Directory talk:Croatia - Revision history

Peter Z.: /* Chakavian Slavs */ Update, plus Erin proof read

2018-10-07T07:53:28Z

Chakavian Slavs: Update, plus Erin proof read

Peter Z.: /* Chakavian Slavs */ fix

2018-09-30T05:33:00Z

Chakavian Slavs: fix

Peter Z.: /* Chakavian Slavs */

2018-09-30T05:29:51Z

Chakavian Slavs

Peter Z.: Erin proof read

2018-09-30T05:25:00Z

Erin proof read

Peter Z.: /* The Our People */ fix

2018-09-30T04:44:23Z

The Our People: fix

Peter Z.: /* The Our People */

2018-09-30T04:42:09Z

The Our People

Peter Z.: /* The Our People */

2018-09-30T04:41:39Z

The Our People

Peter Z.: Notes and References

2018-09-30T04:40:36Z

Notes and References

Peter Z.: /* The Our People */

2018-09-30T04:39:15Z

The Our People

Peter Z.: /* The Our People */

2018-09-30T04:04:54Z

The Our People

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 ==Chakavian Slavs==
-It is quiet possible that the success of the Chakavian-Slavic tribes set the precedent for the Kajkavian-Slavic speakers and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers to follow suit. There is a very strong probability that the eastern Chakavian-Slavic tribes and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers started to mix. With that the Shtokavian-Slavic language became the ''Lingua Franca'' within the eastern part of Old Roman Dalmatia (thus begins the Shtokavian-Slavic language move westward).
+Old Chakavian Speaking Slavs
-The first written records of Slavic-Croatians started in the late 8th (''as'' Slavs first) and early 9th century.
+What is missing in historic interpretations of the Southern Eastern European lands is the fact they mostly ignore the Roman Latin-Illyrian population (this especially applies to the 19th & 20th century).  It is all about ones nationalism and the mythology that it is built around.  We need to take into account that the old Chakavian Slavic speakers were the ancestors of the Croatian tribes who invaded and settled in a land of predominantly Roman Latin-Illyrian population. The Roman-Illyrian genes have survived to this day which means they did not disappear.
-I believe one of the reasons was that the Croatian tribes started to become western Europeanised (this amongst many others things includes written records). Within Dalmatian Ducatus of the Carolingian Empire (812) certain Croatian leaders became the political elite and took political leadership.  In order to maintain this they became  Christians thus connecting with Rome (''via'' the Carolingian Empire, the Dalmatian Roman City States i.e Spalatum, modern Split and the Republic of Venice). They then created military alliances and trade with neighbors, etc. With this, after a further period of time, the mainland was mostly Slavicized. In terms of language Croatian Slavic Chakavian became ''Lingua Franca'' of the inland area and started to replace Latin Dalmatian (Romance).  It has been written that within the Court of Duke Trpimir (dux Trepimerus/Trepime) two languages were spoken. One Slavic based and the other Latin based.
+Additionally also it has to be taken into account that different Slavic tribes who arrived started mixing with other Slavic tribes as well as with the Roman Latin-Illyrian population. With that we can start to get a more accurate picture of what happened in the past (at least in my eyes).
-With this all happening the Carolingian Empire (as well as others) thought it to be good idea to work as much as possible with the new arrivals Sclaveni-Croatorum for the their own vested interests of a frontier country ('borderland').
+Croatian tribes (old Chakavian Slavic speakers) must have arrived in the former province of the Roman Empire, Dalmatia during the mid 700s (8th Century AD) and made the Dalmatian hinterland their home. One group then ended up as far west as Histri (modern: Istria) and another ended up eastward as far as Montenegro.
-The first of these was duke, Borna.
+There are no contemporary written records of the Slavic-Croatian tribes (Chakavian-Slavic speakers) invasion/migration/settlement or about the events as a whole within the area itself. It is quite possible that the area had a drop in population (due to wars i.e. Frankish-Avar wars) and also due to the lack of a military presence of the Byzantine Empire (aka Eastern Roman Empire, please note they referred to themselves as 'Empire of the Romans' Latin: Imperium Romanum).
 ==The Our People==

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 The first written records of Slavic-Croatians started in the late 8th (''as'' Slavs first) and early 9th century.
-I believe one of the reasons was that the Croatian tribes started to become western Europeanised (this amongst many others things includes written records). Within Dalmatian Ducatus of the Carolingian Empire (812) certain Croatian leaders became the political elite and took political leadership.  In order to maintain this they became  Christians thus connecting with Rome (''via'' the Carolingian Empire, the Dalmatian Roman City States i.e Spalatum, modern Split and the Republic of Venice). They then created military alliances and trade with neighbors, etc. With this, after a further period of time, the mainland was mostly Slavicized. In terms of language Croatian Slavic Chakavian became ''Lingua Franca'' of the inland area and started to replace Latin Dalmatian (Romance).  It has be written that within the Court of Duke Trpimir (dux Trepimerus/Trepime) two languages were spoken. One Slavic based and the other Latin based.
+I believe one of the reasons was that the Croatian tribes started to become western Europeanised (this amongst many others things includes written records). Within Dalmatian Ducatus of the Carolingian Empire (812) certain Croatian leaders became the political elite and took political leadership.  In order to maintain this they became  Christians thus connecting with Rome (''via'' the Carolingian Empire, the Dalmatian Roman City States i.e Spalatum, modern Split and the Republic of Venice). They then created military alliances and trade with neighbors, etc. With this, after a further period of time, the mainland was mostly Slavicized. In terms of language Croatian Slavic Chakavian became ''Lingua Franca'' of the inland area and started to replace Latin Dalmatian (Romance).  It has been written that within the Court of Duke Trpimir (dux Trepimerus/Trepime) two languages were spoken. One Slavic based and the other Latin based.
 With this all happening the Carolingian Empire (as well as others) thought it to be good idea to work as much as possible with the new arrivals Sclaveni-Croatorum for the their own vested interests of a frontier country ('borderland').

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 '''Old''' Chakavian Slavic speakers (Croatian tribes) must have arrived in the mid 700s (8th Century AD) and made the Dalmatian hinterland their home. One group went west as far as Histri (modern: Istria) and the other went eastward to Montenegro.
-There are '''no''' contemporary written records of the Chakavian-Slavic speakers (Slavic-Croatian tribes) invasion/migration/settlement or about the events as a whole within  the area itself. It is quite possible that the area had a drop in population (due to wars i.e. Frankish-Avar wars) and the military presence of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire).
+There are '''no''' contemporary written records of the Chakavian-Slavic speakers (Slavic-Croatian tribes) invasion/migration/settlement or about the events as a whole within  the area itself. It is quite possible that the area had a drop in population (due to wars i.e. Frankish-Avar wars) and the lack of a military presence of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire). Also the military presence of the Carolingian Empire was minimal ''or'' even non existent at that time. This would have lead to an easy invasion of the area (opportunity beckons).  The  Roman Latin-Illyrian population as well as Liburnians, Greeks and others would have to have endured the arrival of the Sclaveni (Slavs). The Roman population survived within the coastal cities, on the islands and in the inhospitable Dinaric Alps.
 It is quiet possible that the success of the Chakavian-Slavic tribes set the precedent for the Kajkavian-Slavic speakers and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers to follow suit. There is a very strong probability that the eastern Chakavian-Slavic tribes and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers started to mix. With that the Shtokavian-Slavic language became the ''Lingua Franca'' within the eastern part of Old Roman Dalmatia (thus begins the Shtokavian-Slavic language move westward).
@@ Line 23: / Line 22: @@
 I believe one of the reasons was that the Croatian tribes started to become western Europeanised (this amongst many others things includes written records). Within Dalmatian Ducatus of the Carolingian Empire (812) certain Croatian leaders became the political elite and took political leadership.  In order to maintain this they became  Christians thus connecting with Rome (''via'' the Carolingian Empire, the Dalmatian Roman City States i.e Spalatum, modern Split and the Republic of Venice). They then created military alliances and trade with neighbors, etc. With this, after a further period of time, the mainland was mostly Slavicized. In terms of language Croatian Slavic Chakavian became ''Lingua Franca'' of the inland area and started to replace Latin Dalmatian (Romance).  It has be written that within the Court of Duke Trpimir (dux Trepimerus/Trepime) two languages were spoken. One Slavic based and the other Latin based.
-With this all happening the Carolingian Empire (as well as others) thought it to be good idea to work as much as possible with the new arrivals Sclaveni-Croatorum for the their own vested interests.
+With this all happening the Carolingian Empire (as well as others) thought it to be good idea to work as much as possible with the new arrivals Sclaveni-Croatorum for the their own vested interests of a frontier country ('borderland').
 The first of these was duke, Borna.
 ==The Our People==

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 ==Chakavian Slavs==
-'''Old''' Chakavian Slavic speakers (Croatian tribes) must have arrived in the mid 700s (8th Century AD) and made the Dalmatian hinterland there home, one group went west as far as Histri (modern: Istria) and the other eastward to Montenegro.
+'''Old''' Chakavian Slavic speakers (Croatian tribes) must have arrived in the mid 700s (8th Century AD) and made the Dalmatian hinterland their home. One group went west as far as Histri (modern: Istria) and the other went eastward to Montenegro.
-There are '''no''' contemporary written records of Chakavian-Slavic speakers (Slavic-Croatian tribes) invasion/migration/settlement or about the events as a whole within  the area itself. It is quite possible that the area had a drop in population (due to wars i.e. Frankish-Avar wars) and the military presents of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) and the Carolingian Empire was minimal ''or'' even non existent. This would have lead to an easy invasion the of the area (opportunity beckons).  The  Roman Latin-Illyrian population as well as Liburnians, Greeks and others would have to have endured the arrival of the Sclaveni (Slavs). The Roman population survived within the coastal cities, on the islands and in the inhospitable Dinaric Alps.
+There are '''no''' contemporary written records of the Chakavian-Slavic speakers (Slavic-Croatian tribes) invasion/migration/settlement or about the events as a whole within  the area itself. It is quite possible that the area had a drop in population (due to wars i.e. Frankish-Avar wars) and the military presence of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire).
-It is quiet possible that the success of the Chakavian-Slavic tribes set the precedent for the Kajkavian-Slavic speakers and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers to follow suit. There is a very strong probability that the eastern Chakavian-Slavic tribes and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers started to mix, with that the Shtokavian-Slavic language becoming the ''Lingua Franca'' within the eastern part of Old Roman Dalmatia (thus begins Shtokavian-Slavic language move westward).
+It is quiet possible that the success of the Chakavian-Slavic tribes set the precedent for the Kajkavian-Slavic speakers and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers to follow suit. There is a very strong probability that the eastern Chakavian-Slavic tribes and Shtokavian-Slavic speakers started to mix. With that the Shtokavian-Slavic language became the ''Lingua Franca'' within the eastern part of Old Roman Dalmatia (thus begins the Shtokavian-Slavic language move westward).
 The first written records of Slavic-Croatians started in the late 8th (''as'' Slavs first) and early 9th century.
-I believe one of the reasons was that the Croatian tribes started to become western Europeanised (this amongst many others things includes written records). Within Dalmatian Ducatus of the Carolingian Empire (812) certain Croatian leaders became the political elite and took political leadership.  In order to maintain this they became  Christians thus connecting with Rome (''via'' Carolingian Empire, the Dalmatian Roman City States i.e Spalatum, modern Split and the Republic of Venice). Then creating military alliances and trade with neighbors, etc, with this after a further period of time the mainland was mostly Slavicized. In terms of language Croatian Slavic Chakavian became ''Lingua Franca'' of the inland area and started to replace Latin Dalmatian (Romance).  It has be written that within the Court of Duke Trpimir (dux Trepimerus/Trepime) two languages where spoken, one Slavic based and the other Latin based.
+I believe one of the reasons was that the Croatian tribes started to become western Europeanised (this amongst many others things includes written records). Within Dalmatian Ducatus of the Carolingian Empire (812) certain Croatian leaders became the political elite and took political leadership.  In order to maintain this they became  Christians thus connecting with Rome (''via'' the Carolingian Empire, the Dalmatian Roman City States i.e Spalatum, modern Split and the Republic of Venice). They then created military alliances and trade with neighbors, etc. With this, after a further period of time, the mainland was mostly Slavicized. In terms of language Croatian Slavic Chakavian became ''Lingua Franca'' of the inland area and started to replace Latin Dalmatian (Romance).  It has be written that within the Court of Duke Trpimir (dux Trepimerus/Trepime) two languages were spoken. One Slavic based and the other Latin based.
-With this all happening the Carolingian Empire (as well as others) thought it to be good idea to work with as much as possible with the new arrivals Sclaveni-Croatorum for the there own invested interests.
+With this all happening the Carolingian Empire (as well as others) thought it to be good idea to work as much as possible with the new arrivals Sclaveni-Croatorum for the their own vested interests.
 The first of these was duke, Borna.
 ==The Our People==
-The ''Naši People'' meaning  'Our People' or ''our own kind''.
+The ''Naši'' meaning  'Our People' or ''our own kind''.
 *Naš jezik meaning ''our language''.
@@ Line 47: / Line 48: @@
 Historic Croatia
 then became part of .....
 Kingdom of Hungary ''or'' Regnum Hungariae

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:44, 30 September 2018
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−	Sir John Gardner Wilkinson mentions it in 1848: Naski <ref>Sir John Gardner Wilkinson[ https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ONQBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA33&dq=Sir+John+Gardner+Wilkinson+naski+signifying+%22ours%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs0eul8-HdAhUIc3AKHcw4DPcQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Sir%20John%20Gardner%20Wilkinson%20naski%20signifying%20%22ours%22&f=false</ref>	+	Sir John Gardner Wilkinson mentions it in 1848: Naski <ref>Sir John Gardner Wilkinson [https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ONQBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA33&dq=Sir+John+Gardner+Wilkinson+naski+signifying+%22ours%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs0eul8-HdAhUIc3AKHcw4DPcQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Sir%20John%20Gardner%20Wilkinson%20naski%20signifying%20%22ours%22&f=false]</ref>

	'''Chronology'''		'''Chronology'''

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:42, 30 September 2018
Line 33:		Line 33:


−	Sir John Gardner Wilkinson mentions it in 1848: Naski <ref>[Sir John Gardner Wilkinson https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ONQBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA33&dq=Sir+John+Gardner+Wilkinson+naski+signifying+%22ours%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs0eul8-HdAhUIc3AKHcw4DPcQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Sir%20John%20Gardner%20Wilkinson%20naski%20signifying%20%22ours%22&f=false</ref>	+	Sir John Gardner Wilkinson mentions it in 1848: Naski <ref>Sir John Gardner Wilkinson[ https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ONQBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA33&dq=Sir+John+Gardner+Wilkinson+naski+signifying+%22ours%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs0eul8-HdAhUIc3AKHcw4DPcQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Sir%20John%20Gardner%20Wilkinson%20naski%20signifying%20%22ours%22&f=false</ref>

	'''Chronology'''		'''Chronology'''

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:41, 30 September 2018
Line 33:		Line 33:


−	Sir John Gardner Wilkinson mentions it in 1848: Naski <ref>[https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ONQBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA33&dq=Sir+John+Gardner+Wilkinson+naski+signifying+%22ours%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs0eul8-HdAhUIc3AKHcw4DPcQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Sir%20John%20Gardner%20Wilkinson%20naski%20signifying%20%22ours%22&f=false</ref>	+	Sir John Gardner Wilkinson mentions it in 1848: Naski <ref>[Sir John Gardner Wilkinson https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ONQBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA33&dq=Sir+John+Gardner+Wilkinson+naski+signifying+%22ours%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs0eul8-HdAhUIc3AKHcw4DPcQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Sir%20John%20Gardner%20Wilkinson%20naski%20signifying%20%22ours%22&f=false</ref>

	'''Chronology'''		'''Chronology'''

@@ Line 75: / Line 75: @@
 [[File:290px-Croatia topo.jpg|thumb|left|450px| Croatia today (Hrvatska)]]
 [[File:Balkans850 copy crop Peter Z.jpg|thumb|left|250px| Medieval Croatia (Map by Hxseek) 9th to 10th century. According to some sources during rule of kings Peter Krešimir IV (1058-1074) and Demetrius Zvonimir (1075-1089), Medieval Croatia was even larger. ]]
+==Notes and References==

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 ==The Our People==
-The ''Naši People'' meaning  'Our People'.
+The ''Naši People'' meaning  'Our People' or ''our own kind''.
 '''Chronology'''