User talk:Peter Z./Notes on the former Yugoslavia

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The former Balkan State Yugoslavia is indeed a complex affair. Since the fall of the Berlin Wall evidence has emerged that portrays this country in a totally different light.

The region has had a truly tragic history since the creation of Yugoslavia in 1918.

• Parliamentary assassination of Stjepan Radic in Belgrade (1928)
• The Jasenovac concentration camp of World War Two
• Way of the Cross, Bleiburg and Foibe massacres (1945/46)
• Srebrenica massacre of the early 1990s during the Bosnia War (1992–1995)

Dictatorships:

• King Alexander I
• Dictator Josip Broz Tito

Croatia and the Communist Party of Yugoslavia

Croatia and the Communist Party of Yugoslavia is a subject that is not on today’s Western Scholars minds, at all. Yet the Communist Party of Yugoslavia had a profound effect on the region. So much so that it’s created today’s political and cultural scene.

The events of post World War Two are of Biblical proportion. As stated by Joze Dezman a noted Slovenian Historian (Slovenia a former republic of Yugoslavia).

'"Killing civilians and prisoners of was after Second World War is the greatest massacre of unarmed people of all times in Slovenian territory. Compared to Europe, the Yugoslav communist massacres after the Second World War are probably right after the Stalinist purges and the Great Famine in the Ukraine. The number of those killed in Slovenia in spring of 1945 can now be estimated at more than 100,000, Slovenia was the biggest post- War killing site in Europe. It was a mixture of events, when in Slovenia there are retreating German units, collaborator units, units of Independent State of Croatia, Chetniks and Balkan civilians; more than 15,000 Slovenia inhabitants were murdered as well. Because of its brevity, number of casualties, way of execution and massiveness, it is an event that can be compared to the greatest crimes of Communism and National Socialism."

The events were best documented in the European Public Hearing on “Crimes Committed by Totalitarian Regimes" held in Brussels in April 2008. The commission was mainly the work of Brussels European Union and the Government of Slovenia.

Concerns

A large proportion of information (books,articles) concerning the former Yugoslavia reminded me of the Yugoslavian encyclopaedias of the 1970s. The encyclopaedias were written in the same style as the Great Soviet Encyclopedia.

• William Benton, (publisher of the Encyclopedia Britannica), stated that: "about the second edition of the encyclopedia that the encyclopedia had a political bias and claimed that its purpose was a propaganda weapon". Sections of the Yugoslavian encyclopaedias were also used as a propaganda weapon to show the superiority of Titoism and the Socialist Yugoslavia to other societies and political systems.

Additionally Slavicization of non Slavic regions in Yugoslavia was continued as government policy under the Communist Party of Yugoslavia after World War Two. The regime removed ethnic populations (Germans, Italians & Hungarians). This information can be sourced from reliable scholars.

Information was and still is being presented to the world, an historical perspective of former communist Yugoslavia that was written by a Totalitarian political system.

Croatian language concerns

• Note: The Croatian (Hrvatski) language belongs to the Southern Slavic language group. The overall labelling of the language as Serbo-Croatian is historically incorrect. Croatian predates Serbo-Croatian. The Serbo-Croatian language is a modern standard form that was created in the 19th Century. The Croatian language in fact goes back centuries. It is un-encyclopaedic to represent the language otherwise

• Note somebody once stated:"Serbo-Croatian (19/20 century standard form) is a political term and not a scientific term." This could be possible Peter Z. 15:26, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

VKokielov

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Croatian is a South Slavic language spoken in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and neighbouring countries, as well as by the Croatian Diaspora worldwide. Linguists have called it a form of Serbo-Croatian language , using the term invented by the Illyrian movement to underscore the grammatic and lexical closeness of the three standard languages across the shtokavian dialect area of speech; the same term was adopted by the federal Yugoslav government. Notwithstanding this, the name Serbo-Croatian was not, in general, heard from shtokavian speakers. The two archaic Slavic dialects traditionally and perhaps arbitrarily ascribed to Serbo-Croatian, Chakavian and Kajkavian dialect are exclusively Croatian. It may be noted that these dialects once spanned a broader area; chakavian was spoken throughout Istria and Dalmatia and kajkavian reached from Zagorje out to Zagreb. But since the Turkish invasion five hundred years ago, shtokavian speakers have been moving west, displacing by various degrees the old speech. The south Slavic linguistic question is brittle and complex. The bloody, destructive wars of the 1990s put an end for good to the Illyrian idea of a Serbian-Croatian nation (together with the Bosniaks, whom the Illyrians called Serbs or Croats converted to Islam), and with it to the notion of a unitary language. Croatian is written in Gaj's Latin alphabet, based on Czech. The same alphabet is used for Bosnian and Serbian. Statement by VKokielov (Wikipedia)

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• I like this! Peter Z. 15:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

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This is interesting history

by ip 83.131.67.175

• Pavlović Bernardin, Dubrovnik, 1747.... Pripravljanje za dostojno reći svetu misu... u harvaski jezik pomnjivo i virno privedeno. Pokripljenje umirućih... u harvaski jezik popravi i prištampa... za korist naroda Harvaskoga... - he translated liturgy books from Latin to Croatian (harvaski). Everyone who understand South Slavic languages can see that this is Ikavian Shtokavian - never spoken by Serbs.

In history Croatian language was called by a few synonyms: harvatski, ilirski, slovinski, dalmatinski. Slovinski is Ikavian Croatian form of word Slavic.

• Sforza Ponzoni, 1620, "dalmatinski ali harvacki” - Dalmatian or Croatian

• Stjepan Cosmi (Cosmus), 1688, always translated illyricus as hrvatski (Clero Illyrico — klera harvaskoga; idiomo Illyrico —harvaskoga izgovora).

• Filip Grabovac, Venice, 1749: "Cvit razgovora naroda iliričkoga ali arvackoga" (Illyrian or croatian people). "U Dalmaciji... se i jezik zva, kakonoti ilirički, pak slovinski, potomtoga arvacki i evo i danas. Tri su imena a jedan je isti jezik." (In Dalmatia... language was called Illyrian, or Slavic, or Croatian, so still is. There are 3 names, but the language is one).

• Joakim Stulli, Dubrovnik, 1801, Lexicon latino-italico-illyricum, - word 'illyrice': “Slovinski, harvatski, hrovatski, horvatski”. Once again Illyrian is synonym for Croatian.

Serbian writers were translating from Croatian to Serbian until the 19th century.

• Georgij Mihajlović, 1803. Aždaja sedmoglava: "s dalmatinskoga jezika na slaveno-serbskij prečistjeno" (translated from Dalmatian to Serbo-Slavic). He didn't mention Vid Došen, a writer of the original book. Here Dalmatian is synonym for Croatian.

Opposite example:

• Ivan Ambrozović, 1808: "Proričje i narečenja, sa srbskog jezika na ilirički privedena, nadopunjena i složena" (...translated from Serbian language to Croatian...)

• Vuk Karadžić, Narodne srbske pesnarice, Vienna 1815: "Pesne su ove... jedne štampane po Hercegovačkom dijalektu, a druge po Sremačkom..., da sam sve pečatao Hercegovački (n. p. djevojka, djeca, vidjeti, lećeti, i dr.), onda bi rekli Sremci: pa šta ovaj nama sad nameće Horvatskij jezik". (These songs... some are written in Herzegovinian dialect, the others are in dialect of Srijem... if I wrote all in Herzegovinian (some ijekavian examples), people of Srijem (Serbs who moved to Srijem from Raška at the end of the 17th century) would say: why is he giving us Croatian language). So even V.K. who produced standard Serbian in the 18th century acknowledged here that he used Croatian language for Serbian standard.

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• English: Where are you going?

Slovene - Kaj: Kam greš?

Croatian - Ča: Di greš? Kamo greš? Note: Kamo & Gdje are linguistically not compatible.

Serbo-Croatian (19/20 century standard form) - Što: Gdje ideš?

Serbian - Što: Gde ideš?

• English: I am going to the west.

Slovene - Kaj: Grem proti zahodu.

Croatian - Ča: Gren va zahod.Note: Gren & Idem are linguistically not compatible.

Serbo-Croatian (19/20 century standard form) - Što: Idem na zapad.

Serbian - Što: Idem na zapad.

• English: What are you doing?

Slovene - Kaj: Kaj delaš?

Croatian - Ča: Ča dilaš (delaš)? Ča činiš?

Serbo-Croatian (19/20 century standard form) - Što: Što radiš?

Serbian - Što: Šta radiš?

• English: I'm sleeping in the bed.

Slovene - Kaj: Spim v postelji.

Croatian - Ča: Spim u posteji.

Serbo-Croatian (19/20 century standard form)- Što: Spavam u krevetu.

Serbian - Što: Spavam u krevetu.

• English: Light the fire.

Slovene - Kaj: Zažgej ogenj.

Croatian - Ča: Užgi oganj. Serbo-Croatian (19/20 century standard form) - Što: Upali vatru.

Serbian - Što: Upali vatru.

• English: My word is saying...

Slovene - Kaj: Moja beseda poveda...

Croatian - Ča: Moja besida povida...

Serbo-Croatian (19/20 century standard form) - Što: Moja riječ govori...

Serbian - Što: Moja reč govori...

Small example:

English: I want to go.

Cro Ča: Želin pojti.

Cro Što: Želim ići.

Serb/Montenegr Što: Želim da idem.

Totalitarian Political System of the Former Yugoslavia

Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy by Carl Joachim Friedrich & Zbigniew Brzezinski:

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Characteristics of a totalitarian regime; a total ideology, a single mass party, a terrorist secret police, a monopoly of mass communication, all instruments to wage combat are in the control of the same hands, and a centrally directed planned economy. Totalitarian dictatorships emerge after the seizure of power by the leaders of a movement who have developed support for an ideology. The point when the government becomes totalitarian is when the leadership uses open and legal violence to maintain its control. The dictator demands unanimous devotion from the people and often uses a real or imaginary enemy to create a threat so the people rally around him.

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Former Yugoslavia

• Total ideology: Communism & Titoism
• A single mass party: Communist Part of Yugoslavia (or League of Communists of Yugoslavia)
• Terrorist secret police: UDBA and OZNA
• Monopoly of mass communication: Mass communication were all placed under heavy censorship of the Yugoslav Communist State.
• Directed planned economy:Communist Part of Yugoslavia controlled the economy.
• Leaders of a movement who have developed support for an ideology: Titoism & Josip Broz Tito (the great leader)
• Leadership uses open and legal violence to maintain its control:Notorious Bleiburg massacre, Way of the Cross massacres and the Foibe massacres. Ethnic cleansing of Germans, Hungarians and Italians. Communist concentration and work camps. Prison gulags: Goli Otok (Barren Island),KPH Zenica, Stare Gradiska and Sveti Grgur.
• Demands unanimous devotion from the people:Dictator Josip Broz Tito was the main subject. Images, monuments, towns, street names, endless awards were given and a never ending production of books, films and poetry were created.

European public hearing on “Crimes Committed by Totalitarian Regimes”& former Yugoslavia"

• Reports and proceedings of the 8th of April European public hearing on “Crimes Committed by Totalitarian Regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency of the Council of the European Union (January–June 2008) and the European Commission, stated the following: Totalitarian machines

Let us mention briefly Fascism, National Socialism and Titoism in Italy, Austria and Slovenia (a former republic of Yugoslavia). Three Christian nations, with nationalist tendencies, were infected with totalitarianism. The descent into barbarism has comparable structural elements:

• Abuse of national sentiment to carry out racial and class revolutionary projects;
• Cult of a great leader, who permits his fanatics to murder, steal and lie;
• Dictatorship of one party;
• Militarisation of society, police state – almighty secret political police;
• Collectivism, subjection of the citizen to the totalitarian state;
• State terrorism with systematic abuses of basic human rights;
• Aggressive assumption of power and struggle for territory. (page 197.)

Wikipedia & former Yugoslavia

This is funny, Wikipedia states:

• "The post-World War II Yugoslavia was in many respects a model [citation needed] of how to build a multinational state."
• "The ethnic violence was only ended [citation needed] when the multiethnic Yugoslav Partisans took over the country at the end of the war and banned nationalism from being publicly promoted. "
• "Most notable of the victories against the occupying forces were the battles of Neretva and Sutjeska."

Editor's notes: Victories?

• "Yugoslavia solved the national issue of nations and nationalities (national minorities) in a way that all nations and nationalities had the same rights."

Editor's notes: Thru the Way of the Cross, Bleiburg and Foibe massacres (1945/46)

Now thanks to the Internet, this pseudo historical perspective that once was only know to Tito's Yugoslavia, has gone World Wide. This is truly disturbing because the former communist Yugoslavia encompassed peoples descendant of the Roman Empire, Republic of Venice, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Bosnia and so and so forth.

Editors Notes: Well, one could say, what would you expect from a Totalitarian political system? It needs to do historical re-writes. Part of its existence is based on falsehoods. It's the nature of the beast. Now I'm not saying it's all pseudo historical but sections of it would have to be. The regime had to justify its existence. I suspect it's all derived from 19-century thinking, i.e., Marxism combined with extreme Nationalism & Darwinism. The theory of Evolution incorporated into history of Civilisation. It is based on the Great Union of Southern Slavs combined with Communism's grand plan for its people to evolve into a superior society (and a superior man) as a whole.

Yugoslavia had it all. Kids were all educated in this way and taught to love the great leader. I'm not making this up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUZx70JDseU&feature=related

Communist Yugoslavia ( & the Kingdom of Yugoslavia) has gotten off lightly when it comes to history. I would love to get my hands on scholarly works prior to 1945/46 and compare notes to what was written afterwards. I'm not alone in these matters, there are others who share my view.

Hague

Centre for History, Democracy and Reconciliation-Hague:

• Myths and stereotypes of communism and nationalism which are still alive in our region (former Yugoslavia). Some historians still use these myths and stereotypes in their scientific work. CHDR will encourage researchers on the project "Myths in politics and modern history" to challenge these controversial aspects of the past which have been repeatedly manipulated for political purposes.

(Link: http://www.centerforhistory.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=37) Additional: There was some good academic work done during the Communist era ( & post Communist). Experience has taught me that these writings are usually hardish to obtain and the information is generally disregarded by hot headed nationalism or Neo-Communists. Peter Z. 01:55, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Media links

• Press Agency: Columnist Says Silence on Post-War Killings Needs to End (Interview). Ljubljana, 1 April (STA) - Alenka Puhar, an author who has written extensively about Slovenia's Communist past (a former republic of Yugoslavia), has told STA in an interview that post-WWII killings need to be examined and discussed. "We need to talk about it and live with it, with this pain," she said.
• EurActiv Network Croatian PM pays tribute to controversial war victims (Croatia a former republic of Yugoslavia).

Slovenia 1945

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• Slovenia 1945 Book Official Site - Memories of Death and Survival.

(Selected as "Book of the Year" 2005 in the Times Literary Supplement by John Bayley, literary critic, retired Oxford University Professor and widower of Iris Murdoch. The authors wrote to Prime Minister Tony Blair asking for Britain to make a gesture of regret to Slovenia for sending back the surrendered soldiers.)

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Quote link: This book tells how the British Army in Austria forcibly repatriated surrendered Slovene anti-Communist soldiers to their deaths in 1945. Authors John Corsellis and Marcus Ferrar appealed to the government for a British expression of regret to Slovenia. Sixty two MPs signed an Early Day Motion in the House of Commons calling for this. Then British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw wrote personally to the authors, and the head of a U.K. Parliamentary delegation to Slovenia did subsequently express regret. SLOVENIA 1945 – sample reviews: It has contrived wholly to avoid all the clichés of the genre …it presents us with a range of individuals as vividly seen and as sharply characterised as the multifarious inhabitants of War and Peace or A Dance to the Music of Time – 'Book of the Year' choice by John Bayley, literary critic, Times Literary Supplement, December 2005 An accessible, engaging read – The Catholic Herald. This excellent book …raises a number of questions of profound historical and moral interest – The Tablet. Part of a healing process …it is inspiring – The Friend. Promises to contribute to our collective understanding of a terrible period of European history. It is right …that we too remember the tragedy which befell the Slovene people – Jack Straw, British Foreign Secretary. A valuable contribution to upholding the common values Slovenia and Great Britain share as members of the European Union – Janez Jansa, Slovene Prime Minister Impossible to put down – Cardinal Aloysius Ambrozic, Archbishop of Toronto. A wealth of precise information and balanced judgments presented in a clear and pleasant style … a serious and objective work – Cardinal Franc Rode, Vatican An exciting and moving read – Michael Nelson, former Gen Mgr, Reuters.

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