MyWikiBiz - User contributions [en]

User talk:Centiare

2006-12-08T15:09:39Z

Zanimum: Clarifying

= Overall "Standards & Rules" =

Karl, I have examined the site pretty carefully today, and I am seeing as a result of that the following "priority" issues that we should address as quickly as possible (before much more content is added):

== Income formatting in the Infobox ==

Karl, please take a look at [http://www.centiare.com/index.php?title=Directory_talk:IBM&oldid=2576 this] question. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 13:10, 15 November 2006 (PST)

== Info Boxes ==

We need to devise ''final'' '''Infobox Standards''' for the following entities:

:*Public for-profit corporations
:*Private for-profit firms (which may be satisfied above)
:*Non-profit entities
:*Human beings (whether they are business officers, celebrities, artists, or job-seekers)

: I think the for-profit infobox_company works equally well for either public or private firms. There's only a few major sections that need data elements - public information is merely a subset within certain sections. All one needs to do for private firm is eliminate unnecessary data references within those respective sections.--[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 14:05, 15 November 2006 (PST)

:: In terms of other info_boxes, the sky really is the limit. As I indicated to you, the Directory potential is much greater than just operating enterprises and/or individuals. For example, with the semantic tagging components, there's nothing stopping anyone from creating a Lexis/Nexis facility, or any other type of database application.

:: That being said, it would be quite exhausting to try and create every type of infobox one might conceivably need. I'd rather try and harness the wiki open collaboration model to encourage others to help design & publish infoboxes. They should be subject to the same review stds as WP before they are release to the general public. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 14:18, 15 November 2006 (PST)

:::I agree with you in principle. I just think to get a really good headstart on populating this database with the information of "interested first adopters", they should have at least the three basic Infoboxes to choose from -- (A) For-profit corporations, (B) Non-profits, and (C) Human beings. If these are pretty well designed from the get-go, then that minimizes the likelihood of massive re-formatting by all our active members at some point down the road. If I knew how to create a Box format from scratch, I would be happy to do it, but currently I don't. Should that be my next self-improvement task?

:::For example, for "Human beings", I think it would be appropriate to have Birthplace, Birthdate, Marital status, Children, NAICS code of primary occupation, [http://www.bls.gov/soc/soc_majo.htm Standard Occupational Code], Employer, Title, Residence location (at least city, maybe street address), Copyrighted works, Skills, and Hobbies. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:14, 15 November 2006 (PST)

:::: OK, I'll try and finish up NPO & Human infoboxes this week. Armed with 3 basic std infoboxes, we'll at least have infobox style guidelines for others to adapt/expand for different applications. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:30, 16 November 2006 (PST)

==Geo Location==
Karl, as I was driving to work today, I stopped into a car wash. It then hit me that we really, really should include the latitude/longitude coordinates field in our Infoboxes, even for Persons, I suppose. The main reason is that I truly envision that eventually Centiare will fully encorporate a "Google Maps" type of application, and this will be the best way to pinpoint businesses, and of course, all of their branch/store/franchise locations. Do you agree? If so, I would like to leave it to you to modify the templates to include the "correct" lat/long labels. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 07:40, 7 December 2006 (PST)

:Done. Simply add [[Template:Mapit-US-cityscale]] to any page, along with the specified coordinates. Then, add the semantically tagged coordinates to the ''reference'' element in any infobox. See [[Directory:Centiare|Centiare]] for example.

:''Questions'':
:* For the lat/long semantic attributes, do we want decimal coordinates (as used in the template), or traditional? Right now I'm using traditional.
:* What level of granularity do we need? I used [[Directory:Huntington Beach|Huntington Beach]] for Centiare, but it only provides a general view. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:29, 7 December 2006 (PST)

::Personally, I prefer the decimal method of coordinates. I'll bet that they would work better in the triple-search tool (as one could just enter the coordinate detail as deep as they care to go -- no decimal, a tenth, a hundredth, etc.). I imagine that writing an ASK query for degrees, minutes, and seconds might be a pain in the butt, but writing ASKs for linear, numeric decimals would be a relative cinch. Positive and negative numbers are also more easy to build a query around than N, S, E, and W. Also, decimal just seems so much more "machine-friendly", and that's the whole point of semantic tagging -- get human labor out of the equation.

:::Done. Note the human readable form used for display. This technique is similar to using shorter product/service descriptions while utilizing full NAICS descriptions for semantic tags. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 11:36, 7 December 2006 (PST)

::Granularity, I'm not sure what you mean? I think each user/editor can be encouraged to get as specific as they are comfortable with. If a person doesn't want to show which house they live in, they can probably plot the specific coordinates for the center of their neighborhood, or the city hall of their postal address city. Me, I don't seem to mind pinpointing my house, and it's kind of fun drawing out those decimal coordinates to the fifth or sixth place, to try to nail it. Once you get the [[Directory:Centiare|Centiare]] page changed to decimal coordinates, I will try the Template:Mapit myself on various pages. Looking at the Template now, it seemed a bit intimidating and maybe overkill with all the external mapping options. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 11:17, 7 December 2006 (PST)

:::I wouldn't concern myself with the template itself. Just ''reference''the template from within an article with the decimal coordinates - as shown at the bottom of the [[Directory:Centiare|Centiare]] page.

== Infobox Person ==

Take a look at [[Carl Sagan]] -- there was a pretty comprehensive "Infobox Person" over at WP. I think that will do nicely for any "people" who want to be in Centiare. Another question, though -- when people want to take "ownership" of their article on Centiare, it will be just like the corporate process, right? They'll prove it's themself, and then the main space article gets cut and pasted to "their" Directory space? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 20:35, 16 November 2006 (PST)

: Yes, the process is the same. In fact, all individuals, living or dead, who have commercial value/rights, should be '''only be''' placed in the Directory namespace. That means John Wayne, Marilyn Monroe, etc (ie their images are copyrighted and their estates generate income) should be placed under Directory, while Shakespeare, Newton, et al should be placed in the Main page area.

: All living people should be under Directory since they have resumes, CVs, etc. I guess it gets tricky for US Presidents, since presumably they're not looking for another job, but OTOH Senators/Reps/Generals almost always join private sector firms in DC.

: The basic rule-of-thumb is that the Directory namespace should be used for advocacy, in the strict sense that 'ownership' rights exist for property/name/image, etc., and therefore, owners don't have to be neutral.

: There's no reason to place them first in the Main page area and subject them to open editing; again, they own their image. If an editor wants to create an entry on someone's behalf, fine. Turning over exclusive edit, or enabling group edit privileges, for the respective Directory entry, will be no different than any other entity. It's a std Centiare admin function once the ID is validated. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:34, 17 November 2006 (PST)

== Rules of Style - Titles ==

And I think we need to devise '''Rules of Style''' for:
:*Names of human beings (am I Greg Kohs, Gregory Kohs, Gregory J. Kohs, or Gregory James Kohs?)
:*Names of companies (is it International Business Machines Corporation, International Business Machines Corp., IBM Corporation, IBM Corp., or IBM?)
:*Occupational titles (the semantic search is really thrown off when someone might be "CEO", "Chairman", and/or "CEO and Chairman" (or, "Chairman and CEO"; or, "CEO & Chairman" with an ampersand))

Without establishing early and firmly some rigid and comprehensive structures that ''work well'', we're going to be facing potentially massive re-formatting in three months' time, updating the work of many, many different visitors/owners. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 13:41, 15 November 2006 (PST)

: Agreed. With regards to IBM, et al, this is a good example of the need for redirects. (It's also the reason why the info box has a "legal name" element as well eg Karl Nagel & Co. vs Karl Nagel & Co., LLC.)

:In reference to names/titles, if they don't have their own page/article or they're not captured as a data element, then I don't see the need for consistency. That is, if foo uses CEO and bar uses Pres & CEO, who cares?

:See [[Directory:IBM|IBM]] key people as an example. Now, if titles '''were''' being captured, it would be another story. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 14:05, 15 November 2006 (PST)

:: DOH! We are tracking titles. However, since they are subjective, there's no good way of enforcing consistency. From a search & reporting standpoint, one merely has to search on key_person1, 2, etc. regardless of the respective titles to get a listing of who are ''key people''. (That is, click on the mag glass & eliminate the person's name - you'll get all key_people1, 2, etc.) Again, see [[IBM]] as an example of this facility. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 14:12, 15 November 2006 (PST)

:::A "Style Guide" might merely say that, ideally, a person should be accorded one title, if possible, to optimize semantic searching. The more that users stick to this guideline, the more likely their data will be "found" by people using Centiare's search utility. Furthermore, if in doubt about the "preferred" ranking of assigning titles (and what words and acronyms to use), the following list could/should be used to make uniform the many differences that appear in the working world:
::::* '''Chair''' (as opposed to Chairperson, Chairman, Chairwoman, etc.)
::::* '''CEO''' (as replacement for Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director, President, etc.)
::::* '''CFO''' (as opposed to Chief Financial Officer, Controller, etc.)
::::* '''COO''' (as replacement for Chief Operations Officer, Senior Operations Manager, etc.)
::::* '''CIO''' (as opposed to Chief Information Officer, Senior Technologist, MIS Director, etc.)
::::* '''SVP''' (as opposed to Senior Vice President, Executive Vice President, Regional Director, etc.)
::::* '''VP''' (as replacement for Vice President, Senior Manager, etc.)
::::* '''Manager''' (general middle-management catch-all title)
:::Adherence to such a "Style Guide" should by no means be considered mandatory, nor a perjorative assessment of any person's "actual" title at their company. It is merely a mechanism to make semantic searching more productive for more Centiare users. If only 3 companies call their CIO the "Data Ninja", that's really cute, but not very useful to Centiare users who are looking for "CIO" types of personnel in the Denver area. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:33, 15 November 2006 (PST)

:::: Would you like to create the Title style guide? --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:30, 16 November 2006 (PST)

:::::It would be my pleasure to do so. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 11:02, 16 November 2006 (PST)

== Corporate logos ==

I tried to upload the IBM corporate logo (copied from Wikipedia -- let them sort out the copyright issues), but the Centiare server said that .PNG was an invalid format. Do you have any comments about how/whether/why/what we should do about corporate logos and other images? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 13:49, 15 November 2006 (PST)

: My hosting guru is working on it as we speak. It should be fixed by tomorrow, then we can start uploading different files (jpg, pdf, doc, xls, ppt). This is one of the open issues I mentioned last week. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 14:09, 15 November 2006 (PST)

== NAICS 2 and 3 ==

Karl, what about [[Portal:Information]] and the fact that "IBM" doesn't show up in the Sector Listings, because IBM lists a "51xxx" NAICS code as a secondary code, not primary? Don't you think users will want to be able to see all companies that match to a NAICS, even if secondary or tertiary code? (Personally, I think three NAICS code levels should be enough, but who's to say that we should stop there?) Anyway, I tried to revise the "ASK" code, but failed. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 19:47, 16 November 2006 (PST)

: Good catch. I tried to run a quickie report including both naics1 & 2, but it only seems to work on naics1 OR 2 OR 3... (I left it at 2). The documentation for ASK is located [http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Help:Inline_queries here]. I'll have to read through it again, a little closer this time, but I'm pretty sure it should be able to generate the reports we need. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 21:11, 16 November 2006 (PST)

= Questions & Problems =

==Infobox==
Take a look at the editing code on [[Directory:Gregory_J._Kohs]]. Why is the "residence" field info not rendering in the infobox? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 06:29, 3 December 2006 (PST)

:Thanks for making the changes to the infobox. I guess it demanded a semantic tag? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 04:44, 4 December 2006 (PST)

::Actually, a lot more fundamental than that: while the existing infobox_person had a reference to 'residence' in the definition list, it didn't have a 'residence' variable within the actual template itself - simply an oversight from the original author. I just had to add a residence variable, along with contact/reference variables for the semantic tags. The template itself is the first place one should look if Directory pages aren't rendering properly. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:16, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:::This is a reflection on my continued inadequate understanding of the details of constructing and checking on Infoboxes in their original code. I'm going to really have to spend some time learning more. Either that, or just give up the technical stuff to the experts and start working on promotion/marketing . . . more in my skill set. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:32, 4 December 2006 (PST)

::::I'm a big believer in specialization. I think you now have a good understanding of how things work. Rather than take the extra step & become proficient at development, it might be a better use of your time to focus on marketing/sales.

::::I was reviewing your [[Centiare:Tutorial|Tutorial]] entries and they look very informative. This is the type of walk-through guideline style we will need to (verbally) explain the working mechanics of the site. Combined with the ability to articulate the business rationale & (world-wide) info distribution opportunities, you'll be a great evangelist. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:53, 4 December 2006 (PST)

It's going to be easier to see when you've made a comment to me if you direct them to [[User_talk:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz talk page]], rather than the one at Directory_talk:Gregory J. Kohs. I'm always signed in under the MyWikiBiz account, so that will signal me when I have new messages. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 18:19, 3 December 2006 (PST)

:My mistake. I commented to your gallery experiment, and then kept posting there instead of to your user a/c. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:16, 4 December 2006 (PST)

==ASK==
Why doesn't Carl Sagan appear in the ASK Sector Listings part of [[Portal:Educational_Services]]? I'm confused. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 18:39, 3 December 2006 (PST)

:It might be helpful to take an extra moment to see if you can resolve some of these questions first eg template-residence, ASK-person, et al. ASK was searching on company_name instead of person_*_name, as well as city instead of birth_city, etc. The key to most problems is in the details - this is true not only of semantic tags, but templating. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:46, 4 December 2006 (PST)

::Again, my ignorance of the detailed architecture gives way to "run crying to Karl" when confused. I will try to get more accustomed to these devilish details. My query, though, does bring us to an interesting point -- do you think that our NAICS Portal ASK framework should be expanded to include things like People? And (ignorance again), is such multi-referencing possible within ASK? (I'll predict that the answer is "yes".) --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:32, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:::Hehe. Of course - if we use NAICS as occupational categories, then resumes, artist/actor listings, etc all become suitable search criteria within the Portals. There's a reason Tim Berners-Lee & other top thinkers know that semantic tagging is the future. Once a piece of data is captured and is machine readable to a specified level of granularity, you can do '''anything''' you want with the info.

:::Btw, remember that ASK can be run from anywhere, so users aren't limited to searching on NAICS categories. (Though that is the preference with Portals.) For example, someone could easily run an ASK query for all deaths on [[December/20|December 20]]. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:59, 4 December 2006 (PST)

==Special Pages==

===Longpages===
Is there any way to get the links on [[Special:Specialpages]] to include Directory space pages in their results? --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 04:44, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:[[Special:Allpages|Allpages]]. Just select Directory from the list. This is also a good place to search for images, templates, etc. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:16, 4 December 2006 (PST)

::I think here you may have misunderstood me, Karl. [[Special:Allpages|Allpages]] isn't what I desire. What I'd like to do (as an example) is look at [[Special:Longpages]], but be able to see lengthy Directory pages in the results. If you look at [[Special:Newpages]], you see that when you get the mainspace results, you have the option of then looking at different spaces, including Directory. Would be still even better if you could search ALL space for long pages. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 08:32, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:::Got it. Both newpages & longpages are standalone .php modules. I can create a new extension by adding the optional search component in newpages to a Centiare version of longpages and then tie it back into the Special pages summary view. Another thing for my todo list. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:21, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:::'''Update''' Took the lazy approach - just hacked [[Special:Longpages]] so that it reports Directory listings as well. If the list ever gets unwieldy, I can add the newpages selection box. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 12:24, 4 December 2006 (PST)

===LinkSearch===
Another great module that Wikipedia has that Centiare apparently has not yet loaded is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Linksearch "Search web links"], which allows you to do a global search of the Wikipedia architecture for ALL outbound hyperlinks, based on a domain-level query. That's how we discover that Wikipedia has about 3,000 outbound links to Wikia.com. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:59, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:It appears Special:Linksearch is not part of the most recent MW distribution. I could whip up something similar if you really need it, or we could wait until it shows up in the next release. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 11:29, 4 December 2006 (PST)

==List of preferred/approved semantic tags==
Once we have finalized the four or five "root" infoboxes, would it make some sense to have a Tutorial page for users to see a master list of all the "Centiare-approved" semantic labels? I want to make sure that users are not confused and quickly realize the big mistake it would be to erroneously tag their infobox with "'''Key People1:='''", when it should be "'''Key_Person1:='''". Users are, of course, free to make up their own tags, but they should be aware of the correct spelling and typographical construct of the best tags. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 10:52, 6 December 2006 (PST)

:Good idea. Both Tutorial & Help pages will expand as we add more information. Feel free to set up the initial infobox overview/list/policy. We can build from there. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:57, 6 December 2006 (PST)

== Clarifying ==

For starters, I've been so busy as an advertising copywriter since my internship there, that I hadn't bothered to change the bio.

What I was contacting you about, which you seem to have ignored in your message, is that you cannot copy Wikipedia articles, even just passages of Wikipedia articles, without acknowledging them as being under the GFDL-license.

Wikipedia articles are of course collaborated on by multiple, often hundreds of people each. Each person owns the copyright to whatever new content they add, whether it's a new paragraph, or just a punctuation mark. It's odd, but that's how it works. But anyway, it's all released under a free license, but one that ''needs'' to be acknowledged.

Articles on your site like [[Latitude]], [[Longitude]]. [[Portable Document Format]], [[Directory:Wikimedia Foundation]], [[Directory:The Walt Disney Company/Mickey Mouse]], [[Directory:Carl Sagan]], etc are all under this license.

You can use the map images, as they were created by the CIA, and thus are public domain. You should also credit the creators of images [[:Image:Gentlemen Prefer Blondes Movie Trailer Screenshot (16).jpg|like this]], which are under copyright by multi-national corporations. -- [[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] 07:09, 8 December 2006 (PST)

User talk:Karl Nagel

2006-12-07T20:31:21Z

Zanimum: Who runs this site?

Karl Nagel

== Who runs this site? ==

You might want to suggest to them to delete all Wikipedia content from the site. Wikipedia's content is created under a GFDL license, thus, they can't claim copyright over it, as they do now. -- [[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] 12:31, 7 December 2006 (PST)

User talk:MyWikiBiz

2006-12-07T20:30:43Z

Zanimum: Whom runs this site?

==Old comment==

Looks like you've successfully ported over an infobox for Mr. Sagan. If you figure out the ASK parser to handle subqueries, you're going to soon become armed and dangerous. PS Hopefully, we'll have file upload working tomorrow to start building out graphics. I'm really interested in uploading Adobe/MS Office type docs - it could become invaluable for catalog info, ad runs, coupons, presentations, etc. --[[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 21:18, 16 November 2006 (PST)

==BTW==

I've been posting comments under your [[Directory_talk:Gregory J. Kohs]] listing. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:52, 3 December 2006 (PST)

:I've moved those comments here. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 18:42, 3 December 2006 (PST)

::Your Directory listing looks good. You might want to double check some of your data elements - it looks like you have some company type attributes. People have add'l info tags eg birth city along with city (residence), person_first_name instead of person_name, etc. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:53, 4 December 2006 (PST)

==Copy from Gregory J. Kohs discussion==

The residence link in the infobox_person was missing - the template wasn't as well constructed as infobox_company. I went through the template and tuned it up + made a few modifications. Let me know what you think.

If you'd like, feel free to create new attributes for birth_date, birth_place, death_death and death_place. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:32, 3 December 2006 (PST)

: I ended up creating these attributes for [[Directory:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]]. Feel free to update your site using the respective attributes.

: Note: the first birthday/deathday reference includes month/day -> we want that reference style so that days are sub-pages of months (for almanac reports eg births, deaths, etc). However, to search specific attributes, month & day have to be treated separately. That's why the last category 'reference' is used as a placeholder to record specific values. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 12:30, 3 December 2006 (PST)

:: We will probably have to discuss this "month/day" format, or I will have to spend some time thinking about it. I just don't understand it yet; but as a layman, it just seems awfully odd when we get these pages like "December/20". But, you're saying that the Wikipedia method of "December_20" would not work well within semantic search? I guess I get it -- people may want to search for either December, or December 20, but if the label is "December_20", that won't work for the "just any December" searches. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 18:47, 3 December 2006 (PST)

:::Exactly. December_20 & December/20 aren't really that different from a straight text reference perspective. Actually, I think Centiare's method is better, since day dates are natural sub-pages of months. Either way, once a reader is on the Dec 20 page, ASK can run queries on that specific date eg births, deaths, etc. That is, as long as the semantic tags record the '''individual data elements''' as to month, day & year. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:57, 4 December 2006 (PST)

==Edit notes==

You'll notice that the {{flagicon|US}} is placed after locations in infobox_person (instead of before as in _company). That's because birth location is below birth date - the flag looked weird hanging out in the open. Play around with the placement if you'd like. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 08:39, 3 December 2006 (PST)

==Legal notes==

Note that persons within Directory listings using infobox_person should provide contact & reference information. That because even if they're dead, by definition, if they're within the Directory namespace, that means they have commercial value; ergo there should be contact info + reference information.

For example, [[Directory:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] has a link to his estate that generates licensing revenue from his name/works/image. OTOH, Newton is public domain, so he shouldn't be listed under Directory - rather, he should be included within Main page articles.

I guess we (interested?) could create another infobox_person for Main page entries - ie no longer any commercial rights. There's a lot of stuff in infobox_person that could be cleaned up/removed to create a new version for non-commercial public figures. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 12:30, 3 December 2006 (PST)

==Occupational Codes==

Should we use NAICS as occupational codes or go full bore and incorporate official occ codes? I think I already know the answer you're going to give me. If that's the case, should Portals be NAICS or a level above that branch to NAICS & OCC?

Off the cuff, I'd rather just add a link to ''Individuals'' (ie occ codes) from the main portal entry - sort of like a special sub-portal. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:29, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:Just moved this section to the bottom. That's the wiki "policy" -- new threads always go to the bottom of Discussion pages.
:Assuuming that by OCC, you mean the Census [http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/ioindex/cens_001_043.html classified index of occupations]? Or, perhaps you mean the BLS's [http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/ioindex/soc_11.html Standard Occupational Codes]? Either way, if you look at those links, I don't see any granularity between a Board Chairman, a CEO, a CFO, a CIO, or a Railroad Commissioner, for that matter.

:If I'm understanding you correctly, then I would agree that a link to ''Individuals'' (with the wide array of different occupational codes, so that we can accomodate a [http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/ioindex/cens_300_354.html chiropractor], we can. However, wouldn't the chiropractor more simply just align himself (sorry for the pun) with the appropriate NAICS code of 62131? I'm unsure at this time, but currently I'm dubious of Centiare encouraging individuals to identify themselves more by their occupational role than by the NAICS Industry they serve. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 09:51, 4 December 2006 (PST)

::Greg, these are the types of answers I like. KISS would suggest using NAICS, but OTOH, one doesn't want to take shortcuts that miss picking up crucial data. (That is, if OCC added add'l granularity; but, as your example points out, NAICS really does define what an entity does, whether it's a company or individual.)

::If we stick with NAICS, then not only do the Portals remain as they are, but ASK queries can then produce listings based on either person_names and/or company_names. Even better, since I know you're wondering, we could search for people within companies. Like I've said before, the sky really is the limit once individual data elements are captured. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 10:00, 4 December 2006 (PST)

==Infobox Proliferation==

I was experimenting with infobox_actor for [[Directory:Marilyn Monroe|Marilyn Monroe]] when I realized that these types of individual infoboxes are all just derivative templates from the primary infobox_person. That is, they shared 90% of the same info such as birthday, occupation, etc. with the only differences being that actor had some data elements for movies, etc.

However, there is a '''BIG''' problem at WP as far as consistency that we really want to avoid. To be more specific, infobox_person uses birth_date, while actor was birthday. Not only is this bad for templates, but it's really compounded with semantic tags.

The solution is to create a ''very firm'' policy covering 4 or so primary infoboxes that should always be used as baselines: company, NPO, person & government. Actors could then use a specialty infobox_actor to cover items specific to that biz (IMDB could provide a good data schema), while churches could have their own in addition to the std NPO.

Let me know what you think. Check out [[Directory:Marilyn Monroe|Marilyn Monroe]] for a good example. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 13:56, 4 December 2006 (PST)

:'''Update''' What I'm really describing are ''''occupational'''' infoboxes e.g. actor, author, artist, musician, professor, etc. It should be pretty straightforward to link these infoboxes to the occupational data element within the main infobox_person.

:Ditto for industry infoboxes e.g. churches can have a an infobox for their particular NAICS code which links off the primary NPO infobox. Likewise for commercial enterprises within infobox_company, and government types (city, country, district, state, etc) from the primary infobox_govt. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 15:03, 4 December 2006 (PST)

::Just so I understand, would this mean that a person would always have an Infobox_Person, but if they also want to indicate they're an actor, they would have an ADDITIONAL Infobox_Actor on the page with just information that's useful for actors (and for which the community could establish guidelines)? Since you can build multiple infoboxes on one page, like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Prodigenous_Zee/Run_to_the_Hills_infobox&action=edit this song page], I think that we have the best policy in saying that company, NPO, person, and government are fixed and approved Infoboxes, while anything else should be "addenda" to the fundamental boxes. --[[User:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] 06:59, 6 December 2006 (PST)

:::Yes, we lock in company, NPO, gov't, person, and ''property'' with std infoboxes. [I guess we now have person (entity/individual), place & thing.] All other infoboxes will be considered supplemental. Your song example should have a property infobox, then a song infobox.

:::'''Sidenote''': if a song is in the public domain (eg Oh Sussana), then it it would be (a) placed in the Main space, (b) NOT have an infobox_property, (c) BUT have an infobox_song.

:::This type of organization will lend itself very well to further granularization for all types of listings eg actors, authors, recording artists, business groupings, etc, etc. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 07:20, 6 December 2006 (PST)

==Namespace policy==

I put together a brief policy guideline covering when to use either the Directory or Main page namespaces. Please check it out [[Centiare:Tutorial|here]] and let me know what you think. [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 09:22, 5 December 2006 (PST)

:Updated per your comments regarding property (intellectual/real). [[User:Centiare|Centiare]] 11:50, 5 December 2006 (PST)

== Whom runs this site? ==

You might want to suggest to them to delete all Wikipedia content from the site. Wikipedia's content is created under a GFDL license, thus, they can't claim copyright over it, as they do now. -- [[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] 12:30, 7 December 2006 (PST)