2
edits
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→An update for your perusal
==Wikipedia & Political Agendas -The Balkans==
==The Balkans==
Moved to [[User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas]]
: Actually (though the above is useful) do you have links to the articles that are problematic? I looked at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito article on Tito] and there are clear problems there. Is there anything else? Thanks [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 01:56, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
:: Hi! So, Wiki links that are problematic concerning the article. Hmmm, I like that. I'll get back to you on that one. Thanks for the tip. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 02:49, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
::: No, other articles in ''Wikipedia'' - or is it just the Tito one? Let's start with which specific Wikipedia articles you have a problem with :-) [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 02:51, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
:::: Ok! The Tito one, for now, as an example.[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 02:54, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
Can you see if you are allowed to edit [[User talk:Ockham/test page]]? [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 03:00, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
: No, I'm not allowed to edit the article. I went through all the Wiki protocol on the talk page & presented my arguments to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard & Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests, they told me go and edit somewhere else. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 03:13, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
Yes [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 03:31, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
: OK I have moved the page (see above). We can edit it there and then move it to the main space when complete. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 03:47, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
: You are 'Sir Floyd', correct? And the other one is 'Direktor'. It looks to me as though there is an issue here (forgive me, I generally avoid political articles as they are so inherently difficult to make NPOV. I agree with you, using standard reference sources as a benchmark is the only way to achieve neutrality. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 03:51, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
::Thanks! ''"Sir Floyd is not a bad guy once you get to know him."'' I'm lucky they didn't block me. They launched a huge attack against me once they saw that I wanted to change their Broz article. Director is their leader. I was suspicious from day one, but as you say "political articles are so inherently difficult to make NPOV" and I agree. I've been to Croatia many times, so I have a personal experience from that region. They seem to want to make Wikipedia to read like the propaganda of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia. My main worry is the power of Wikipedia to inform. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 05:39, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
Ockham are you on line?[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 07:57, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
: Yes, if you click on 'User contributions' you can see where I am working. I have added some more material to the article.[[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 07:59, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
: Thank you - do you have any links? (sorry not to have replied earlier - I don't always log in) [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 11:53, 2 October 2009 (PDT)
:: Thanks for responding. My partner has gone to bed, so please forgive me for my written English. I'm a bit dyslexic and a '''bi-lingual''' one at that, this was actually used against me at Wikipedia. Firstly thank you for putting your time into this. I lived in Croatia for ten years (long story) 78 to 88, so I know the place like the back of my hand. Can I please make some comments. By the way your bloody good at this!.[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 08:15, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
::: Go ahead I put it there so we can both work on it.[[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:28, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
::Hi Ockham! Sorry you'll have to be patient with me, I have yet to learn how to use the wiki-internet. Now links, I'm assuming thats got something to do with references? Cheers! [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 00:01, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
::::Thanks! We might have to put old Draza Mihailović on the bottom of the article (in terms of importance), because he switched sides during WW2 (but he still aided Allied Pilots), if that's Ok. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 08:40, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
::::: I am just collecting material for the moment. Mihailović seems to have been guilty of something, but it is by no means as clear cut as the Wikipedia article suggests. Sources are ''everything''. I might split this into several articles. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:50, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
'''References:'''
Cult of Personality is Wiki (Tito's) article's greatest weakness. His ''"Cult of Personality"'' is well documented (and it is quite disconcerting). You have to understand that there is a lot of '''feel good''' info written on him, until the collapse of Yugoslavia. He played a major role in Cold War propaganda, but it sadly turned out to be political spin. I'm going to add a few more references then I'm off to bed. At the moment I'm drinking a nice Aussie red wine. Cheers & Thank You! [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 09:26, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
: Mmm my favourite. Might have some myself tonight in London. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 09:31, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
[[BBC]] UK/History by Tim Judah [http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/yugoslavia_03.shtml]
Hi Ockham, are you on line? Thanks for the message and your work, it's looking great. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 07:57, 4 October 2009 (PDT)
: I'm here (for a bit). As I said, follow my contributions to see if I am on line. Thanks for a great lead. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 07:58, 4 October 2009 (PDT)
:: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, what a waste of''' time'''. Just logged off Wikipedia. I must have hit a raw nerve with the "Sources Interlink Attack". Ok I'll follow up, & get back to you. Are you still in London? I love London. Cheers [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 08:17, 4 October 2009 (PDT)
'''Tim Judah''' is a journalist for the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). Judah’s first jobs were at the BBC African Service and BBC World Service. He writes most of the Balkan coverage for “The Economist” but also works for the “New York Review of Books”, “The Observer”, the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) and others. He is the author of two books on the region: “The Serbs: History, Myth and the Destruction of Yugoslavia” and “Kosovo: War and Revenge”.
Hi Ockham, I'll be posting my thoughts on my talk page, so when you've got some spare time, check it out. Regards [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 20:28, 5 October 2009 (PDT)
: I've been away, I'll check your page out tomorrow. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 11:53, 8 October 2009 (PDT)
::: Check out the Youth Indoctrination stuff, it is very funny. It reminds me of Hitler's Youth. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 21:59, 9 October 2009 (PDT)
::::Check out "Wiki Balkan Dramas" & "Wiki's Encyclopedic Editors Style of Communication" [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 20:37, 12 October 2009 (PDT)
== Wiki Editors Publishing Wiki Articles (In a Book) ==
G-Day Ockham! Do you know anything about Wiki Editors publishing Wiki articles (in a book) and making money from it. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 02:47, 8 October 2009 (PDT)
: Sorry, no [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 11:53, 8 October 2009 (PDT)
I brought this book of the Internet called History of Dalmatia [http://www.amazon.com/History-Dalmatia-Dalmatia-Dalmatian-principalities/dp/6130027028]. It turned out to be 95% Wiki (maps & all). I though that Wiki was a '''non-profit''' organization. Without my knowledge I was surprised to see myself listed as a source author (& they got my statement wrong). [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 19:38, 9 October 2009 (PDT)
:User:MyWikiBiz has got information on the '''History of Dalmatia''' book [http://www.mywikibiz.com/User_talk:MyWikiBiz#Wiki_Editors_Publishing_Wiki_Articles_.28In_a_Book.29]. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 20:45, 12 October 2009 (PDT)
== Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard ==
''He knew that the Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, and others could not be integrated within some new supranation, nor would they willingly accept the hegemony of any of their number; yet his supranational Yugoslavism frequently smacked of unitarism. He promoted self-management but never gave up on the party’s monopoly of power. He permitted broad freedoms in science, art, and culture that were unheard of in the Soviet bloc, but he kept excoriating the West. He preached peaceful coexistence but built an army that, in 1991, delivered the ''coup de grâce'' to the dying Yugoslav state. At his death, the '''state treasury was empty''' and political opportunists unchecked. He died too late for constructive change, too early to prevent chaos.''
"Tito was the commander of the Partisans and there are far too many examples of '''mass murders''' & '''mass arrests''' [http://www.goliotok.com/] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_otok][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_otok] for it to be ignored (& there are many more). Any good encyclopedic article should make reference to them. It would be like Stalin without his rule of terror being documented. This just dosen't make sense in the modern world. What we have here is a clear avoidance of these issues (in the article), thus making it biased. Direktor stated ''"they have absolutely nothing to do with Josip Broz Tito"''. Well then,what did Tito do? Did he let these horrible events just happen? Did he have a moral conscience (the war did end)? Was he incompetent? Was he the great leader that the Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine portrayed him to be? Even the Wiki article states this. I have shown here credible references and sources to prove my argument, please take them into account."
(Referenced from Encyclopaedia Britannica)
''Taken'' from Summary of Josip Broz Tito Article-21 October 2009 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Summary_of_Josip_Broz_Tito_Article].
: Actually (though the above is useful) do you have links to the articles that are problematic? I looked at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito article on Tito] and there are clear problems there. Is there anything else? Thanks [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 01:56, 3 October 2009 (PDT)
:Hi Ockham. Hmmm! I 'm finding the Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard approach to these issues to be be quite odd. It's taken on a darker tone. They (the Admin) have not responded at all. No encyclopedia should remain quite on these matters (this is media material). This just '''dosen't''' make any sense. Cheers [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 18:18, 21 October 2009 (PDT)
:: It's the editor called DIREKTOR who is the problem, isn't it?[[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 01:20, 24 October 2009 (PDT)
::: Yes, he is part of the problem, but what's happening with Admin. Am I missing something here? I've meet some realy nice editors and some bad ones, but in the end somebody (or somebodies) has to make the '''main''' call. Are there any similarities with your situation? [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 05:28, 24 October 2009 (PDT)
:::: Do you mean by 'admin' the administration in general? Or a particular admin? Administrators generally can't make content judgments, only on behaviour, which is the main problem with Wikipedia [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 06:00, 24 October 2009 (PDT)
::::: Ok, thats interesting. How about when editor approaches "Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, with his/hers concerns and there is no responds (except my mate). Even though the issues are very serious. I have seen this with many others.[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 06:24, 24 October 2009 (PDT)
:::::: This is exactly as expected. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 06:29, 24 October 2009 (PDT)
::::::: Your're saying that's expected, because the editors are just not '''qualified''' or maybe they just playing ''boys club'' games (or both).[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 06:59, 24 October 2009 (PDT)
G-Day! ''It's taken on a darker tone''. What I am referring to is the '''ethical''' and '''moral''' issues involved in creating a feel good article about a man who allowed '''mass arrests/torture''' & '''mass murders''' (100 000 plus). Granted during the cold war he was portrayed as a hero (that was such a long time ago), however this is not the whole truth. Then we have editors surporting the article & finaly an admin who just don't get involved '''???''' What is going on at Wiki? Not very encyclopedic that's for sure. What if there was a feel good article on Stalin or Hitler? So do you think our article is nearly finish? On a lighter note, these days I am going for the preservative free wine. Cheers [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 01:55, 25 October 2009 (PDT)
: Gday! I had too much ordinary wine last night. I think the article has some way to go, in terms of more fact checking, more context and a bit more of a thread, particularly an active comparison to Wikipedia. E.g "Here are the facts as recognised by mainstream historians, here is how Wikipedia presents it, and here is why". Actually Wikipedia does a reasonably good job where there are enough experts to represent the mainstream view. In this case, there is one guy or two who completely control that set of articles. The administration never do anything because their job is to control behaviour. Also most administrators have hardly any education, I don't know if you realise that. PS sorry I haven't been able to help more - if you look at my contributions you see I am loading my old website onto MWB after Googlepages deleted all of it. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 02:30, 25 October 2009 (PDT)
:: Yes, you have been busy. Thanks for the feedback. ''"Also most administrators have hardly any education, I don't know if you realise that."'' I noticed that something wasn't right, but couldn't quite pin point it. I thought that the place was run mostly by young teenagers. So I wasn't far of, I think. That would explain some of it. Thanks [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 21:35, 25 October 2009 (PDT)
== News Flash ==
'''News Flash''': Editor DIREKTOR is being considered (by some in Wiki) to be nominated for Admin [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Polargeo/Archive_1#Admin] & [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:AniMate#Admin.3F].
: Link please! [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 13:17, 27 October 2009 (PDT)
::'''News Flash''': Editor DIREKTOR has won "The Barnstar of Diplomacy" Award! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DIREKTOR#Award] -It's like giving Robert Mcgarbie a Noble Peace Prize- Go Wiki.
(What ever happened to MyWikiBiz ?) [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 17:46, 27 October 2009 (PDT)
== JA ==
JA: Why the devil did they do that? [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 07:44, 25 October 2009 (PDT)
: They have changed it to 'Google Sites' the purpose of which is to prevent uploading of html files. You can only do it by using their editor and copying and pasting so, stuff that, I have moved in here. [https://www.google.com/support/sites/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=90558] [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:56, 25 October 2009 (PDT)
== Amusing edit ==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brandywine_Springs&curid=23842546&diff=321568812&oldid=321443794] Note to self: try and find a place for this. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 12:24, 26 October 2009 (PDT)
== Article ==
Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles! [http://www.mywikibiz.com/Wikipedia’s_Communist_Propaganda_Articles%21#Dictator_Josip_Broz_Tito]
: Thanks - I shall be using some of this material shortly.[[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 14:02, 7 November 2009 (PST)
Really? Thanks, have you read about the "Commission on Concealed Mass Graves in Slovenia". They have finally finished their work and it's having a huge effect on the Croatian & Slovenian community. Some of it is just an eerie silence.
*Slovenian Press Agency [http://www.sta.si/vest.php?s=a&id=1378327&pr=1] Columnist Says Silence on Post-War Killings Needs to End
Check out this good old fashion edited war [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Josip_Broz_Tito#Josip_Broz_Tito]. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 17:55, 7 November 2009 (PST)
'''''News Flash''''' - have been report, is the down fall of Sir Floyd? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#WP:OUTING_violations_by_User:Sir_Floyd]
The World According to Wikipedia:[http://www.mywikibiz.com/User_talk:Peter_Z.#The_Word_According_to_Wikipedia] [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 23:18, 7 November 2009 (PST)
Hi there! I've pretty much bottom out on my reference work (the ones that are bullet proof) [http://www.mywikibiz.com/User_talk:Peter_Z.#Notes_on_References]. What holds for the future for references from this part of the world, who knows? I got a feeling that post ''The Commision'' things might start changing, I hope. Well next time when I'm here, I might be part of the Block Editors Gang.
Ps check out my music [http://www.amrap.org/fmn.php?pageid=4&nodeid=458&a=1&p=1&c=intrinsic] [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 01:02, 8 November 2009 (PST)
== Events on Wiki Balkan Articles ==
Hi Ockham! Italian admin have pick up on my ''" Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies"'' and all hell has broken lose [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Josip_Broz_Tito#He_never_made_a_mistake.3F_There_is_nothing_to_criticize.3F]. Their '''might be''' some changes? I've done some more research. It's quite possible that the propaganda is being pushed from a guy from Slovenia (he's part of the Wikipedia's Hive Mind). Why on earth would anyone want to push old communist propaganda stuff? This indeed is truly '''strange'''? [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 01:51, 5 December 2009 (PST)
: HI, sorry I've been away a bit. I will take a look. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 08:42, 28 December 2009 (PST)
:: Happy new year-Ockham![[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 00:32, 1 January 2010 (PST)
::: and to you!!!! [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 05:42, 2 January 2010 (PST)
== Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles!-Dictator Josip Broz Tito ==
Hello! Any change of moving this [http://www.mywikibiz.com/Wikipedia’s_Communist_Propaganda_Articles%21] on to the "Directory:The Wikipedia Point of View". Regards [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 19:40, 8 January 2010 (PST)
: [http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View/Wikipedia_%26_Political_Agendas Done].
:: Thanks [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 05:38, 9 January 2010 (PST)
:::[[User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas]]/ updated [[Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles!]]-did some work, any change, sometime, please, have a look, Ockham. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 17:39, 11 January 2010 (PST)
:::: Hello! I've created my own [[User talk:Peter Z./Wikipedia & Political Agendas]]. There I've transfer some of my own work. The User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas reads better now. Regards [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 17:37, 13 January 2010 (PST)
== House of De Bona==
Hi Ockham! Are you still alive? Check this out [http://www.mywikibiz.com/User_talk:Peter_Z./Wikipedia_%26_Political_Agendas#House_of_De_Bona House of De Bona]. I reckon there's a article in this, if not more. Cheers [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 21:23, 5 February 2010 (PST)
: Hi there yes of course! Just a bit distracted at the moment with RL issues such as completing a book. I will check out your link. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 03:04, 7 February 2010 (PST)
==Help This is not doing well on Google!==
[[Sarey Savy]] needs to reach number one on google search engine can you help it's like number 15. ([[User:Michael Chen|Michael Chen]] 21:37, 11 February 2010 (PST))
:Not sure why you're bothering an expert in medieval philosophy with your Google search problems, but I am here to help. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 05:55, 12 February 2010 (PST)
== Reply on SMW matter ==
Ockham, I have [http://www.mywikibiz.com/User_talk:MyWikiBiz#Help:SMW replied] to you. -- [[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 02:22, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
== The Wikipedia Point of View/Pornopedia/2010-May porn purge ==
Interesting reading. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 13:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
: Glad you enjoyed it! [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 15:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Ockham there seems to be tons of this neo-communist crap on Wiki. Ha! It's a joke! They have turn it into their own little blog. Is this the next [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Soviet_Encyclopedia Great Soviet Encyclopedia]? Hey, check out my new baby [[Nationalistic Editing on Wikipedia]].
:: That's fabulous and thanks for the links to my pages. Very sunny weather in London, I am in the garden drinking cider. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 15:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Rain in Fremantle, drinking ...... water! [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 14:56, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
:::: Yes I saw [[Nationalistic Editing on Wikipedia]]. On another subject, check out my blog [http://ocham.blogspot.com/2010/06/avicennian-logic.html here] - the scale of POV here was immense. The English weather is back to normal, sadly. [[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 07:06, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
::::: That is a ''cool'' blog, but is it as ''cool'' as my web site ?: http://www.peterzuvela.com/ :) That Avicennian logic looks very interesting, I'll have to give a good reading later on. Mad house here at the [http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:J_Shed_Ceramic_Art_Studio#Reburial_of_Yagan.27s_Head-Current_Project moment]. See Ya! [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 07:39, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::: Thanks for your support here by the way [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Proposal_to_unblock_Peter_Damian]. Unfortunately it turned into the usual fiasco.[[User:Ockham|Ockham]] 14:36, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::: I like the term: ''Activists''. [[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 01:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
== Equine greetings! ==
Hello! You get a big Horsey kiss! Mwah! Mwah! [[User:Horsey|Horsey]] 03:09, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
I like your work here. But I haven't seen your edits since the fall of 2011?
[[User:JeanneLanz|JeanneLanz]] 22:10, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
==An update for your perusal==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Issues_with_Reconsolidation.27s_multiple_identities]. The links are very interesting! [[User:Pimperknoll|Pimperknoll]] 03:34, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Oh, here's another [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Neuro-linguistic_programming&diff=4971200&oldid=4969767][[User:Pimperknoll|Pimperknoll]] 04:00, 3 January 2013 (UTC)