User:Books/fight
CREATION OF NEW BOXING COMMISSION/ONE GOVERNING BODY + IDEAS ALL BOXING SHOULD FOLLOW by L.J.L.
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Jan Lary Lubek's Boxing Manifesto>p>
+ IMPORTANCE OF DRAWS
+ TITLE UNIFICATION
+ 3:01 Minutes Rounds + 1:01 Breaks
+ MANY OTHER IMPORTANT IDEAS
+ REAL WEIGHT CATEGORIES
+ Floyd Patterson Era
+ Archie Moore's Fake Quests (Satirical)
There are five major boxing organizations out there. There are dozens of others. Each organization claims they have their own champion and each claims they are the best and most accepted... I do not know AND I DO NOT CARE. Sometimes there is a reunification, but usually never in a heavy-weight division. The bottom line is: We need to create a governing body which will control the fights, choose opponents and bring back honor to boxing. All four (or how many there are) organizations can continue with their business, but all must abide by their ruling, they can all have their champions and championships BUT THERE ONLY COULD BE ONE, LINEAR AND OFFICIAL, UNDISPUTED BOXING CHAMPION OF AND IN PARTICULAR WEIGHT DIVISION. PERIOD. I seriously doubt by having 4, 5 champions in each category, fans know who is who. Nothing but disagreements and confusion. Nothing but mess. And as long as there is mess around, ignorance remains. And ignorance is the playground for the fools. A Boxing Governing Body will clean up the mess. The body will have its president and members of each boxing organization. IMPORTANCE OF DRAWS:
Emphasis must be put on the importance of draws, very close calls/fights should be drawn, extra few jabs or punches which do not have any effect on the fighter should not have significant results.. For example two De la Hoya - Mosley fights. De la Hoya - Vargas as well, Hopkins - Tayler I. Very close fights which should be reconsidered as draws. The 1926 Grab-Flowers world middleweight title fight should have been a draw at least. That was Grab's last fight, he died shortly after. Michalczewski vs Gonzales (when he was 48-0 but I think Gonzales edged him for the victory), Riddick Bowe vs Billy Zumbrun 2005, Jersey Joe Walcott vs Louis, 1st fight, Patterson-Maxim 1954. (I don'e feel sorry at all for De la Hoya losing, he has all the fame and money he wants, but I care for judging all the fights properly) September 26 1956, Baker vs Hurricane II, the referee gave the match to Baker, but two judges over-ruled that and gave it to Tommy. Baker got screwed... No doubt the mafia, the IBC/NBA had something to do with this. They did not want Baker to fight Floyd, Floyd was a skilled boxer, while Tommy was just that, a Hurricane of uncoordinated punches. In many of these fights judges were either ignorant, sympathy for a certain fighter or corrupt or had personal interests in the bouts/fighters. Marciano-LaStarza, March 1950, was almost a draw. Marciano won, (it was too close because he once hit LaStarza below belt and the referee took away one point from him, otherwise this would not have been a split decision but a majority decision for Rocky. I am not questioning that, his poor performance was attributed to a trauma of almost killing his previous opponent Vingo on December 30 1949. Marciano-Wallace (amateur) and there are I am sure many more classic examples, most recent Mora-Manfredo II, the Contender, that was a terrible decision, sure, Mora had some stronger punches, but Manfredo landed almost twice as many, in numbers. Manfredo won more rounds too. The June 17th 2005 match between Taylor and Wright was a good decision draw. The middleweight title which belonged to DeMarco in 1950's and the way he lost it was unjust. It's amazing how judges can not reward a draw in such close, tough fights. There are countless more bouts like the above mentioned. The rounds won should count and additional points system used by New York from 1920's until recently, was also not fair. In his last fight, Jim Braddock won split decision against Jim Farr, thanks to supplemental points, I am not disputing his win, similar situation happened to many others, including Nino Valdez's victory over Mike DeJohn April 23 1958. Sugar Ray Leonard vs Marvin Hagler should have been a draw. Many of Sugar's punches landed on Marvin's arms or gloves. Those were not powerful punches. When one referee gives a victory to any of the fighters it should be a draw, especially if it was split decision and the other judge's points equal to the other two). We should return to the old system of giving points to each round and then giving final result based on how many rounds won, e.g: 5-5 4-6 2-8. This is more productive because one point should not decide the round nor the match and judges have a better way of scoring and deciding an outcome of the fight and a draw is more likely if the fight is too close to call. A judge may score one extra point in one round but still call the match a draw. No supplementary points should be allowed like New York had it for many years. (e.g. Marciano-LaStarza 1950) I'd go back to mandatory 15 rounds system, there are some fighters who go even after 12 rounds, 3 more would make the difference, in the old days they fought 20 or more rounds, it was changed after world war I and usually many of those 15 round bouts had extra 1-3 seconds because it takes that many seconds for referees to separate the fighters and give a go ahead to fight.
The point system, judges... The Importance of Draws...
If one judge scores 115-113, but both judges have equal score for the other opponent, the bout is too close to call and must be called a draw. Any fight with the same or above score for one judge must be called draw. If one judge scores 115-115 but two others score 115-114, it's not a draw. But if the fight is scored 112-111, 111-112, 111-112 SD, it is the draw, classic example is 4/3/2009 fight between Hurtado & Morua two judges scored 114-113 for Hurtado, once 114-113 for Morua but in reality fight was too close to give Hurtado victory thus such scores should be mandatory, this is perfect example of automatic draw; any score with one point difference 114-113 114-113 113-114... If it's 113-113 then it's not a draw but if there is difference of one point, it ought to be. One point equalized the score: 115-113 114 113 113 115 As you can see the 114 113 one point makes all the difference. Both 115 113 were given to each fighter by 2 different judges. Thus in both instances the difference is one point and that is way too close to give one fighter victory.
The first Cooper-Ali fight should have been a technical draw or a no contest. Ali was very lucky to escape that one, after a KO in the 4th, he had no idea where he was or who he was. After realizing Ali was in no shape to continue fighting, shrewd Angelo Dundee and his team came up with some bogus excuse that Ali's gloves were full of holes, a stalling tactic to rest Ali. At this point the referee should have called it a draw. It was at least 5 minutes of resting time Ali would ever need to regain his strength. He was young and strong and those extra 5 minutes gave him all the strenght back he needed. That fight was a drawn fight. One of the very few good decisions I could think of (when it comes to draws) was the bout between light weight champ Jose Luis Castillo and Stevie Johnston Sep 15 2000. Even though Costillo was a better fighter, Jonston was given the title. Johnston was declared the winner by MD. Several minutes later it was discovered that one of the judges scorecards had been added incorrectly and thus Castillo retained his title. I wonder if that judge changed his mind, knowing it would have been a wrong decision otherwise. Another stupid decision that that board did not overturn was on August 15 2008 between Anthony Thompson & Ishmail Arvin... Anthony threw and landed more punches all across Ishmail, yet he still lost the fight because referee was out of line and no instant replay was allowed. Because of cut across Thompson's eye referee said he could not continue but referee did not bother where did that cut come from. Arvin was declared winner by TKO. Fight should have been called technical draw or it should have been decided by score cards. Another injustice in boxing in modern times.
Unified Belt:
Serious steps must be taken when it comes to title unification, We have way too many champions and something must be done about this problem asap... Four or five different boxing organizations can have their own championships, but there must be an agreement on one champion between them, always.
We've all heard... he hits below the belt, what's the deal with that... I mean the belt is way too high, even above belly button, that has to go way down, what is there to hit... boxers just protect themselves with huge well padded pound gloves and almost never get hit the right way. Knee pads should be worn by all boxers, Valuev-McCline 2007, if McCline had protective pads over his knees he might have lasted all 12 rounds and produced an upset. One judge had him tied on score cards.
3:01 Rounds:
I am proposing a new 2 & 3 rounds system, instead of 4. For those who are starting out, 2 rounds would be great; at leat 3:01 minutes for each round with 61 seconds break, every round starts only when referee moves out of the way, not when he gives the signal to fight, important seconds are lost otherwise. The extra second is to give referee time to step aside after giving a sign to start the fight. However, for those boxers, who remain undefeated at 11-0 can no longer fight this format. Championship bouts should be 13 rounds, first round will be 4 minutes, rest 3 minutes, final one will be 3 minutes, the rest between 12th and 13th will be 2 minutes, this way it will be exciting and more decisive. In the first round there is more fast action and in the 11th, endurance will be the key. Every round should last 3:03, the extra 3 seconds are to replace the interval after the bell, when the referee steps in the middle of the fighters, to get them ready. The breaks should be 65 seconds.
Michalczewski and Larry Holmes, they were both 48-0, going for 49-0; They were just about to tie Rocky's record, but they were both stopped by Gonzales and Spinks, it makes me think... was this miracle or some guardian angel protecting Rocky, knowing very well he could have been 50-0 or more but chose not to and was awarded by having his record cemented possibly forever ? If somebody breaks Rocky's record, I hope it will be a person of Rocky's character... Somebody who deserves it and somebody who did not choose opponents he knew he will easily defeat. Most of the time, Rocky fought the best. When Larry Holmes had a chance to match Marciano's 49-0 record, he said: "I'm 35 fighting young men and Rocky was 25 fighting old men-to-be (I say, that was nor Rocky's fault). Rocky Marciano could not carry my jockstrap." He later apologized for his remarks. The United Stated Postal Service released a stamp in May 1999 bearing Rocky's likeness, one story said: "Marciano never took a licking' like what was ahead." But how do they know that? That was in reference to Larry Holmes' statements.
You can read more on controversial fights here: (there are many more of course, but at least in Golota fight, decision was not made hastily, even though many think Golota won) http://www.world-heavyweight-boxing.com/byrdgolota02.html Golota - Byrd http://www.boxinginsider.net/columns/stories/65525918.php De la Hoya - Mosley II http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3110192.stm De la Hoya - Mosley http://www.hbo.com/boxing/fighters/delahoya/index.shtml De la Hoya - Vargas http://geocities.com/projectrocky500/fight.txt Importance of draws/other important stuff (this site)
Boo Maxim's Victory/Floyd vs Maxim:
Floyd Patterson could have been 30-0 when he was fighting for championship. The following has been reported in the papers, the day after Maxim-Patterson fight in 1954:
Joey Maxim, former light heavyweight champ, had enough left at 32 to handle a 19 year old youngster and win an unpopular eight round decision over Floyd P. All three officials voted for Maxim, but a ringside poll of boxing writers showed an 11 to 0 vote for Patterson, unbeaten in 13 pro fights. Referees Ruby Goldstein scored 4-3-1 (seems most fair), Joe Eppy 5-3, Arthur Susskind 7-1. Boos from the 2400 greeted the verdict. Maxim relied upon late flurries while smothering Patterson's heavy fire. Patterson, who scaled 168 and was outweighed by nine lbs, applied almost constant pressure and in the sixth scored heavily.
Well, I am not an expert on scoring and boxing writers do not have complete access to all the angles, but it is obvious Maxim was a better fighter in this bout, still... some say this was a draw. But after a careful analysis I came to conclusion that it's not. Ruby Goldstein was referee, he was a fair man and he scored 4-3-1 for Maxim but this bout is justified but how about countless others which are too close to call to be unjustly declared SD victory ?
Weight Classes:
Weight classes are ridiculous... three to five pounds should not make a different weight class... this system needs to go, 7 pounds is only 3 kilos and is not much of a difference, 10 maximum categories are more than enough, there are at least 5 sanctioning boxing bodies, that's 50 champions, even that is a lot. I'd add super middleweight & cruiserweight to the original 8. I'd recommend the following 10 weight categories both in pro & amateur boxing:
Maximum: Flyweight, up to 112lps (48kg) Bantamweight 119(54) Featherweight 128(58) Lightweight 137(62) Welterweight 148(67) Middleweight 160(72) Super middleweight 170(77) Light heavyweight 181(82) Cruiswerweight 201(91) Heavyweight 201.1(91+kg)
Old Boxing weights: Featherweight 123-126, Lightweight 126-131, Welterweight 141-147, Bantamweigt 115, Cruiserweight 169-175, Light Heavyweight 175-179, Cruiser 175-190, Heavyweight 201+
Forehead (soft, triple layer padded insulated protection) gear should be mandatory in all of
the boxing, way too many intentional & non-intentional headbutts happen, this will avoid too many costly NC's, make headbutts legal in clutches, improve boxing's arsenal, image, outdated heaed defense style. Too many headbutts are impossible to notice nor fully control. Classic, recent example was August 14 2009 fight between Vivian Harris & Noe Bolanos, when Harris came forward to throw right hand, the two fighters clashed heads. Such avoidable accidents can always be prevented with my system of protection.
Floyd Patterson Era: Archie Moore as a Heavyweight:
May 16, 1955 Marciano defends his long time coming championship against Don Cockell. Marciano is in top condition while Cockell fights too frequently. Marciano is not challenged by the challenger and pounds on him mercilessly. Marciano by TKO over Cockell at 2:52 of the 3rd round. (Real life: Marciano KO's Cockell in the 9th round, was Rocky fighting longer just so the fans get their money's worth? )
September 21, 1955 Rocky Marciano announces that win or lose, this will be his final fight. (probably saying that to get big pay day for his 6.56 fight, but nothing ever came about) He agrees to take on the light-heavyweight champion and ageless wonder, Archie Moore. Moore will appear as post-prime but still tough as nails. Both fighters are in top condition. The 'old mongoose' is cooked. Rocky Marciano KO's Archie Moore at 2:34 of the 1st round. (Real life: Marciano KO's Moore in the 9th round, Moore was saved in the 6th round, by the bell) BY NOT FIGHTING VALDES, BAKER, HURRICANE JACKSON OR FLOYD, 50TH WIN AND 7th TITLE DEFENSE WOULD HAVE BEEN GOLDEN. IN 1959 ROCKY VS JOHANNSON, NOBODY WAS REALLY INTERESTED, ROCKY TRAINS FOR THE COME-BACK BUT THE FIGHT WAS BLOCKED BY PATTERSON'S MANAGER CUSP D'AMATO. WHERE WERE YOU ROCKY IN 1956 !?? BRAZIL ? I HOPE SO... ROCKY PROMISED VALDES THE FIGHT IN JUNE, BUT VALDES' BOXING WAS BAD AND THEREFORE NO FIGHT EVER HAPPENED. BUT PROSPECTS SURELY WERE THERE...
ARCHIE MOORE PARODY / FLOYD PATTERSON ERA (with comical twist):
November 30, 1956 (This is the day when Rocky's championship came to an end, but if he fought on he could have kept it until 1957) The vacant Heavyweight title will be contested between the 'aged mongoose' Archie Moore and the youngster (pre-prime) Floyd Patterson. Both fighters are in top condition. This was the closest fight of all the fights. Each fighter was knocked down once. Judge 1 scores it 8-7 in favor of Patterson. Judge 2 scores it 8-7 in favor of Moore. Judge 3 scores it 8-7 in favor of Moore. Archie is 42, Floyd is 21. Archie Moore is declared champion by virtue of a split decision over Floyd Patterson. (Real life: Patterson by KO over 39 year old Moore in the 5th round, easy fight) Patterson wins his 4 previous fights, he qualifies by beating Hurricane Jackson on split decision in 12, June 7 1956.
July 29, 1957 The ageless or aging Moore will face the Hurricane, Tommy Jackson. Moore is in top condition while Jackson is over trained. Archie is the tough mongoose tonight. Moore KO's Jackson at the 30 second mark of the 6th round. (Real life: Patterson by TKO over Jackson in the 10th round, Jackson hurt badly, winds up in the hospital next day)
August 22, 1957 Archie Moore decides to give a shot to Olympic Champion Pete Rademacher for Rodemacher's first pro fight. However, the ruling of body of this Heavyweight Title Replay will not sanction the fight due to Rademacher not being in the database that comes with the game. (Real life: Patterson KO's Rademacher in Round 6)
August 18, 1958 The seemingly ageless Archie Moore takes on a challenger from Cut and Shoot, Texas. Roy Harris who is undefeated and never fought outside the state of Texas will travel to Los Angeles to face Moore. Both fighters are in top condition. The fight goes the distance with Moore scoring 2 knockdowns while Harris scores 1. Archie Moore by unanimous decision (10-4, 10-4, 9-5) over Roy Harris. (Real life: Patterson KO's Harris in Round 13)
May 1, 1959 Archie Moore will face a pre-prime (by just a month) Brian London. London, although not from London, is still English. Both fighters are in top condition. London knocks Moore down 29 seconds into the fight. London leads the fight when the physician stops the fight due to the condition of London's right eye. Archie Moore by TKO at 1:40 of Round 8. (Real life: Patterson by KO over London in Round 11, retains title)
June 26, 1959, New York Archie Moore goes on and on and on and this time goes on to fight Ingemar Johansson. Both fighters are in top condition. Johansson knocks down Moore 5 times in this fight before the glorious reign of Archie Moore comes to an end. Ingemar Johansson by KO over Archie Moore at 2:39 of the 11th round. (Real life: Johansson over Patterson by TKO in the 3rd round, Patterson knocked out 7 times, Patterson not ready, underestimated Johansson.
June 20, 1960 Rematch in Switzerlandm at the Polo grounds, Patterson regains his title. Johansson should have waited a week, so he keeps the title for a full year. Patterson's KO in fifth.
March 14 1961, Miami Beach, Third match, Patterson over Johansson Ingemar. Patterson's in 6th round.
December 4, 1961 In Toronto, CAN Patterson knocks out Tom McNealey in the 4th.
Sept 25, 1962, Chicago Comiskey Park Knockout in first round by Sunny Liston.
July 22, 1963, Las Vegas Liston over Patteron in first round, Knockout. 2:10 Patterson was psychologically beaten by somebody he could have beaten.
November 22, 1965 in Las Vegas Ali beat Patterson after 12 rounds. Patterson had no foot work, Patterson's hand speed was equal to Ali's. In 1972, Floyd fought Ali and lost by a TKO, then he retired.
Copyrighted 2004-7 by Rocky Memorial Group. Also: Piano Reproducing Rolls, Murder Conspiracies of Bern & Reeves (death in same location, 20 years apart), Books Of Wisdom & Quotes, etc... All rights reserved!
In order for a 10+ rounds fight to end after midnight, 23:20 is the start time:
11:22/23:22 11:17/23:17
10 Rounds = 12:02 11:57 11 Rounds = 12:06 12:01 12 Rounds = 12:10 12:05