart from Croats, present in the fleeing military columns were remaining units of the Serbian Chetniks and the Slovenian Bela Garda, the vast majority of both were killed as well. The British forces refused to accept the Ustaša's surrender as per the Allied agreement and they were prevented from entering the British occupied areas."