User talk:Peter Z.
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Thanks-Peter Z
Hi
Hi - I have reorganised your article somewhat by placing a parent article in mainspace (click the link for 'parent article'), which will contain links to all the bad historyarticles in Wikipedia. I have moved and edited material in your article and placed it in the parent article. The child article will then be expressly about the former Yugoslavia and its history, or rather, about the treatment in the Wikipedia articles compared to the modern independent scholarly view. I have looked at some of the Wikipedia articles and you seem to have stumbled upon a real can of worms. Well done. I have edited the article to remove some of the strident turns of phrase you have used - to make a really strong and forceful case it is necessary to speak quieter, rather than louder. Regards Ockham 04:16, 4 October 2009 (PDT)
- PS See my links about Bleiburg [1] - the edits by 'Direktor' are laughable. Ockham 04:43, 4 October 2009 (PDT)
Wikipedia & Political Agendas
The Dictator Tito's article needs more info on how the first two decades of Tito's reign was run. From 1944 onwards his style of government was very similar to that of Stalin's. Tito was a member of the Soviet Communist Party and the notorious Soviet Police-NKVD [2] (this is mentioned just briefly in the Wiki article). He and his comrades set up KGB style police units (UDBA [3] [4] & OZNA [5]) in former Yugoslavia and also had Partisan Death Squads doing their thing towards the end of the war (I personally met two of these old partisans). I will expand on all of these in an encyclopedic fashion. Work on Bleiburg massacre is great. On the weekend, I checked out the other articles (concerning the Balkans) and there is a pattern happening here too, will inform later.
I would like to expand the parent article with how the political spin is done on Wiki (which I'm going to add later). This could apply to all articles (you have already started on something similar, this is-great).
Also the way Wiki is being run from within. Is it becoming more like George Orwell's "1984 & Animal Farm" (with every passing day)? That is if you agree with this.
Wiki's future and how this is going to affect information (political info & other) on the Internet (& society). Does it need to have a moral obligation (Yes) ?
Wiki's editorial style of work ([6]-scroll down to Balkanic business/Dalmatia not exactly Croatia) is this the way to build an encyclopedia?
Ps Partisan Editor’s Hm mm, maybe Comrade Editors would be better. Cheers Peter Z. 01:27, 6 October 2009 (PDT)
The Four Corners might not be suitable for the article? Peter Z. 19:22, 6 October 2009 (PDT)
- Hi this is good - see if you can edit the talk pages of the parent article. If not, leave something in my talk directory and I will edit it in. Do you not belong to Wikikpedia Review? That is the place where all the dirt is dished, these days. There is a major scandal going on at the moment. Ockham 11:56, 8 October 2009 (PDT)
- Hm mm, there seems to be a lot more of dirt being dished out than I realized. Thanks for that! Peter Z. 19:49, 9 October 2009 (PDT)
Wiki Balkan Dramas [7]
Information on www.spiritus-temporis.com
War crimes Under Tito (Commanded all partisans and Communists)
"The Bleiburg massacre occurred near to the end of World War II, during May 1945. It is named after the village of Bleiburg on the Austrian-Slovenian border, near where the massacre began. It involved mass murder of Croatian soldiers and civilians who were fleeing from the defeated Independent State of Croatia, a puppet state of the Nazi regime in Germany. The atrocities were a reprisal against the real or alleged members or collaborators of the fascist regime, by the communist Yugoslav partisan army, presumably with the full knowledge of their supreme commander Josip Broz Tito, who was himself half-Croatian.
Although a still undefined number of Croatian soldiers died during a series of battles and skirmishes, it is generally accepted that the vast portion of violent deaths were the result of executions that lasted at least two weeks after the cessation of hostilities. The victims were Croatian soldiers and civilians, executed without trial as an act of vengeance for the crimes committed by the Ustasi regime in Croatian-controlled territories during World War II — frequently in overtly gruesome manner (mass rape and subsequent killing by stoning of women; beheading of Croatian disarmed soldiers). Murder continued in nearby Slovenia, and it is hard to estimate the number of victims in Bleiburg field, compared to those later found in the trenches in the Maribor area and other numerous pits in Slovenia. Many captives were sent on a death march further into Yugoslav territory.
Croatian political emigration, as well as other sources related to the Cossacks, had published numerous testimonies on the atrocities and British involvement in the affair (interestingly enough, British archives on the Operation Keelhaul tragedy are still sealed), but their publications have received little attention since communist Yugoslavia was the West's protege and the buffer-zone to the Soviets in the post-war period."
Now how can the leadership of the partisans not be responsible for these events? May be they just had a bad day at one of there Communists Party meetings. Sir Floyd (talk) 04:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, poor Nazis and fascists. After they've brutally murdered 2 million Yugoslavs in 4 years the partisan's should've simply pardoned them for misbehaving. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 11:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
- The key word in your post being "presumably". :) Find yourself another one of your crappy "forums" to talk about your presumptions. Just forget about this, Luigi/Brunodam, you're not annoying anyone - you're just turning out amusing. I think I'll file a checkuser in an hour or so, you'd better believe it when I say I'll delete everything you wrote if you're a sock. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
- Whitewashing? As I understand it, Tito was a fairly controversial leader, whose political legacy is still under debate by scholars. What I don't understand is why this article is devoid of any discussion of this scholarly contention. It seems this article is more focused towards listing Tito's awards than presenting any meaningful scholarly analysis of the man. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:08, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Note: Ivan Štambuk statement is very interesting. It might be there just for the benefit of the other Editors, who might not know nothing about the historical events of WW2. This happens a lot with the Balkan Editors (something to think about). Peter Z. 00:41, 10 October 2009 (PDT)
Wiki's Encyclopedic Editors Style of Communication
- Hoping that your essays will attract other, real users and start a fake dispute about a non-existing controversy? Nice try... --DIREKTOR 6 August 2009
- Why in the world would I want to ban you? You're wacky, you're a lot of fun - I like that! :D And since even a brain-dead, brutish Slav communist can see through your sockpuppet "disguise", you're really not a problem.DIREKTOR 6 August 2009
- Don't you worry Rex old boy, "my menace" is here to stay.It only gets more annoying and "menacing" as the months and years go by... xD gosh I'm evil.DIREKTOR, 14 August 2009
- My very well sourced propaganda, Rex, lets not forget. With your sock report I doubt you'll have to endure the um..."suffering" for much longer. ;) --DIREKTOR 14 August 2009
Note: This communication is towards a new Editor who is not a Shockpuppet. Editor DIREKTOR is being considered (by some in Wiki) to be nominated for Admi.
Hi
I can see this is all coming on nicely! I am not always around but feel free to leave a message. Ockham 05:18, 21 October 2009 (PDT)
Josip Broz Tito-Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Article!
Wikipedia’s article on Josip Broz Tito is mostly Communist propaganda of the defunct Communist Party of the former Yugoslavia. As it turns out Jimmy Wales have provided a perfect vehicle for propaganda of this type. Written by Editors from Croatia and supported by other Editors who have Communist leanings. The article is written in a total non-encyclopedic fashion.
The usage of Wikipedia as a tool for promoting this type of propaganda is second only to Google itself. It is quite possible that this came about, due to the fact that other editors and Admin are simply, uneducated in these matters. This exposes a major flaw of Wikipedia, which is “a group of editors can learn to work the system so they can promote their own point of view, so that the article will become a stated Wiki fact, and itself a piece of history".
Josip Broz was the Commander of all Partisans and Communists during WWII. He then later became Yugoslavia's political leader and was the main decision maker in military and political matters. During the Cold War he was portrayed to the people of Yugoslavia and to the West as a hero.He was considered to be by many, one of the prominent Eastern European Balkan Dictators of the Cold War era. After the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the former Yugoslavia, factual evidence has emerged that his regime was responsible of executing mass murders, arrests and torture. The worst being the notorious Bleiburg and Foibe massacres. After World War Two, Tito and his comrades set up KGB/NKVD style police units (UDBA & OZNA) and unleashed terror in former Yugoslavia on a grand scale.
Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating a feel good article about a man who played a major role in these historicial events. How many more articles are being written within Wikipedia that are just the point of view of its Editors? This not very encyclopedic that's for sure.
