Talk:Korcula Dialect - Revision history

Peter Z.: clean up

2015-05-26T09:43:43Z

clean up

Peter Z.: Clean up

2015-05-26T09:39:51Z

Clean up

Peter Z.: removed UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000022-QINU

2014-06-25T06:04:56Z

removed UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000022-QINU

Peter Z.: rv UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000021-QINU has the reference system died?

2014-06-25T04:57:53Z

rv UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000021-QINU has the reference system died?

Peter Z.: bold

2014-06-24T08:08:23Z

bold

Peter Z.: tidy

2014-06-24T08:07:27Z

tidy

Peter Z.: link

2014-06-24T08:06:30Z

link

Peter Z.: /* Chronology */ fix

2012-06-05T06:13:50Z

Chronology: fix

Peter Z.: /* Chronology */

2012-06-05T06:12:08Z

Chronology

Peter Z.: /* Language evolution on the island (just a theory) */

2012-06-05T06:09:14Z

Language evolution on the island (just a theory)

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 '''Link to the actual article (this is a work page) is here: [http://mywikibiz.com/Korcula_Dialect KorculaDialect]'''
 == Concerns ==
 A large proportion of information (books,articles) concerning the former Yugoslavia reminded me of the Yugoslavian encyclopaedias of the 1970s. The encyclopaedias were written in the same style as the '''Great Soviet Encyclopaedia'''.
@@ Line 153: / Line 123: @@
 [[File:300px-Serbo croatian dialects historical distribution.png|thumb|right|800px|Western '''Balkans Slavic dialects''' (or languages) historical distribution in the 16 century.
 Blue is '''Chakavian''' whist green is West Shokavian and pink is East Shokavian. (''Map by Panonian'')]]

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 Quote from ''"The Land of 1000 Islands"'' by Igor Rudan:
-{{Cquote| However, the clashes between the Ottoman Empire and Venetian Republic produced extensive migrations from the mainland areas, especially from today's Bosnia and Herzegovina, to the eastern parts of the islands of Brac, Hvar, '''Korcula''', and Pag }}
+{{quote| However, the clashes between the Ottoman Empire and Venetian Republic produced extensive migrations from the mainland areas, especially from today's Bosnia and Herzegovina, to the eastern parts of the islands of Brac, Hvar, '''Korcula''', and Pag }}
 The new arrivals  to the island who were predominately Slavic (Shtokavian) speakers and must have put the Slavic speaks (Old Croatian Slavic - Chakavian '''+''' Slavic - Shtokavian) on the island in a '''majority'''. Interesting today Croatians and Serbs share this dialect. Venetian was still ''Lingua franca'' on the island and must have replaced Latin as the official written language.
@@ Line 47: / Line 47: @@
 === VKokielov ===
-{{Cquote|'''Croatian''' is a South Slavic language spoken in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and neighbouring countries, as well as by the Croatian Diaspora worldwide. Linguists have called it a form of Serbo-Croatian language , using the term invented by the ''Illyrian movement'' to underscore the grammatical and lexical closeness of the three standard languages across the shtokavian dialect area of speech; the same term was adopted by the federal Yugoslav government.  Notwithstanding this, the name ''Serbo-Croatian'' was not, in general, heard from shtokavian speakers. The two archaic Slavic dialects traditionally and perhaps arbitrarily ascribed to Serbo-Croatian, Chakavian and Kajkavian dialect are exclusively Croatian.  It may be noted that these dialects once spanned a broader area; chakavian was spoken throughout Istria and Dalmatia and kajkavian reached from Zagorje out to Zagreb.  But since the Turkish invasion five hundred years ago, shtokavian speakers have been moving west, displacing by various degrees the old speech.
+{{quote|'''Croatian''' is a South Slavic language spoken in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and neighbouring countries, as well as by the Croatian Diaspora worldwide. Linguists have called it a form of Serbo-Croatian language , using the term invented by the ''Illyrian movement'' to underscore the grammatical and lexical closeness of the three standard languages across the shtokavian dialect area of speech; the same term was adopted by the federal Yugoslav government.  Notwithstanding this, the name ''Serbo-Croatian'' was not, in general, heard from shtokavian speakers. The two archaic Slavic dialects traditionally and perhaps arbitrarily ascribed to Serbo-Croatian, Chakavian and Kajkavian dialect are exclusively Croatian.  It may be noted that these dialects once spanned a broader area; chakavian was spoken throughout Istria and Dalmatia and kajkavian reached from Zagorje out to Zagreb.  But since the Turkish invasion five hundred years ago, shtokavian speakers have been moving west, displacing by various degrees the old speech.
 The south Slavic linguistic question is brittle and complex.  The bloody, destructive wars of the 1990s put an end for good to the Illyrian idea of a Serbian-Croatian nation (together with the Bosniaks, whom the Illyrians called Serbs or Croats converted to Islam), and with it to the notion of a unitary language. Croatian is written in Gaj's Latin alphabet, based on Czech.UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000023-QINU  The same alphabet is used for Bosnian and Serbian. Statement by VKokielov (Wikipedia)}}

@@ Line 47: / Line 47: @@
 === VKokielov ===
-{{Cquote|'''Croatian''' is a South Slavic language spoken in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and neighbouring countries, as well as by the Croatian Diaspora worldwide. Linguists have called it a form of Serbo-Croatian language UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000022-QINU, using the term invented by the ''Illyrian movement'' to underscore the grammatical and lexical closeness of the three standard languages across the shtokavian dialect area of speech; the same term was adopted by the federal Yugoslav government.  Notwithstanding this, the name ''Serbo-Croatian'' was not, in general, heard from shtokavian speakers. The two archaic Slavic dialects traditionally and perhaps arbitrarily ascribed to Serbo-Croatian, Chakavian and Kajkavian dialect are exclusively Croatian.  It may be noted that these dialects once spanned a broader area; chakavian was spoken throughout Istria and Dalmatia and kajkavian reached from Zagorje out to Zagreb.  But since the Turkish invasion five hundred years ago, shtokavian speakers have been moving west, displacing by various degrees the old speech.
+{{Cquote|'''Croatian''' is a South Slavic language spoken in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and neighbouring countries, as well as by the Croatian Diaspora worldwide. Linguists have called it a form of Serbo-Croatian language , using the term invented by the ''Illyrian movement'' to underscore the grammatical and lexical closeness of the three standard languages across the shtokavian dialect area of speech; the same term was adopted by the federal Yugoslav government.  Notwithstanding this, the name ''Serbo-Croatian'' was not, in general, heard from shtokavian speakers. The two archaic Slavic dialects traditionally and perhaps arbitrarily ascribed to Serbo-Croatian, Chakavian and Kajkavian dialect are exclusively Croatian.  It may be noted that these dialects once spanned a broader area; chakavian was spoken throughout Istria and Dalmatia and kajkavian reached from Zagorje out to Zagreb.  But since the Turkish invasion five hundred years ago, shtokavian speakers have been moving west, displacing by various degrees the old speech.
 The south Slavic linguistic question is brittle and complex.  The bloody, destructive wars of the 1990s put an end for good to the Illyrian idea of a Serbian-Croatian nation (together with the Bosniaks, whom the Illyrians called Serbs or Croats converted to Islam), and with it to the notion of a unitary language. Croatian is written in Gaj's Latin alphabet, based on Czech.UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000023-QINU  The same alphabet is used for Bosnian and Serbian. Statement by VKokielov (Wikipedia)}}
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 It was in this historical environment that the standardise language arrived (Serbo-Croatian) or it could be said '''enforced''' by governments. Thanks to the old Yugoslav and Austro-Hungarian education system communities now in the region started be influenced by standardise language. It is interesting that the issue of certain ''Croatian Dialects'' how little is mention of the non Slavic words that are present in there vocabulary i.e. Korcula Dialects.
-After the '''Napoleonic Wars''' the political situation stated to change and one of them was the nationalistic movement of the 19th century. In the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia within the  Austro-Hungarian Empire a [[Croatia|Croatian]] nationalistic movement was established and alongside that, within the Balkan region a Pan-Slavic movement was growing (the beginnings of the ill fated Yugoslavia). These political on goings started to be felt in the Kingdom of Dalmatia (also part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire). The Austrians in the 1860s started to introduce within the Kingdom of Dalmatia a standardised Croatian language sometimes referred to as '''Illirski'''.UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000024-QINU It then replaced Italian altogether. In effect the government undertook culture genocide. For centuries the Italian language was the official language of the Dalmatian establishment. It was also the spoken language in white-collar, civil service and merchant families. UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000025-QINU
+After the '''Napoleonic Wars''' the political situation stated to change and one of them was the nationalistic movement of the 19th century. In the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia within the  Austro-Hungarian Empire a [[Croatia|Croatian]] nationalistic movement was established and alongside that, within the Balkan region a Pan-Slavic movement was growing (the beginnings of the ill fated Yugoslavia). These political on goings started to be felt in the Kingdom of Dalmatia (also part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire). The Austrians in the 1860s started to introduce within the Kingdom of Dalmatia a standardised Croatian language sometimes referred to as '''Illirski'''.UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000024-QINU It then replaced Italian altogether. In effect the government undertook culture genocide. For centuries the Italian language was the official language of the Dalmatian establishment. It was also the spoken language in white-collar, civil service and merchant families.
-The process of creating a standardised Croatian language was incomplete. This is reflected in its labelling of the language as Croatian, Croatian-Serbo and the very unpopular Serbo-Croatian. This was a fundamental mistake made when political extremist ideology influenced decision-making regarding language and culture. It was an attempt at imitating Western imperial empire building egotism (a super Southern Slav State), which failed. Note below: {{Cquote|''Robert Greenberg, the foremost English-language scholar on South Slav languages, believes the root of the language polemic lies in the Vienna agreement of 1850, which “reversed several centuries of natural Abstand developments for the languages of Orthodox Southern Slavs and Catholic Southern Slavs.” (Greenberg 2004, 23) Croatians and Serbians came to the negotiating table with differing experiences. Serbian linguists were standardizing a single dialect of rural speech and breaking with the archaic Slaveno-Serbian heritage of the eighteenth century “Serbian enlightenment.” Early [[Croatia|Croat]] nationalists proposed a standard language based on a widely spoken dialect linked with the literature of the Croatian Renaissance. With an eye towards South Slav unity they also encouraged liberal borrowing from various dialects (Greenberg 2004, 24-26). This basic difference in approach created conflicts throughout the history of the South Slav movement and the Yugoslav state (Greenberg 2004, 48).'' UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000026-QINU}}
+The process of creating a standardised Croatian language was incomplete. This is reflected in its labelling of the language as Croatian, Croatian-Serbo and the very unpopular Serbo-Croatian. This was a fundamental mistake made when political extremist ideology influenced decision-making regarding language and culture. It was an attempt at imitating Western imperial empire building egotism (a super Southern Slav State), which failed. Note below: {{Cquote|''Robert Greenberg, the foremost English-language scholar on South Slav languages, believes the root of the language polemic lies in the Vienna agreement of 1850, which “reversed several centuries of natural Abstand developments for the languages of Orthodox Southern Slavs and Catholic Southern Slavs.” (Greenberg 2004, 23) Croatians and Serbians came to the negotiating table with differing experiences. Serbian linguists were standardizing a single dialect of rural speech and breaking with the archaic Slaveno-Serbian heritage of the eighteenth century “Serbian enlightenment.” Early [[Croatia|Croat]] nationalists proposed a standard language based on a widely spoken dialect linked with the literature of the Croatian Renaissance. With an eye towards South Slav unity they also encouraged liberal borrowing from various dialects (Greenberg 2004, 24-26). This basic difference in approach created conflicts throughout the history of the South Slav movement and the Yugoslav state (Greenberg 2004, 48).''
 A process of [[Croatisation]] of the Republic of Ragusa's history began in the 19th century and this process is still continuing today. This process happened firstly in relation to the Ragusan-Slavic history and later with the Ragusan-Italianic history. In relation to this Croatisation of history, '''Gianfrancesco Gondola''' (1589 -1638) a Ragusan Baroque poet from Republic of Ragusa has ''become'' a Croatian Baroque poet called Ivan Gundulić from Dubrovnik, Croatia.
-Ivan Gundulic wrote many works in Italian and Slavic (today referred to as CroatianUNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000027-QINU). One of these was the Slavic poem [http://books.google.com/books?id=J8coAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false Osman]. Interestingly, in 1967 his work was referred to as ''"The works of the greatest poet of early Yugoslav literature, Ivan Gundulić"'' taken from the book Dubrovnik by Bariša KrekićUNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000028-QINU
+Ivan Gundulic wrote many works in Italian and Slavic (today referred to as Croatian). One of these was the Slavic poem [http://books.google.com/books?id=J8coAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false Osman]. Interestingly, in 1967 his work was referred to as ''"The works of the greatest poet of early Yugoslav literature, Ivan Gundulić"'' taken from the book Dubrovnik by Bariša Krekić
 The '''first''' primary source mention of the Croatian identity in the Balkans was Dux Cruatorum Branimero ''or'' Prince Branimir inscription, c.''' 880''' AD from town of Nin-Croatia (Old Dalmatia).  In 1853 a Russian archaeologist Pavel Mikhailovich Leontjev discovered the ''Tanais Tablets''. The Tanais Tablets mention three men: Horoúathos, Horoáthos, and Horóathos (Χορούαθ[ος], Χοροάθος, Χορόαθος). They are written in Greek and are from the '''3rd century''' AD from the city of Tanais, today's Azov, Russia. At that time it had mixed Greek - Sarmatian (Iranian) population.

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-'''Link to the actual article (this ia work page) is here: [http://mywikibiz.com/Korcula_Dialect KorculaDialect]'''
+'''Link to the actual article (this is a work page) is here: [http://mywikibiz.com/Korcula_Dialect KorculaDialect]'''
 == Language evolution on the island (just a theory) ==
 Language spoken on the island up to becoming part of the Republic of Venice (1420) was the  - '''Dalmatian''' (Romance language) and '''Slavic''' - Chakavian  (Old Croatian). Written language was [[Latin]]. Post 1420 Venetian became ''Lingua franca'' on the island.
@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 Quote from ''"The Land of 1000 Islands"'' by Igor Rudan:
-{{Cquote| However, the clashes between the Ottoman Empire and Venetian Republic produced extensive migrations from the mainland areas, especially from today's Bosnia and Herzegovina, to the eastern parts of the islands of Brac, Hvar, '''Korcula''', and Pag UNIQ70ec0aadb4417dbf-ref-00000021-QINU}}
+{{Cquote| However, the clashes between the Ottoman Empire and Venetian Republic produced extensive migrations from the mainland areas, especially from today's Bosnia and Herzegovina, to the eastern parts of the islands of Brac, Hvar, '''Korcula''', and Pag }}
 The new arrivals  to the island who were predominately Slavic (Shtokavian) speakers and must have put the Slavic speaks (Old Croatian Slavic - Chakavian '''+''' Slavic - Shtokavian) on the island in a '''majority'''. Interesting today Croatians and Serbs share this dialect. Venetian was still ''Lingua franca'' on the island and must have replaced Latin as the official written language.
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 {{GKAdBrite}}
 {{OMGlinks}}

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-Link to the actual article (this ia work page) is here:[http://mywikibiz.com/Korcula_Dialect KorculaDialect]
+'''Link to the actual article (this ia work page) is here: [http://mywikibiz.com/Korcula_Dialect KorculaDialect]'''
 == Language evolution on the island (just a theory) ==
 Language spoken on the island up to becoming part of the Republic of Venice (1420) was the  - '''Dalmatian''' (Romance language) and '''Slavic''' - Chakavian  (Old Croatian). Written language was [[Latin]]. Post 1420 Venetian became ''Lingua franca'' on the island.

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 * Illyrian (Delmatae)
 * Greek
-* Latin
+* Latin (Romans)
-* Romance Dalmatian (Romans)
+* Romance Dalmatian
 * Venetian
 * Slavic  (Old Croatian-Chakavian)