User:Badmachine/wikipedia-en-2013-06-02

MyWikiBiz, Author Your Legacy — Tuesday May 17, 2022
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--- Log opened Sun Jun 02 00:00:55 2013
00:02 -!- zz_YuviPanda is now known as YuviPanda
00:03 < tommorris> dtm_: do you have the OTRS ticket ID?
00:04 < tommorris> I'm happy to look at it and give my "is that stupid or wot?" determination
00:05 < dtm_> tommorris: thank you sir.  and i'd like to learn how to join in with this system myself.  standby.
00:06 < tommorris> oh, that's easy
00:06 -!- Pine [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Pine] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]]
00:06 < tommorris> you go to Meta, you make an application and one of the secretive OTRS cabal will decide whether you should have access.
00:08 < dtm_> oh, it's a club?  festive!
00:09 < dtm_> tommorris: are you in the club?  Ticket#2013060110000864
00:11 < tommorris> also, photographers can transfer copyright to subjects.
00:12 < dtm_> no kiddin.  unless, of course, they never had the friggin copyright to begin with.
00:12 -!- Guest95958 is now known as Pote
00:12 < dtm_> like for example, every work for hire ever done
00:12 < dtm_> for example, most photographs
00:13 < tommorris> that does seem needlessly unreasonable
00:13 < dtm_> tommorris: but you know what i'm saying, right?  the entire premise is literally illogical.  in an unchallenged copyright assertion, it is literally impossible to presume that one person 1) exists and 2) holds copyright but another doesn't.
00:13 < tommorris> the OTRS response that is
00:13 < dtm_> yes
00:14 < dtm_> it's ultra-legalistic nonsense
00:14 < dtm_> this isn't a social security application.
00:14 < dtm_> where their job is to deny.
00:14 < tommorris> dtm_: certainly.
00:15 < tommorris> I'm not sure what the internal OTRS process is for "I think someone else has fucked up, how do we deal with that"
00:15 < tommorris> is there a discussion on-wiki about this image?
00:15 < dtm_> now if we had a copyright challenge, then we could have a conversation.  this is not even a conversation.
00:15 < dtm_> no!
00:15 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
00:15 < dtm_> this is "hi....  i found the 'deny' button.  here ya go."
00:15 < dtm_> ^_^
00:16 -!- Mr-ex777 [~chatzilla@cm218-253-17-171.hkcable.com.hk] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:16 < tommorris> dtm_: oh no. custom response. they had to sit down and write it. ;)
00:16 < dtm_> this whole situation of publishing this article has required me to escalate perfectly legitimate, self-evidenced, unchallengeable content like it's an act of congress
00:16 < tommorris> if you wanted to just send a Please Fuck Off, there are plenty to choose from without writing your own.
00:16 < dtm_> yeah but they deleted the image from the commons, dawg
00:17 < dtm_> so.  they need to not do that ;)
00:17 < tommorris> right, just having a look at how to fix that
00:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> congress can act? news to me :p
00:18 < dtm_> tommorris: i'm literally saying that i've written a case where this shit should be escalated to the Jimbo as being the poster child of institutional abuse toward new content, particularly toward autobiographies or new users
00:18 < dtm_> it's like barratry
00:18 < dtm_> using the system as a weapon
00:19 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: ho ho
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00:19 < tommorris> dtm_: elevanting to Jimbo seems a bit hasty. a quiet email to the OTRS respondent telling him that he's been a bit overeager should do the job.
00:19 < tommorris> I've had similar emails in the past. it's the way OTRSers learn.
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00:20 < dtm_> yeah i know, i'm just sayin that this is one of the worst problems that wikipedia faces ultimately, because it's an issue of institutional education
00:20 < tommorris> same with admins: you learn on the job by people telling you "that's a bit silly"
00:20 < dtm_> i'm perfectly great with educating these people.  i'm just not cool with the fact that they should know this before acting, and they're driving off legitimate new content in droves
00:21 < dtm_> maybe it's one mistake per person, but you might be talkin about losing a thousand articles and photos a year.
00:21 < dtm_> a thousand editors a year.
00:21 < dtm_> gone.  categorically rejected.
00:21 < dtm_> this guy is an extraordinarily highly notable subject, too
00:22 < dtm_> i've become his personal hero for literally nothing more than just clicking a few buttons that someone else gave him maximal bullcrap about
00:22 < dtm_> of course, in the process, i spiffed everything up too, but i had to make it practically a court case for no good reason
00:22 < tommorris> I just need to find a Commons admin and nudge them into undeleting.
00:23 < dtm_> tommorris: thanks a lot.  i want into the cabal.
00:23 < dtm_> but of course we don't talk about the cabal.
00:23 < tommorris> dtm_: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OTRS/volunteering is that way. ;)
00:23 < dtm_> at the risk of fluffing my {{peacock}}, i would say that my content creation history speaks for itself
00:24 < dtm_> pretend that i didn't just say that, or whatever.
00:25 < tommorris> content creation isn't the only thing that is important for OTRS: in fact, far more important is being calm, reasonable, friendly to newbs and knowledgable on policy
00:25 < dtm_> i hear that
00:25 < dtm_> i loves me some noobs.
00:26 < dtm_> that's exactly why i'm on this particular case.  i met the guy in #wikipedia-en-help like a newborn fawn.  a wobbly-legged calf who could singlehandedly write completely authoritatively referenced and notable content.
00:27 < tommorris> Lovely when you meet them. I don't have the patience for -en-help, alas.
00:28 < dtm_> it's tough stuff sometimes
00:28 < dtm_> i haven't been in there forever
00:28 < dtm_> you know, it's interesting coz it turns out that i took to supporting the supporters in -en-helpers lol
00:28 < dtm_> call me a caretaker, yo <3
00:29 < dtm_> but yeah i've met *amazing* people in -en-help
00:29 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:29 < dtm_> indeed, i've met the fabled archetypal quasi-clueless self-promoting entrepreneur there.  i told him "get more notable", and he took his lessons and went home!
00:30 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-098-027-034-197.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:30 < dtm_> he was great about it, and respected wikipedia as a benchmark for success
00:30 -!- Ks0stm [~Ks0stm@wikipedia/Ks0stm] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:30 < dtm_> we should all live lives worthy of wikipedia
00:30 < dtm_> oh crap it's Ks0stm. where you been, son?
00:30 < SigmaWP> the middle of nowhere
00:31 < dtm_> where the internets dont reach, apparently
00:31 < tommorris> dtm_: I'm not sure about that. I quite like being non-notable. notability doesn't pay the bills.
00:31 < dtm_> Ks0stm: have the tornados bit ya?  :(
00:31 < dtm_> tommorris: well at least you're notably supporting notability
00:31 < dtm_> tommorris: perhaps you're meta-notable
00:33 < tommorris> dtm_: I was having a discussion with someone about being a "true Londoner" the other day. we were in Soho at the time, and their argument for being a true Londoner is that you know your way around Soho's side streets.
00:33 < tommorris> my response: I literally drew the map of Soho. ;) OpenStreetMap.
00:33 < dtm_> tommorris: whoa.
00:34 < dtm_> tommorris: well done
00:34 < tommorris> of course, I'm not sure why Soho is considered a mark of being a true Londoner. it may be the mark of being a true Londoner who likes gay bars, prostitutes and sleazy sex shops, but that's a separate issue.
00:35 < dtm_> tommorris: so i'm sorry, did you say that you had already submitted the request for undeletion?  on the grounds that there was a legitimate and unchallenged copyright assertion?
00:35 < dtm_> tommorris: oic
00:35 < tommorris> dtm_: I'm just emailing a Commons admin I know.
00:35 < dtm_> ok
00:35 < dtm_> seriously this is a systemic issue that means we're losing content and people
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00:36 < dtm_> whacking them with sticks
00:36 < tommorris> dtm_: finding Commons admins on IRC is damn near impossible.
00:38 < dtm_> tommorris: the whole issue with his autobiography is well documented too.  AfC literally denied a fully notable, fully sourced, well-written, full-bodied, C-class article on the *sole* grounds that it was an autobiography.  based only upon who wrote it.  this is a form of prejudice against a form of expertise.
00:39 < tommorris> oh bollocks. the Commons admin I chose isn't available. when I see one later on today, I'll nudge them about it
00:39 < dtm_> they went round and round with him, on his Talk page, where he was just politely requesting that they prove any violation of any policy.  notability, references, writing quality, etc
00:39 < dtm_> and people just repeatedly disregarded and restated, like a broken record
00:39 < dtm_> sure it was just Some Volunteer, but it's a systemic problem which has a pile of articles written about it.
00:39 < dtm_> it could be fixed
00:40 < dtm_> on an institutional level
00:40 < dtm_> i mean largely improved.
00:40 < tommorris> the problem is we have an enormous amount of workload and not enough people to do it.
00:40 < BlastHardcheese> articles just get in the way of the fun stuff like blocking and flamewars
00:40 < dtm_> i dont even know who to talk to or what to do, because literally the whole organization is opaque
00:40 < dtm_> tommorris: see yes but you just restated the endemic problem in other words, from the other side of the tablet
00:40 < dtm_> table
00:40 < dtm_> tommorris: this problem is endemic to any organization that's busy, and too busy to get help
00:41 < mareklug_> dtm_ I am about to give up on SheepShamer….  it will not let me use 9.2.2 and it crashes all the time, and I can't get it to see my network (funnily enough, my network sees *it*)….  maybe I will have more energy tomorrow.  For now I am torrenting from The Pirate's Bay no less Classic-ON-Intler_(OS9_for_INtel_Macs) which is alegedly better at all this.
00:41 < dtm_> mareklug_: dang.
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00:42 < dtm_> mareklug_: classic?  wat.  what is this
00:42 < mareklug_> there is one seed and one leacher and Frostwire is actually moving bytes.  Comcast is not yet knocking down my door, so....
00:42 < mareklug_> classic is the uneducated way to refer to MacOS 9
00:42 < dtm_> mareklug_: what does it mean in this case
00:43 < mareklug_> it is really the Mac OS X 10.0 through 10.4.11 environment for running 9.2.2
00:43 < dtm_> mareklug_: and it runs on 10.8?
00:43 -!- southpark [~chatzilla@e179046015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:43 < tommorris> dtm_: and it turns out the OTRS respondent... is a Commons admin.
00:43 < mareklug_> well, it means roughly what the SheepShitter means:  It is supposed ot install with a simple click and let me run Mac OS 9 stuff on it.
00:43 < dtm_> tommorris: nice.
00:44 < mareklug_> apparently it does.
00:44 < dtm_> mareklug_: but it's literally Classic?
00:44 < mareklug_> we shall see.
00:44 < dtm_> i mean you said it's the uneducated way .. so that means no
00:44 < mareklug_> it may be pirated Mac OS 9 complete with the ROM from a Mac, who knows....
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00:45 < dtm_> tommorris: well, i can reply.
00:46 < dtm_> tommorris: i'd just like to see if you get what i'm saying, about this phenomenon where as you say, an organization is busy and under-resourced, but as I've seen on the other side of the table, it's actively serving to reject help
00:46 < dtm_> a problem which is endemic to volunteer organizations, especially successful ones.  victims of their own success.
00:47 < dtm_> which is to be expected
00:47 < dtm_> and assumed
00:47 < mareklug_> dtm already got 5% of the thing, but at speed oscilating at 1 KB/s, my Fast Ethernet IIci Asante card looks like a race car. :)
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00:47 < dtm_> mareklug_: lol
00:47 < dtm_> mareklug_: and it *is* one, man.  <voice type="Lucas">it's so bad.
00:48 < dtm_> don't stop believin'
00:49 < mareklug_> once I get a better tool for downloading on system 7.5.5 then the silly old Fetch 2.12, it should show its true colors, esp if I use some of that 128 MB maxed out RAM for RAM disk.
00:49 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:49 < dtm_> mareklug_: :-o
00:49 < dtm_> mareklug_: SpeedDoubler?
00:49 < dtm_> u gawt dat?
00:50 < mareklug_> i had ram doubler, i did not play with speed doubler.  is that a soft thing?
00:50 < dtm_> a what?
00:51 < dtm_> a soft*ware* thing?  theyre made by the... *ahem*... they... *were* made by Connectix.
00:51 < dtm_> same vendor
00:51 < mareklug_> i'm also on a hunt for a fabulous beast known in mythical circles as DayStar 601 Turbo PPC 100MHz accelerator for NuBus….   that would increase the speed of the processing 11-fold.
00:51 < BlastHardcheese> don't forget to download more ram
00:51 < dtm_> whoa.
00:51 < dtm_> BlastHardcheese: 100% ram compression tech
00:51 < mareklug_> BlastHardcheese I have done it and it is sitting pretty in the machine
00:52 < dtm_> mareklug_: if you dont put A/UX on this thing, i will whack you with a ruler
00:52 < tommorris> dtm_: just emailed the Commons admin who answered the OTRS email.
00:52 < mareklug_> why A/UX?  nothing of note runs on it.
00:52 < dtm_> tommorris: kthx
00:52 < dtm_> mareklug_: nothing of note runs on your machine at all
00:52 < dtm_> A/UX *is* notable!
00:52 < dtm_> ^_^
00:53 < mareklug_> it would make more sense to put on a separate disk Mk68Linux
00:53 < dtm_> sense.  yeah.  fsvo 'sense'.
00:53 < dtm_> you have an FPU?
00:53 < mareklug_> the Turbo will.
00:54 < dtm_> i had m68klinux on my uhhhh   the DOS hybrid.  with a 68LC040.  so it crashed a lot.
00:54 < mareklug_> wow, estimated time has dropped from inifnity, then 10 hours, to 1:45
00:54 -!- p858snake|l [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has joined #wikipedia-en
00:54 < dtm_> mareklug_: yeah great, so you'll run linux on a random custom hybrid architecture huh ;)
00:56 < mareklug_> dtm_ the rock steady showcase of my stable of museal computing is the Debian 6.0.6, the very same that the International Space Station opted for, running on the souped up 1998 Wallstreet II PDQ 300MHZ PPC 750 machine in 512 MB of ram, boot-strapped from MacOS 9.2.2 via BootX extension written by some very clever German dude.
00:56 < mareklug_> for booting Linux on Old World Macs.
00:56 < dtm_> yeah.  not on random custom hybrid architecture quasi-Macs ;)
00:57 < mareklug_> it is absolutely rock steady.
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00:57 < dtm_> i bet.
00:57 < mareklug_> and they say linux was not meant for macs.
00:57 < dtm_> i heard that a lot.  but then people would crowd around my Wallstreet II at the SVLUG meetings
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00:59 < dtm_> in 1999
00:59 < mareklug_> dtm_ and in general, the amount of computing I am able to inflict with old Macs is just jawdropping.  And to think that this somewhat dated early 2009 24" iMac is the power center of my LAN, allowing me all kinds of Virtualbox shenanigans (XP pro, 7, 9. haiku, 6 different linuxes)
01:00 < dtm_> 'inflict' is truly the appropriate word for your activities
01:00 < dtm_> respect++
01:00 < mareklug_> well, if I did not have all this legit licensed Adobe soft for System 7 and 9, I would not be so gungho.
01:01 < mareklug_> it's such a shame to let it go to disuse.
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01:01 < dtm_> mareklug_: i researched that Wallstreet II exhaustively for its ability to run all the OSes, and i didn't get around to all of em.  Rhapsody (i had DR2 and DR4), linuxppc R4 (mine was the machine on which the ppc binutils were fixed, so that LinuxPPC R5 coudl be released), and i dont know what else.
01:01 -!- LtNOWIS [~Simon@pool-173-66-20-178.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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01:02 < dtm_> mareklug_: have you looked up whether or not you could have spent all that money on software license upgrades instead of obsolete hardware upgrades?
01:02 < dtm_> by the way
01:02 < mareklug_> no, there is no inexpensive path to upgrade the software.  Adobe is completely thieving on that front.
01:03 < dtm_> i bought Final Cut Pro 2, so that i could get the cheaper upgrade license for the current one.  but i dont know Adobe's policies.
01:03 < dtm_> (current at the time, which was 7)
01:03 < Theopolisme> Creative Cloud ftw
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01:03 < mareklug_> even something as comparatively modern as the CS4 Suite is worthless in any upgrade to CS6.
01:03 < dtm_> mareklug_: okay so i guess you can make your own upgrade path.
01:03 < dtm_> obviously you have the means of acquisition.
01:03 < dtm_> TO GO ROGUE
01:04 < mareklug_> dtm frugal computing dictates tinkering with hardware in order to run the perfectly adequate old soft.
01:04 < mareklug_> or emulation
01:04 < dtm_> you're breaking/bending softawre licenses in order to do so
01:04 < dtm_> so i guess hey whatever works ;)
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01:05 < mareklug_> no, not at all. the llicense gives me the ability to run the soft on any CPU, provided it is the sole CPU that does it.
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01:05 < dtm_> you're accidentally saying "soft" for some reason fyi
01:05 < mareklug_> as there is only one of me running any of it, I can satisfy that criterion. :)
01:05 < dtm_> you *need* to know how extraordinarily weird that is, and i'm here to inform u
01:06 < mareklug_> software
01:06 -!- Ks0stm [~Ks0stm@wikipedia/Ks0stm] has joined #wikipedia-en
01:06 < dtm_> of all things weird
01:06 < dtm_> i'm your personal informant
01:06 < dtm_> Ks0stm: hi
01:06 < mareklug_> soft is a diminutive for software, just like Annie for Ann
01:06 < dtm_> no it's not.  ^_^
01:06 < mareklug_> or Gretch for Gretchen
01:06 < dtm_> it's just a butchered word.
01:06 < dtm_> so.
01:07 < dtm_> i was just helpfully pointing that out
01:07 < mareklug_> dtm_ you're being, erm, …rigid about this.
01:07 < mareklug_> this idiosyncracy of mine.
01:07 < dtm_> <3
01:07 < dtm_> mareklug_: i'm not saying that it's insurmountable.  I'M NOT!
01:07 < dtm_> i'm just saying.  that.  it needs to be known.
01:07 < mareklug_> it's not like Lady Björk has the sole license on charming mangling of the English tongue.
01:08 < dtm_> this is a milieu of tolerance and friendship
01:08 < dtm_> and of pointing out weird-ass crap
01:08 < dtm_> and whatnot
01:08 < dtm_> mareklug_: you're absolutely right.  i need more Bjork in my life.
01:08 < dtm_> i can't make the dots.
01:08 < dtm_> on the keyboard.
01:09 < dtm_> i gotta copy and paste your Björk
01:09 < mareklug_> Björk.   the ö makes it rhyme with "jerk", she says
01:09 < dtm_> no kiddin?
01:09 < mareklug_> dtm surely you have access to diacriticals?  for me it is so easy -- mac comes with U.S. Extended (UTF-8) that has them conveniently Option-ed all over the keyboard.
01:10 < dtm_> the only one i've ever done is ñ
01:10 < dtm_> closedapple-n
01:10 < dtm_> ;)
01:11 < mareklug_> wow, 2 seeds and 2 leachers… and up to 23% done on thei 50 meg download.  we are trucking at sub-V.92 speeds...
01:11 < dtm_> cool.
01:11 < mareklug_> you're not on a mac now?
01:12 < dtm_> see i'm exhibiting maximal tolerance and friendship right here, talking complicitly about total and wanton copyright violations, in a wikipedia channel
01:12 < dtm_> mareklug_: hm.  are you thikning i have a closeapple key on some other system?
01:12 < mareklug_> but it is not.  I have licenses for all the OSes I am running that require them, and some in triplicate.
01:13 < mareklug_> dtm why are you not using U.S. Extended keyboard layout then?
01:13 < dtm_> you're correctly violating the wrongheaded copyright law by the means of acquisition
01:14 < dtm_> in a most valiant act of civil disobedience
01:14 < mareklug_> you mean the very TPB download?
01:14 < dtm_> this.... is your salt march, mareklug_
01:14 < dtm_> yeah.
01:14 < mareklug_> but we don't know yet if it is a violation.  I have to investigate it.
01:14 < dtm_> gooooo the disssstance
01:15 < dtm_> no, it's a violation.  you're even uploading it, since it's a torrent.
01:15 < dtm_> the law is nonsensical and unenforceable, and thus deserves to be actively challenged
01:15 < mareklug_> dtm_ incidentally, I am like totally leaching, and not providing any of this loot upstream.  So if anything, I am a bad apple among the gray element.
01:16 < dtm_> not to mention that the software's forced obsolescence coerces you
01:16 < dtm_> mareklug_: hah!  intent!
01:16 < mareklug_> no, I consciously availed myself of that setting in Frostwire.
01:16 < dtm_> oh ok.
01:17 < dtm_> well i meant to ask that, but the way i said it, sounded cooler
01:17 < dtm_> and more succinct
01:17 < dtm_> intent.
01:18 < mareklug_> you know what we really miss in Chicago?  Genuine Maroccan couscus, none of that fine grained semolina stuff peddled by Near East for 2.50 a box.
01:18 < dtm_> wow.
01:18 < dtm_> you're in chicago?
01:18 < mareklug_> where else be I
01:18 < dtm_> you could be anywhere!  i wouldn't put it past you.
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01:21 < mareklug_> dtm_ have you heard by now that the Camino browser development is officially kaput?  When you launch it now, they ask you to go find a kept-up browser.
01:21 < dtm_> you're a [[couscous]] [[Connoisseur]]
01:22 < dtm_> mareklug_: no i hadn't heard that;  at no point in my life could i have possibly cared less about the existence of the Camino or iCab browsers.  i barely even know their names.  as for Camino, i literally forgot its name.
01:22 < mareklug_> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2747087405.png     it takes being in Chicago to have this sort of bandwidth/ping  for 30 bucks a month
01:23 < dtm_> mareklug_: well done.  i benchmarked 22Mbps down and 11Mbps up, on Sprint LTE on my iphone 5
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01:23 < mareklug_> dtm_ the iCab is the lifesaver of the system 7 and system 8 user.  even though it has major difficulties with JavaScript
01:23 < dtm_> here in a small town
01:23 < dtm_> mareklug_: how is it better than mozilla
01:23 < mareklug_> Mozilla 1.3.1 is actually quite ok, but it too crashes unexpectedly
01:23 < mareklug_> and it does not tun on 7
01:24 < mareklug_> it's good to have alternatives
01:24 < tommorris> IE5 for Mac. ;)
01:24 < dtm_> sheesh.
01:25 < mareklug_> tommorris on system 8.5 and up, yes.  not on 8.1 and not on 7.
01:25 < dtm_> so the only value in iCab is for 68000 systems
01:25 < mareklug_> it does show up on 10.2.8
01:25 < dtm_> like a Mac SE
01:25 < mareklug_> or even 10.2 out of the box
01:25 < dtm_> mareklug_: i have an imac g3 bondi blue, which probably has 10.2 on it
01:25 < dtm_> i think it's 300 MHz and 128MB or something
01:25 < mareklug_> dtm you would be surprised.  Go to http://icab.de and look at all their offerings on the Download page.
01:26 < dtm_> i dont wanna know its specs lol
01:26 < mareklug_> dtm I meant, they ahve it for MOUNTAIN LION
01:26 < dtm_> uh huh
01:26 < mareklug_> iCab 5.01 or something
01:26 < mareklug_> 20$ shareware, but the only nag is the initial popup box.
01:26 < SigmaWP> http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/ottomanrifles_s5S.jpg
01:27 < mareklug_> but over the years I have paid them at least twice. :)
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01:31 < dtm_> mareklug_: paying for a web browser.  ludicrous!
01:32 < dtm_> mareklug_: have you been to the chicago wikipedia meetups?
01:33 -!- peachey|laptop__ [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
01:33 < mareklug_> no.  I have resisted being drafted as its organizer, too.  Hardly anyone goes to them, and it is all guys, and it is far away from me.
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01:40 < dtm_> mareklug_: all.... guys?  lol
01:42 < dtm_> tommorris: http://pastebin.com/bMRLT1S8
01:42 < dtm_> tommorris: let me know what you think
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01:43 < dtm_> and you, mareklug_, if you have enlightened concerns about OTRS and about wiki-legalism
01:44 < tommorris> dtm_: who is that to? the deleting admin? because I've kind of already emailed him.
01:44 < dtm_> tommorris: yes
01:44 < dtm_> and that's nice, and serves to strengthen the issue, but i wanted to reply too
01:45 < dtm_> coz i'm neat like that
01:45 < dtm_> i take it pretty seriously.  i am personally maxed out with this whole phenomenon.
01:45 < dtm_> or, i should say, the overall transparency and health of the organization and of the volunteer community, are one of my primary personal interests
01:46 < dtm_> even though i can't friggin see through it at all
01:47 < dtm_> ...cabals
01:48 < tommorris> OTRS isn't really a cabal, or rather it is a necessary cabal.
01:48 < dtm_> perhaps they're a necessary "evil"
01:48 < dtm_> hah.  stereo.
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01:56 < dtm_> tommorris: so what do you think about my letter?  sounds good?
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01:57 < dtm_> tommorris: the words of a model citizen?
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02:06 < tommorris> dtm_: dunno, I'm afraid, just went into headache zone.
02:06 < dtm_> tommorris: oh no.  i'm sorry man.
02:06 < tommorris> dtm_: drawing large scale conclusions on the basis of individual cases seems problematic
02:07 < dtm_> tommorris: i wasn't drawing a conclusion.  i was stating a general concession for the individual
02:08 < dtm_> "i wouldn't know" is not a conclusion ^_^
02:08 < dtm_> tommorris: but you go take care of yourself or whatever
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02:08 < tommorris> I was going to try and spit out a few paragraphs for Wikinews, but I should really go out for a walk
02:09 < dtm_> tommorris: yeah.  do that.
02:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> "OTRS is run by an elite group of users, I know this because they didnt let me in" - A certain wikipedian
02:10  * ToAruShiroiNeko pets tommorris with a crowbar
02:11 < dtm_> lol!
02:11 < dtm_> LOLS for all!
02:12 < tommorris> can't be that elite, they let me in.
02:12 < mareklug_> tommorris you should not pet people who come with crowbars
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02:12 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug_ its a half life reference
02:12 < mareklug_> erm, I meant, ToAruShiroiNeko shouldn't
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02:13 < dtm_> tommorris: i removed some of the generalized talk
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02:14 < dtm_> tommorris: sent.  now, as for you, GET OUT
02:16 < dtm_> <3
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02:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug_ there are unconfirmed reports of two deaths
02:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> 1000-2000 injuries
02:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> and at least 939 arrests
02:18 < mareklug_> why are Turks being unhappy?
02:18 -!- Seahorse [~Seahorse@wikipedia/Seahorseruler] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
02:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its an accumilation of a number of issues
02:19 < dtm_> geez, mareklug_ what did you DO?!
02:19 < SigmaWP> mareklug_: It started with the government wanting to build a mall over a park
02:19 < dtm_> oh this one wasn't mareklug_'s fault?
02:19 < SigmaWP> You know what
02:19 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has left #wikipedia-en ["The bumblebee lived on the archipelago, and the tessellating glimmers hitting the stochastic tsunami at sunset dazzled its photoreceptors"]
02:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> especially secularists do not like the imposement of religous life on them
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02:19 < SigmaWP> mareklug_: http://i.imgur.com/q3XfOFf.jpg
02:20 < ToAruShiroiNeko> over the course of the past 8 months a number of events happened
02:20 < SigmaWP> mareklug_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEapNRakzDI too
02:20 < ToAruShiroiNeko> including severe restrictions on alcohol, attempts to ban public kissing
02:20 < dtm_> SigmaWP: wow.
02:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> last week tere was a kissing protest where people defied pressure by attempting to kiss in public
02:21 -!- mareklug_ is now known as mareklug
02:21 < mareklug> why did I have a tail?
02:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> some dickheads attaped to "fix" that with a meat clever
02:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug you missed everything I typed right?
02:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> or not?
02:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> oh you just changed nick
02:22 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko not at all.  my screen is yellow with your pings
02:22 < mareklug> as that is the highlight color
02:22 < ToAruShiroiNeko> ah
02:22 < ToAruShiroiNeko> overal the prime minister tries to dictate everything and people are rather tired of it
02:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> the violent supression of gezi park protestors was the final draw
02:24 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko with all due respect, this heavy government hand is not befitting a 21st century country that wishes to join EU
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02:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I dont think islamists leaning conservatives are remotely interested in joining the EU
02:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> very few europeans can read turkish politics right
02:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> The Turkish Doctors Association said on 31 May that nearly 1000 people were injured in Istanbul, including six who lost eyes after being hit in the face by tear gas canisters.
02:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko>  Human Rights Watch reported a student losing an eye after being hit by a plastic bullet.
02:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Amnesty International reports that at least two protestors in Istanbul have died.
02:29 < ToAruShiroiNeko> offically all over a bunch of trees
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02:34 < jubo2> peer is a member of the Turkish Secret Police
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02:36 < jubo2> wb ToAruShiroiNeko
02:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug suprisingly there are a lot of freely licensed videos
02:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> o hai
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02:44 < kondi> http://menstrupedia.com/
02:45 < kondi> top visitors from India, followed by US
02:46 < mareklug> dtm_  it fucking works with one click, and it is Mac OS 9.04!!!!!  The dude did a brilliant job of customizing sheepshaver and setting it up so it would just work, and used his own 9.04 disk to do this (more or less; I read the readme).    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105918205/ClassicOnIntelWorkingOnMyLAN.png
02:47 < mareklug> dtm_ that's emulator talking to my Debian 6.0.6 on the Wallstreet without me configuring a thing.
02:49 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug so yeah thats a summary of a long term frustration
02:49 < ToAruShiroiNeko> live cameras seem to be disabled
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03:14 < mareklug> dtm_ are you there, my man?????  this is a time to break out a Leinenkugel's!
03:15 < mareklug> networking works as long as you don't switch on appletalk :)
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03:42 < jubo2> beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!
03:42 < gry> Ouch.
03:42 < gry> It doesn't sound particularly compatible with Wikipedia, does it.
03:42 < jubo2> Nothing like drinkin' & trolling
03:43 < jubo2> 'xcept smoking crack and trolling of course
03:43 < tommorris> I tend to find a double vodka makes ANI much more enjoyable.
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04:31 < YuviPanda> being not involved makes ANI a lot more enjoyable too :)
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05:23 < ToAruShiroiNeko> live protests: http://rt.com/on-air/turkey-protest-istanbul-park/
05:25 < elkng> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey
05:26 < closedmouth> gobble gobble
05:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> closedmouth you are aware of the 2 fatalities and 1000 injured I hope.
05:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I tend to have such high hopes :p
05:27 < closedmouth> it's turkey time
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05:45 < LtNOWIS-mobile> Hmm. I didn't realize the 9/11 hijackers checked bags when they boarded
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05:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> LtNOWIS-mobile so luggage restrictions was the source of 9/11? O_o
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06:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I am reading about more tear gas...
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07:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Theo10011 I offer tear gas for the masses :3
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07:39  * ToAruShiroiNeko tear gasses TParis
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07:40 < Maeby> Call me Maeby.
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07:44 < LtNOWIS-mobile> I could watch Veronica Mars if I were in the lobby
07:44 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Protestor shot with live bullet dies
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07:46 < Carly> good morning :)
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07:52 < Theo10011> ToAruShiroiNeko, you are tear-ing me apart.
07:52 < Theo10011> Yes, hello.
07:52 < Carly> hi Theo10011 :)
07:52 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I am not lisa
07:53 < Carly> o.o
07:53 -!- Jetro [~UserNick@53.211.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #wikipedia-en
07:53 < Carly> JETRO
07:54 -!- YE [~chatzilla@ip70-180-214-180.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
07:54 < Jetro> Carly
07:55 < Carly> Jetro helou
07:55 < Carly> :)
07:56 < Jetro> hleuo
07:57 < Carly> o.O
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08:15 < jubo2> Cheezy meatpie!
08:19 < TOS> Has anyone seen rcsprinter around?
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08:23 < Carly> TOS nope,he is not joining 2 days ago
08:24 -!- lukas23 [uid7848@wikipedia/Lukas23] has joined #wikipedia-en
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08:26 < TOS> Ok
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08:27 < Theo10011> ZOMG carly replied to my tweety
08:27 < Carly> lol
08:27 < Carly> :)
08:27 < Carly> yes and gave #FollowBack
08:27 < Theo10011> That's very important^
08:28 < Carly> :)
08:29 < kondi> Theo10011: I think I'm following you on twitter
08:29 < Theo10011> kondi, checking
08:30 < Theo10011> what's your twitter handle?
08:31 < kondi> something weird
08:31 < Carly> lol,I don't know how many followers I do have :(
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08:34 < Carly> theo10011 you replied to me again like a crazy xd
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08:42 < kondi> YuviPanda: around?
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08:43 < YuviPanda> yo
08:43 < YuviPanda> sortof
08:43 < YuviPanda> 'sup?
08:44 < Carly> i.i
08:44 < kondi> struggling with some javascript
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08:45 < Carly> dtm_ I followed you
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08:55 < mareklug> addihockey10 http://www.tigerdirect.com/email/wem3669.asp?SRCCODE=WEM3669TT&cm_mmc=EML-_-Main-_-WEM3669-_-tigeremail3669&utm_source=EML&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=WEM3669    your Hasswell prices, motherboards, and bundles, and even a stoooopid Asus monitor for dirt money
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08:59 < YuviPanda> kondi: oh, show me
08:59 < YuviPanda> also come on on #mediawiki
09:02 < TOS> Any admins around?
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09:18 < Shirik> TOS: What's up
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09:27 < kondi> -_-
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09:33 < Carly> Hello
09:34 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@pool-96-224-16-199.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
09:36 < addshore> Hello!
09:36 < TOS> Hello!
09:36 < Carly> hi addshore :)
09:36 < addshore> Hi TOS ! Hi Carly !
09:37 < TOS> Whats the new news at the new court?
09:37 < Carly> someone want cookies
09:37 < Carly> ?
09:37 < TOS> Me.
09:38  * Carly gives cookies to TOS
09:38 < addshore> anyone want to proof read something for me? :D
09:38 < TOS> Sure
09:38 < Carly> picnic!
09:39 < addshore> TOS: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Global_Wikidata_Bots :D
09:39  * TOS eats the cookies
09:39  * Carly eats too
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09:42 < Carly> lol
09:43 < Theo10011> cookie cookie cookie
09:43 < Carly> you came late
09:43 < Theo10011> Cookie!
09:44  * Carly steals cookies from kitchen
09:44  * Carly gives them to Theo10011
09:47 < Qcoder00> Hmm
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09:56 < Carly> the BKN actress dead :(
09:56 < Carly> she was sick
09:56  * Carly hides
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10:14 < koishi> this guy's trying too hard
10:14 < koishi> i'd really like to know how people get these kind of mentalities
10:15 < Theo10011> ?
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10:20 < koishi> theo10011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:C1_(television)#Suggested_renaming
10:21 < koishi> i wonder how many of these sources use "nintendo wii"...
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10:26 < Carly> lol
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10:28 < Qcoder00> BTW I heard  some geek describe  hacking a wii to run homebrew  as 'taking the p**s out of nintendo!"
10:28 < Qcoder00> It made me giigle owing to British slang
10:29 < kondi> I shouldn't have gotten on irc today
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10:35 < koishi> ok, he is literally ignoring the box
10:36 < koishi> i gotta make this joke
10:36 < koishi> i just gotta
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10:40 < dtm_> Qcoder00: yes.  moronic.
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10:40 < Qcoder00> hi dtm_
10:43 < koishi> ok this guy's starting to accuse me of stuff
10:43 < TOS2> koishi, where?
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10:44 < dtm_> Carly: yeah i saw.  you're definitely not going to translate my article, so i'll continue my search.
10:45 < Carly> I will try
10:45 < dtm_> i can't believe that there's not a template to find someone to translate from english.
10:45 -!- jubo2 [~jubo2@87-95-33-105.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:45 < Carly> sorry,I dont have a laptop and if still dont know,I am connected to IRC from my phone
10:45 < Carly> I cant edit from a phone!!!!
10:46 < dtm_> mareklug: blam blam blam blammmmm
10:46 < dtm_> mareklug: and it's fast huh
10:46 < elkng> are there some documentary on wiki ?
10:47 < elkng> some long videos like ones from history or science channels
10:47 < dtm_> tommorris: feeling better sir?  the OTRS guy robotically ignored everything i said!  so i helpfully informed him of that.
10:47 < elkng> or the only content on wiki is html pages, pictures, short audio samples and video ?
10:48 < dtm_> Carly: sorry to hear that! <3 <3 <3
10:48 < Jeske_Couriano> elkng) We do not host documentaries.
10:48 -!- Moskau [~chatzilla@wikipedia/deskana] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]]
10:48 < dtm_> elkng: http://www.videoonwikipedia.com/r
10:48 < dtm_> oops.  http://www.videoonwikipedia.com/
10:48 < dtm_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lights_Camera_Wiki
10:48 -!- addfood is now known as addshore
10:48 < dtm_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Videos
10:48 < Carly> dtm_ maybe I can try edit something on the article,but be aware,it will be  very slow
10:49 < koishi> tos2: hang on, laying the smackdown (that will be completely ignored)
10:49 < dtm_> Carly: no dont worry about it on a phone if you dont want to!  lol
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10:49 < koishi> this guy is seriously trying to tell me that the fucking box of the product is going to be a sps somehow
10:49 < Ironholds> koishi: again, where?
10:49 < koishi> i'm getting these images from google! you're getting your usage counts from google too, clown
10:50 < Carly> how I log in from my phone
10:50 -!- Solarra [~Solarra@wikipedia/Solarra] has quit [Quit: Solarra]
10:50 < koishi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:SF1_(television)
10:50 < dtm_> Carly: how wouldn't you?
10:50 < koishi> about to publish something, hang on
10:50 < dtm_> Carly: username and password
10:50 < Carly> ah
10:50 < Carly> but where
10:50 -!- lbenedix1 [~lbenedix@g225045218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:50 < dtm_> Carly: every mobile page has a link to the full page
10:50 -!- DivT [~Umut@c83-251-213-231.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:50 < Carly> :(
10:50 -!- TOS2 [TOS@wikipedia/TheOriginalSoni] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:50 < Carly> I dont know
10:51 < dtm_> you don't know what?
10:51 < Carly> how log in
10:52 -!- lbenedix [~lbenedix@e179164215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
10:52 < dtm_> :-I
10:52 < Carly> :|
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10:57 < Bradford> Guerillero:  :333
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11:00 < Guerillero> hey Bradford
11:01 < PinkAmpersand> Susan: around?
11:01 < Solarra> h PinkAmpersand :-)
11:01 < PinkAmpersand> hi Solarra! :)
11:01 < Bradford> :-)
11:01 < Susan> PinkAmpersand: Maybe.
11:01 < Susan> I'm raging at GitHub.
11:02 < Susan> And debating what to do for lunch.
11:02 < PinkAmpersand> Susan: am i correct in recalling that "snitch" is your bot?
11:02 < Susan> Yes.
11:02 < YuviPanda> what did GitHub do?
11:02 < PinkAmpersand> ah. apparently someone's instructed it to stalk every change on en.wp, leading to the predictable meltdown
11:02 < Susan> I keep getting an angry unicorn.
11:02 < Susan> Rather than the page I want.
11:02 < Susan> They were having issues earlier today.
11:02 < Susan> I think this is related.
11:03 < PinkAmpersand> angry unicorn... sounds like something out of Narnia
11:03 < Susan> PinkAmpersand: People are the worst.
11:03 < Susan> PinkAmpersand: So just unstalk that?
11:03 < Susan> Who abused the bot?
11:03 < Qcoder00> Erm
11:03 < PinkAmpersand> idk.
11:03 < PinkAmpersand> JL|AWAY is the one who mentioned ti to me
11:03 < PinkAmpersand> *it
11:04 < Qcoder00> elkng: Documenatries would be on Commons
11:04 -!- TOS [TOS@wikipedia/TheOriginalSoni] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
11:04 < Qcoder00> I wasn't aware of any good ones under a 'free' license
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11:04 < dtm_> Carly: what happened to your laptop?
11:05 < Carly> is hidden
11:05 < dtm_> Carly: did your mom and dad take it away because you were bad?  </3
11:05 < Carly> my dad took away my laptop,he said I was much time online
11:05 < PinkAmpersand> thanks MZ!
11:05 < elkng> Qcoder00: is "Through The Wormhole" in commons ?
11:05 < Carly> then,is saved fron March
11:05 < dtm_> Carly: does he... know you have a phone?
11:05 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@wikipedia/Martijn-Hoekstra] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
11:06 < Qcoder00> elkng: I don't think so
11:06 < Qcoder00> Is it under a 'free' license?
11:06 < Carly> yes
11:06 < dtm_> Carly: does he think that makes any sense?
11:06 < Carly> he tries every day to take away the phone,but cannot dl
11:06 < dtm_> lol???
11:06 < Carly> nope
11:06 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:06 < Carly> :/
11:06 < dtm_> oh, Carly, Carly, Carly!
11:06 < dtm_> ay, Carly!
11:07 < dtm_> ay, ay, Cap'n Carl!!!
11:07 < Carly> lol?
11:07 < sheepish_kondi> man, coffee was awful
11:07 < Bradford> Carly:  fea
11:07 < sheepish_kondi> fucking shit it was
11:07 < dtm_> Carly: clearly i can see that the next step is that this channel must punish you.
11:07 < Carly> feo bradford
11:07 < Carly> punish¿
11:07 < dtm_> the Carly *must* be punished!
11:08 < Bradford> Carly:  sos demasiado fea
11:08 < Bradford> |:
11:08  * TOS2 pulls out a pitchfork
11:08 < koishi> getting sick of this
11:08 < koishi> these guys just wanna fight
11:08 < Carly> bradford sos feo y monstruo
11:08 < Carly> no
11:08 < Bradford> Carly:  yes
11:08 < Bradford> sos muy fea
11:08 < Carly> I dont wanna fight
11:08 < Carly> No
11:08 < koishi> they're not the slightest bit concerned for this stupid old tv that probably doesn't even work anymore
11:08 < Carly> bradford sos horrible
11:08 < Bradford> yes
11:08 < Bradford> no
11:08 < Carly> no
11:08 < Bradford> yes
11:08 < Carly> yes
11:08 < Carly> no
11:08 < dtm_> koishi: what guys?
11:08 < Bradford> no
11:09 < Bradford> >_>
11:09 < Carly> stop
11:09 < Bradford> stop you
11:09 < Carly> no,you
11:09 < Bradford> no, you
11:09 < Carly> or I will ignore
11:09 < dtm_> NO U
11:09 < Bradford> <_<
11:09 < koishi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:C1_(television)#Suggested_renaming
11:09  * Carly sets ignore
11:09 < dtm_> koishi: oh hahaaaaaaa.
11:10 < dtm_> koishi: it's time for you to set it straight
11:10 -!- JZTech101 [~jztech101@c-24-0-88-174.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:10 < dtm_> koishi: to be the voice of reason
11:10 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:10 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@h104217.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #wikipedia-en
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11:11 < Carly> dtm_ I am logged in,can you please give me the links to translate?
11:11 -!- YuviPanda is now known as zz_YuviPanda
11:12 -!- ragesoss_ [~quassel@pool-74-98-210-132.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:13 -!- TOS2 [TOS@wikipedia/TheOriginalSoni] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
11:14 -!- TOS [TOS@117.194.83.58] has joined #wikipedia-en
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11:14 -!- addihockey10_ [c6073ecc@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has joined #wikipedia-en
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11:15 < koishi> it hurts
11:15 < koishi> oh it hurts
11:15 < koishi> dtm_: who are you talking about specifically
11:15 < Carly> cool
11:16 < koishi> err, what
11:17 -!- Mike_H [~quassel@72.184.56.186] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:17 -!- Mike_H is now known as Guest2521
11:19 < koishi> "Where is this box art you keep mentioning?" <-- i don't want to live on this planet anymore :(
11:19 < koishi> i'm being trolled
11:19 < koishi> there is no other explanation for this daymare
11:20 < dtm_> Carly: you're dedicated.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walfredo_Reyes,_Jr.  -->  http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario:Smuckola/Walfredo_Reyes,_Jr.
11:20 < Carly> thank you again dtm_
11:20 < dtm_> Carly: don't get in trouble!  do your homework!  do your chores!  don't do drugs!  stay in school!
11:21 -!- Harpagornis [~Harpagorn@wikimedia/Harpagornis] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:21 < Carly> dtm_ ?
11:23 < mattbuck> you heard dtm_
11:23 < mattbuck> are you in school right now?
11:24 -!- lbenedix [~lbenedix@g225045218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:24 -!- jakr [~jake@unaffiliated/jakr] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:25 -!- Dcoetzee [~Dcoetzee@wikimedia/Dcoetzee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:25  * GorillaWarfare shudders
11:25 < GorillaWarfare> The coating of pollen on my desk is pretty horrifying
11:25  * mattbuck hands GorillaWarfare a blanket
11:26 -!- Dcoetzee [~Dcoetzee@wikimedia/Dcoetzee] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:26 -!- lbenedix1 [~lbenedix@g225045218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
11:26 < GorillaWarfare> Gah
11:26 < GorillaWarfare> No
11:26 < GorillaWarfare> Get it away
11:27 -!- Guest2521 is now known as Mike_H
11:27 -!- Jasper_Deng_away is now known as Jasper_Deng
11:27 -!- JustBerry [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/justberry] has left #wikipedia-en []
11:28 -!- nas is now known as zz_nas
11:28 < mattbuck> agh, just got fucking blinded :/
11:29 < mattbuck> someone across the road opened a window, and the angle was just right to reflect blinding sun at me
11:29 < Theo10011> are you driving?
11:29 < mattbuck> no
11:32 -!- JL|AWAY is now known as JohnLewis
11:33 < Bradford> Carly:  feo
11:33 < Bradford> fea*
11:34 < Carly> ** 'Bradford' added to ignore list. User is ignored for: Channel, Private, Notice, Invite
11:34 < Carly> bye.
11:34 < Bradford> -_-
11:34 -!- darev [~darev@p54AA84E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:35 < darev> Hello!
11:35 -!- TAP|away is now known as thineantiquepen
11:35 -!- Jetro [~UserNick@53.211.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
11:36 < Bradford> hi darev
11:36 < darev> hi, Bradford
11:37 < mareklug> dtm dunno how fast it is, as I am still solving basic transportation problems (getting Mac files over ftp without corrupting the forks).  There used to be a gzip for Mac OS 9, I am pretty sure, but I have not located it yet.  And even silly BinHex utility has eluded me.  This is because of incompetent StuffIt/Stufft Expander compatibilities on various machines.
11:37 < mareklug> and as I said, appletalk switched on will bring the emulator down on connection attempt
11:38 < koishi> of course now he refuses to say anything else
11:38 < koishi> and if he does, it'll ignore half of what i say yet again
11:38 -!- zz_nas is now known as nas
11:38 < koishi> and accuse me of some other stupid thing
11:38 < koishi> how are you supposed to deal with these people?
11:38 < mareklug> dtm_ ^
11:38 < Bradford> ( ͡°  ͜ʖ͡°)
11:38 < koishi> i'm tired of waiting, i'll check later
11:40 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:40 -!- DivT [~Umut@c83-251-213-231.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:41 -!- Fleet|mobile [~timmeh@cpe-74-78-76-129.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
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11:52 < dtm_> mareklug: why are you using ftp and not netatalk?
11:52 < dtm_> or anything at all other than netatalk
11:53 < dtm_> oh.
11:53 < dtm_> so the emulator crashes?  :-o
11:53 < dtm_> lol
11:53 < mareklug> i don't have a netalk anything, and I doubt I could unpack it in the current state of disaster
11:53 < mareklug> I am looking to bootstrap myself in the Stuffit lossage
11:53 < dtm_> koishi: regarding the NES TV?  submit it to the arbitration group, whatever that is
11:54 < dtm_> mareklug: you don't know that there's always been a free native appletalk server for unix?  interesting.  well, there is.
11:54 < dtm_> sudo apt-get install netatalk
11:54 < dtm_> is what i'd imagine would work
11:54 < mareklug> it does not matter, does it, if the sheepshitter quits when you enable its appletalk
11:54 < dtm_> yeah.
11:55 < dtm_> mareklug: and you can't upgrade the mac os 9 guest?
11:55 < Carly> (Error) Unfortunatly, DCC is not possible over 3G, so it isn't and won't be supported
11:55 < Carly> :(
11:55 < dtm_> Carly: wat
11:55 < dtm_> Carly: DCC on IRC?
11:55 < Carly> yes
11:55 < dtm_> Carly: did your dad take your wifi router too
11:55 -!- Bradford [kvirc@unaffiliated/bradford] has quit [Quit: Limpieza a la compuuuuuuuu :DDDD]
11:56 < dtm_> how are you DCCing stuff from your phone?
11:56 < dtm_> what are you wanting to DCC?
11:56 < mareklug> dtm I am sorry, but I have 9.04 running thanks to the TBP download, and that is the end of road for that baby.  The point that is more salient is that I am shit out of luck for now unpacking anything, as all I have is stuffit 4 tools, specifically, StuffIt 4.5.  so I am trying to get a Stuffit5 that may be unpacked by 4.5 and so on down the line to 7.03.
11:56 < Carly> dtm_ I dont have wi-fi,I use internet mobile
11:56 < dtm_> mareklug: yeah i meant i was wondering if it'd be more stable using a newer mac os 9 if you ran the mac os updater
11:56 < Carly> my 3G net
11:56 < dtm_> mareklug: is there some reason that a newer mac os won't work?
11:56 < dtm_> like 9.2.2 or whatever it is
11:57 < dtm_> mareklug: also doesn't Fetch decode stuff?
11:57 < mareklug> it may.  I have stuffit expander the newest running on my Intel desktop right now
11:57 < dtm_> mareklug: so it could decode an archivers
11:57 < dtm_> Carly: why do you want dcc
11:58 < Carly> for do something
11:58 < mareklug> indeed it did.  now to shlep it over to sheepsavage
11:58 < dtm_> mareklug: insufferable!
11:59 < dtm_> mareklug: i faced the same chicken-and-egg problem many times in the 90s
11:59 < dtm_> even on my Apple //gs.  i used the Macs at school, to copy between ProDOS and FAT16 disks
11:59 < dtm_> ridiculous.
12:01 -!- sheepish_kondi [~kondi@wikimedia/kondicherry] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:01 < mareklug> no, the fucking things was mutiliated in the transport from 10.8.3 to the emulator.  It lost its creator and icon and shit knows what else.  It looks fine on 10.8.3
12:01 < mareklug> this is very annoying.
12:01 < dtm_> yeah.
12:02 < mareklug> I need BinHex for all my shines
12:03 < dtm_> blam
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12:06 -!- Yetanotherx|afk is now known as Yetanotherx
12:06 -!- Carly is now known as Carly|away
12:07 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-098-027-034-197.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:10 -!- zz_nas is now known as nas
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12:18 < SigmaWP> Do the people here have any opinion on Julian Assange?
12:19 -!- jubo2 [~jubo2@87-95-33-105.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Beams.]
12:20 < QueenOfFrance> SigmaWP: he's some aussie dude I think
12:20 < Theo10011> He needs to get his hair dyed.
12:20 < Theo10011> Pink would look nice.
12:20 < QueenOfFrance> Theo10011: lmao that would indeed look nice
12:20 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
12:20 < Theo10011> The white hair makes him look like a villain.
12:20 < Theo10011> Pink or purple would suit him.
12:21 < QueenOfFrance> and pink her would make him look like somebody out of MLP or something
12:21 < SigmaWP> nah, white is fine
12:21 < SigmaWP> He just needs a beard now
12:21 < QueenOfFrance> {{cn}}
12:22 < SigmaWP> He kind of looks like Michio Kaku
12:22 < QueenOfFrance> He looks like a villain
12:22 -!- nsh [~nsh@obquire.infologie.co] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:22 < QueenOfFrance> all he needs is blind eyes
12:22 < QueenOfFrance> or red eyes
12:22 < SigmaWP> or sinister glasses
12:22 < QueenOfFrance> or a cat
12:22 < Theo10011> or a phantom hand
12:22 < QueenOfFrance> and a swirly chair
12:24 < QueenOfFrance> #wikipedia-en, your home for fashion advice.
12:24 < Theo10011> Dr. strangeassange
12:26 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@wikipedia/Guerillero] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
12:26 < mareklug> dtm_ partial success:  managed to snag a stuffit expander 5.1.2 that the wretched stuffit classic 4.5 managed to unpack despite erroring; then the expander 5.1.2 managed to unpack Stuffit 7.0.3 which just installed and made me reboot.
12:26 < dtm_> k
12:27 < QueenOfFrance> wait, you need to reboot to install a simple winrar clone for mac? :P
12:27 < dtm_> mareklug: lol
12:27 < QueenOfFrance> "StuffIt® Zips Everything!!"
12:27 < Jasper_Deng> QueenOfFrance: reboots are almost never actually necessary
12:27 < Jasper_Deng> when installing most software
12:27 < Jasper_Deng> despite what many installers tell you
12:27 < mareklug> dtm_ and we have Gzip
12:27 < QueenOfFrance> Jasper_Deng: I'm not a mac user.
12:27 < Jasper_Deng> that's on Windows
12:27 < dtm_> force quit the installer!
12:27 < QueenOfFrance> Jasper_Deng: then what do I care about?
12:28  * Jasper_Deng knows what OS you use
12:28 < QueenOfFrance> as in, did you really think I was so stupid that I didn't know that? *headdes*
12:28 < mareklug> Jasper_Deng when you have a fucking modal dialog with the only option being restart, you restart
12:28 < Jasper_Deng> no
12:28 -!- Theopolisme is now known as Theo|away
12:28 < Jasper_Deng> I've always seen "cancel"
12:28 < QueenOfFrance> also, I was assuming this stuffit thing was being run on mac
12:28 < QueenOfFrance> seems pointless on win
12:28 < dtm_> "Economist [[Tyler Cowen]] wrote: "If I had to guess whether Wikipedia or the median refereed journal article on economics was more likely to be true, after a not so long think I would opt for Wikipedia."" -- [[Wikipedia]]
12:29 -!- forbidEOH [~hashedSXH@adsl-74-177-136-183.int.bellsouth.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:29 < mareklug> QueenOfFrance far from pointless, it lets you unstuff mac stuff on win.
12:29 < mareklug> or rather, mac-packaged stuff on win
12:29 < mareklug> and indeed thear are .exe versions, I snagged a few while doing my searching
12:29 < QueenOfFrance> mareklug: as in .dmg?
12:29 -!- nsh [~nsh@obquire.infologie.co] has quit [Changing host]
12:29 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:29 < QueenOfFrance> or what sort of archive format are we talking about?
12:29 < mareklug> QueenOfFrance sure, and binhez anbd macbinary and .sit
12:30 < mareklug> binhex
12:30 < QueenOfFrance> "Changes to the Stuffit compression software, claimed by the developer to be upgrades, frequently render previous versions of Stuffit unable to decompress newer archives without first downloading or purchasing the new version." LOL
12:31 < dtm_> we're talking about obsolete archive formats fyi
12:31 < mareklug> Jasper_Deng with all due respect, you know shit about how Mac system 7/8/9 works, apparently.  You have to reboot in order to activate the newly lodged Extensions.
12:31  * Jasper_Deng hasn't used any Mac version earlier than 9 and hasn't used any version earlier than 10 since 6 years ago
12:31 < mareklug> QueenOfFrance indeed, a living hell.
12:32 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@66.59.113.130] has joined #wikipedia-en
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12:32 < QueenOfFrance> mareklug: no chances of setting fire to whoever is making you use these formats? :(
12:32 < mareklug> so perhaps Jasper_Deng should not opine on the subject, hmmm?
12:32 < dtm_> "freely distributable stuff gets upgraded" isn't a hardship.
12:32 < nsh> *whomever
12:32 < nsh> ;)
12:32 < dtm_> QueenOfFrance: it is entirely masochistic
12:33 < mareklug> QueenOfFrance you don't understand.  I am trying to resurrect a whole farm of obsolete equipment.  Right now I am in the let's-make ftp safe for transporting mac stuff on the LAN phase
12:33 < QueenOfFrance> mareklug: oh dear, I see
12:33 < QueenOfFrance> Seems like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unarchiver opens at least some formats
12:33 < dtm_> yeah and that's only because he's not able to run native file sharing :-o
12:33 < mareklug> QueenOfFrance the end result will be being able to use my modern iMac to edit my ancient documents that require Mac 7/9 software.
12:33 < QueenOfFrance> mareklug: oh I see
12:34 < dtm_> mareklug: did you google for sheepshaver crashing with appleshare?
12:34 < mareklug> no, i was busy chasing stuffit
12:34 < tommorris> people still use StuffIt?
12:35 < QueenOfFrance> tommorris: scroll up, mareklug's trying to open some old stuff
12:35 < dtm_> :-I
12:35 < dtm_> yes, and you knew that
12:35 < tommorris> oh okay. when the Mac community moved away from .sit files, I was very, very happy
12:35 < mareklug> now that I have Gzip available in the simulator and can ftp to the other macs, I can gzip the stuff that is missing on them (Stuffit 7.0.3 installer) and safely get it over there.  then the Gzip itself.  and then I will be able to get my documents and applications (PageMaker mainly) safely over to the emulator on the Intel iMac
12:35 < dtm_> tommorris: i replied again btw.  the guy refused.
12:36 < tommorris> dtm_: what a ballache. when I have a few minutes, I'll start something on Commons about whether OTRSers should have the right to use their brains when it comes to what are likely to be work for hire portraits
12:36 < mareklug> tommorris actaully the stuffit people are peddling their wares even on Mountain Lion and Windows 7
12:36 < dtm_> tommorris: how's your head?
12:36 < dtm_> tommorris: you are a gem
12:37 < Qcoder00> tommorris:  I am pleased
12:37 < dtm_> tommorris: he said "On 17 March, somebody pasted {{OTRS pending}} to the image. He should have
12:37 < dtm_> notified you, but as far as I can see this didn't happen. I'm sorry for that. We assume per default that the depicted person is not the photographer unless
12:37 < dtm_> explained otherwise. "
12:37 < Qcoder00> My proposal about a preusmption of deletion on certain images has sparked a debate...
12:37 < Qcoder00> :)
12:37 < Qcoder00> Most people seemed to want to keep the status quo though
12:37 < dtm_> so i asked him that unless the written policy is to delete first and discuss later, then please undelete it now for discussion.
12:37 < QueenOfFrance> DELETE ALL.
12:37 < QueenOfFrance> Solves all issues.
12:38 < tommorris> dtm_: the issue there isn't whether the depcited person is the photographer, it is whether OTRSers should be able to apply common sense in determining whether things are probably work-for-hire
12:38 < dtm_> sudo rm -rf ~QueenOfFrance
12:38 < dtm_> tommorris: yeah that too
12:38 < tommorris> like, if it is a photo of a small business owner and it is used on their website, it is probably work-for-hire
12:38 < dtm_> tommorris: that's what i said.
12:38 < tommorris> if it is a celebrity, might not be
12:38 < QueenOfFrance> dtm_: Permission denied.
12:38 < tommorris> the way to decide is: use your fucking brain
12:38 < Qcoder00> tommorris:  Hi
12:39 < tommorris> and, dtm_, marginally better than it was. I might actually be able to face next week at work without wanting to murder anyone. ;)
12:39 < tommorris> hey Qcoder00
12:39 -!- forbidEOH [~hashedSXH@adsl-74-177-136-183.int.bellsouth.net] has left #wikipedia-en ["Silentium est aureum"]
12:39 < Qcoder00> My proposal get resolutey trashed
12:39 < Qcoder00> :(
12:39 < dtm_> tommorris: but EVEN SO.  my point is that REGARDLESS of any of that, we made a good faith assertion of copyright ownership.  nobody else knows any differently, and nobody in the public has challenged that assertion.  thus they have no logical, legal, or community-common-sense-decency basis for messing with it.  amirite.
12:39 -!- juliancolton [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Juliancolton] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
12:40 < dtm_> tommorris: what if i'd said that my uncle Sir Ronald of McDonald, was the photographer?
12:40 < dtm_> and *yes*, OTRS, that *is* his natural Christian name
12:41 < dtm_> Yes, it is.  how dare you, you pack of racists
12:41 < dtm_> the Lord blessed him with jolly features.
12:42 < tommorris> dtm_: Commons and common sense do not mix very well. Like, if you claim to be a Wikipedian, you can go and take a stack of photos and upload them and claim them to be your copyright. I do so under my driving-license-name ('Tom Morris'), but others do so under pseudonyms ('Physics is all gnomes', 'Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry', 'Can't sleep, clown will eat me' etc. etc.)
12:42 -!- TOS [TOS@wikipedia/TheOriginalSoni] has left #wikipedia-en []
12:42 < dtm_> tommorris: correct
12:42 < mareklug> dtm_ sweet!  the end-of-the-road Stuffit Standard 7.0.3 for Mac Os 9.2.2 comes with DropTar, DropZip and DropStuff, as well as Stuffit Expander.
12:42 < dtm_> tommorris: also, WTF.
12:42 < tommorris> but if you come along and you are outside our community, we end up saying you have to send us an email. and then we say you've got to send us a scanned in document proving that the photographer you hired granted you the copyright
12:42 < dtm_> OUTSIDERS.
12:43 -!- Firefly67 [~Firefly67@unaffiliated/firefly67] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:43 < dtm_> undesirables!!
12:43 < nsh> tommorris, fascist.
12:43 < tommorris> ...and what if it is a verbal agreement because, fuck, like most small business transactions, it might not be worth the candle if it were to ever come to court
12:43 < dtm_> tommorris: what if it was a tourist asking a fellow citizen to take a pic on the citizen's camera and email it to the tourist?  verbal contract, volunteer work for hire!
12:43 < nsh> anyone who even humours the possibility of court proceedings wrt to copyright is a fascist-facilitating totalitarian, i can safely say, without hyperbole
12:44 < dtm_> tommorris: let's call the IRS
12:44 < dtm_> tommorris: let's turn them in for tax evasion because the average professional services billing rate for photography exceeds the nominal barter and volunteer rate, so we have to consider the user to be a sole proprietorship
12:45 < dtm_> each photograph of bees in your yard, has a professional services value of $100, and you just uploaded 10 of them in a year, sorry
12:45 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o eir] by ChanServ
12:45 < dtm_> furthermore, you shot them on a DSLR, and mortals are not allowed to own professional quality equipment, sorry
12:45 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-bbo *!*@host86-172-85-134.range86-172.btcentralplus.com *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.14.11.74 eir] by eir
12:45 < tommorris> dtm_: meh, it's a charitable donation to the WMF. tax writeoff.
12:45  * nsh tactically refrains from quoting oscar wilde
12:46 -!- guillom is now known as basile
12:46 < dtm_> tommorris: Because.
12:46 < dtm_> tommorris: BEES.
12:46 < dtm_> tommorris: {{See also|Wookiees on Endor}}
12:46 < dtm_> tommorris: Bears.  Bees.  BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.
12:46 < dtm_> trollolololooo  oh i *am* pleased with myself now.
12:47 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
12:47 -!- IDoH [~IDoH@wikipedia/I-dream-of-horses] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
12:47 < dtm_> tommorris: so how do we escalate this issue?
12:47 < dtm_> tommorris: is this seriously a universally held stupidity?
12:47 < dtm_> in the org
12:48 < tommorris> dtm_: commons policy perhaps. I'd suggest the best way would be if I were to ask a question on Commons. but not tonight. :)
12:48 < tommorris> I'll draft something up and post it on Commons tomorrow
12:49 < dtm_> this is my reply http://pastebin.com/fUYeVfnN
12:49 -!- nas is now known as zz_nas
12:50 < dtm_> that's what i wrote this morning
12:50 < dtm_> and then of course like i said, i asked him to undelete the pic immediately during discussion
12:50 < dtm_> he says yeah sorry we deleted your stuff without any warning.  *click*  Well, then, undelete it now!
12:51 < tommorris> dtm_: it's a bit hyper. I tend to find zen-like calmness is the way to get things done in wikiworld
12:51 < dtm_> if this was a corporate customer service line, i would have this person's management undergo a training issue right now
12:51 < dtm_> tommorris: yes that's exactly what i did
12:51 < dtm_> i calmly thought it all through for him and told him exactly what needs to happen
12:51 < Qcoder00> "Welcome to Wikimedia OTRS, Please be warae that your rants may be recorded for training purposes."
12:52 < Qcoder00> *aware
12:52 < dtm_> Qcoder00: lol
12:52 < Qcoder00> I've had to listen to them MANY times when ringing firms...
12:52 < tommorris> Qcoder00: you joke, but I have passed suitably bonkers ticket IDs on as training for some new OTRS agents.
12:53 < Qcoder00> agents?
12:53 < Qcoder00> ;)
12:53 < dtm_> :-o
12:53  * Qcoder00 suddnely has visions of loads of identical OTRS clones in cubicles...
12:53 < tommorris> Qcoder00: obviously. MI6 trained. License to kill. Shaken not stirred.
12:53 < Qcoder00> "How may I help you? How I may help you?"
12:54 < dtm_> tommorris: i can't imagine how you could think that purely logical, didactic discourse could be considered hyperactive <3
12:54 < Qcoder00> tommorris:  Actually , has MI6 ever edited Wikipedia?
12:54 < Qcoder00> XD
12:54 < Qcoder00> Or can't we be told that :)
12:54 < tommorris> At Wikimania each year, there is a secret black tie gathering of OTRS agents where we distribute all the secret materials for the next year. then smoke cigars and play blackjack.
12:54 < dtm_> he's obstinately coerced me to get more explicitly verbose, unfortunately.
12:55 < dtm_> tommorris: do you have games of "spot the fed"?
12:55 < Qcoder00> tommorris:  Don't forget the Kitten ritual
12:55 < Qcoder00> ?
12:55 < shimgray> tommorris is lying, of course
12:55 < tommorris> Qcoder00: if they have, they are more clever than your average PR agency or Parliamentarian and might actually register a damn account.
12:55 < dtm_> maybe the normal wikipedians need to spot the otrs fed-wannabes
12:55 < shimgray> the secret gathering is informal. the black-tie one is what we let people know about
12:55 < shimgray> ...oh, bugger
12:55 < dtm_> :-o
12:56 < Qcoder00> shimgray: Ah yes , but you have a Tyler to keep people out the realy secret meetings, in which people iniated into the Mysteries of the Sole Architect :)
12:56 < Qcoder00> *are
12:56 < tommorris> shimgray: hush, or next year, you'll end up being Miss Moneypenny.
12:56 -!- juliancolton [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Juliancolton] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:56 < Qcoder00> black tie event?
12:57 < Qcoder00> What do the girls wear?
12:57 < shimgray> you say that, but it's clear who always ran that operation
12:57 -!- zz_nas is now known as nas
12:57 < Qcoder00> Surely you don't expect full evening wear?
12:57 < tommorris> Qcoder00: evening gowns.
12:57 < tommorris> Qcoder00: also, given there are no girls on Wikipedia, that's never really been an issue.
12:57 < Qcoder00> Huh
12:57 < Qcoder00> There are plenty of 'women' on Wikipedia!
12:58 < tommorris> Your terminology, honey.
12:58 < dtm_> :-o
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13:00 -!- addhorse is now known as addshore
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13:01 -!- Carly|away is now known as Carly
13:02 -!- LtNOWIS-mobile [~LtNOWIS@mb05736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:02 < Qcoder00> tommorris:  I meant real as well as 'actresses' XD
13:02 < dtm_> tommorris: the fact that wikimedia polices the content like this is, in itself, an unnecessary legal problem.  this means they're not a common carrier; they are a global censor.
13:03 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:03 < dtm_> tommorris: community access TV stations don't do this, for just that reason
13:03 < Carly> hi :)
13:03 < dtm_> they can't be held responsible and liable for the content.  this whole debacle is their needlessly proactive assertion that they *are*.
13:04 < dtm_> this is what one would call a really really bad idea
13:04 < dtm_> Carly: hi!
13:04 < dtm_> Carly: and hola.
13:04 < Carly> what's up?
13:04 < tommorris> dtm_: actually, legally, not the case. OTRS is community run.
13:04 < dtm_> tommorris: please make a note to include that in your comments
13:05 < dtm_> tommorris: what's that meant to mean?
13:05 < tommorris> the Foundation's Section 230 protection is not in danger because you email OTRS and an admin does something dickish
13:06 < dtm_> you're saying that an email footer disclaimer cancels out any legal consequences of actively upheld policies of which the wikimedia foundation is aware?
13:06 < tommorris> OTRS is staffed by volunteers and administered by volunteers
13:06  * Carly bored
13:06 < dtm_> Carly: you gave up, huh?
13:06 -!- Sarrus [~Sarrus@wikipedia/Sarrus] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:06 < tommorris> the email footer disclaimer doesn't cancel it out. the email footer actively reflecting the reality of how OTRS operates is what matters. ;)
13:07 < Carly> dtm_ give up? what are you talking about?
13:07 < dtm_> Carly: :-I
13:07 < Carly> dtm_ ?
13:08 < Qcoder00> tommorris:  Have you been following the row about porn sites in the UK?
13:08 < dtm_> tommorris: so legal culpability doesn't exist, because they don't want it to.  okay.
13:09 < dtm_> Carly: you and i have been having a conversation for three days.
13:09 < Carly> dtm_ we? a talk? for three days? when?
13:09 < tommorris> dtm_: what legal culpability are you referring to exactly? there is legal culpability *for the volunteers*, not for the Foundation
13:09 < Carly> ???
13:10 -!- contempt [contempt@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
13:10 < tommorris> dtm_: same as it currently is with Wikipedia. if I go on to a BLP and slander that person, they can sue me, but not the Foundation.
13:10 < Qcoder00> Erm
13:10 < Ironholds> they can sue the foundation
13:10 < dtm_> tommorris: yeah, because you wouldn't be acting under actively published and upheld policy, of which the organization is inherently aware.
13:10 < Ironholds> we'll just laugh at them and blow raspberries
13:11 -!- Lacon432 [62c3a681@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.195.166.129] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:11 -!- Bradford [kvirc@unaffiliated/bradford] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:11 < Qcoder00> Actually does Wikipedia constitute a 'publisher'?
13:11 < Ironholds> Qcoder00: for UK purposes, yes.
13:11 < Ironholds> UK purposes can bite us.
13:11 < dtm_> Qcoder00: that'd be determined in court if nothing else!
13:11 < tommorris> dtm_: actually, I might be. I know the BLP policy pretty well, and I'm sure I could find something that is both libel in my country (UK) but not a BLP violation
13:11 < Ironholds> dtm_: er, more precisely, the organisation does not write, operate and enforce guidance, pre-screen contributions, that sort of thing.
13:11 < tommorris> maybe libelling a company
13:11  * Carly sighs...
13:12 < Ironholds> edit count is an int. Excellent.
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13:12 < dtm_> Ironholds: yeah but they're aware of it, and it's all done explicitly using their resources.
13:12 < Ironholds> dtm_: aware of what?
13:12 -!- Ks0stm [~Ks0stm@wikipedia/Ks0stm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:12 < dtm_> Ironholds: aware of the policy
13:13 < Ironholds> yes, but that's irrelevant.
13:13 < dtm_> wellp.  says you ;)
13:13 < Ironholds> by that standard the WMF would have been sued into the ground /already/
13:13 < Qcoder00> So someone editing the article of  Sir Toryslime to point out his 'unproven' involvment in an illegal arms deal could get the WMF into trouble then?
13:13 < Ironholds> Qcoder00: not in the slightest.
13:13 < dtm_> these are things we don't want to test in court
13:13 < Ironholds> the only possible way the WMF could become liable was if we were explicitly and officially informed of the libel, and kept it there.
13:13 < Ironholds> dtm_: we did test it in court.
13:13 < Ironholds> we won.
13:13 < dtm_> oic
13:14 -!- Ks0stm [~Ks0stm@wikipedia/Ks0stm] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:14 < dtm_> Ks0stm: hi
13:14 < Lacon432> Hello?
13:14 < SigmaWP> oh, hi Ironholds
13:14 < Ironholds> dtm_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2008-07-07/Defamation_suit_dismissed
13:14 < Ironholds> hey SigmaWP
13:14  * tommorris is generally rather confident in the abilities of Wikimedia legal, although he has managed to outsmart them once. ;)
13:14 < dtm_> Ironholds: like i said, that's categorically different but ya know, whatever
13:15 < Ironholds> dtm_: I may have missed the start of the conversation :)
13:15 < Ironholds> *scrolls*
13:15 < Lacon432> I need help for a copyright tag for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ASongAcrossWires.jpg
13:15 < tommorris> Ironholds: we were discussing whether OTRS Commons dickeryishness would threaten common carrier status for Commons
13:15 < tommorris> which seems a stretch
13:16 < Ironholds> you mean: volunteers who don't represent us and aren't appointed by us and aren't run by us? yeah, no.
13:16 < tommorris> Commons OTRS agents being unreasonable doesn't threaten the Foundation, it just makes Commons admins seem like dicks.
13:16 < dtm_> Ironholds: no it's what i just said to you.  OTRS is an institution which holds special privilege explicitly granted by WMF, explicitly using almost exclusively WMF's resources, acting under policies explicitly published and known by the WMF.  this is not a libelous passerby or an individual.
13:16 < Ironholds> Seriously, I'm not even sure if we have any staffers who are admins on OTRS-wiki.
13:16 < Ironholds> dtm_: what policies, and how?
13:16 < Ironholds> we set up the software. the institution is self-governing.
13:16 < dtm_> Ironholds: the policies about how to manipulate content and challenge copyright and such
13:16 < Ironholds> we have official content manipulation policies now?
13:17 < dtm_> it can be self-governing but it isn't self-hosting
13:17 < Ironholds> last time I checked the only WMF-mandated copyright-related policy was the fair use rules.
13:17 < tommorris> dtm_: nope, OTRS is managed independently by OTRS admins. the policies it enforces are on-wiki policies decided by, say, Wikipedia and Commons
13:17 < shimgray> dtm_, couldn't you say the same about Commons, though? the admins hold special privileges granted by WMF (delete, block), using WMF resources (the site), policies known to the WMF (copyright, etc)
13:17 < tommorris> dtm_: "self-governing but it isn't self-hosting" covers... all the Wikimedia projects.
13:17 < Ironholds> and, for that matter....almost all websites, ever.
13:17 -!- user2534958999 [46b3a1e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.161.230] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:17 < Ironholds> heck, I doubt HuffPo has a sever room staffed with bearded sysadmins
13:17 < Ironholds> *server
13:17 < dtm_> okay well i'm just airing my concerns and i'm listening, so oh well
13:18 < Ironholds> dtm_: in regards to my above link; self-governing but not self-hosting, as said, applies to all projects
13:18 < Ironholds> if that was a factor in Section 230 evaluations the case wouldn't have been dismissed, I suspect :)
13:18 < shimgray> I will agree that large amounts of WP/Commons users are, by their irritatingness, an indirect threat to the site's continued existence :-)
13:18 < mareklug> dtm your much maligne iCab is working wonderfully in tandem with Stuffit 7.03 as far as getting stuff safely over ftp and unpacking it, no tar, macgzip, zip, gunzip or binhex needed.
13:18 < dtm_> shimgray: lololol
13:18 < tommorris> dtm_: the analogy here is suggesting that a grand constitutional issue exists because some beat cops are being dicks.
13:18 -!- Lacon432 [62c3a681@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.195.166.129] has left #wikipedia-en []
13:18 < dtm_> mareklug: vaaaaantastic
13:19 < dtm_> tommorris: i suppose i'm still unclear as to whether they're just being jerks or whether they're following an official policy which is stupid!  lol
13:19 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@209.243.37.82] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:19 < dtm_> tommorris: i await his response
13:19 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@209.243.37.82] has quit [Changing host]
13:19 -!- Guerillero [~Gueriller@wikipedia/Guerillero] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:19 < tommorris> dtm_: either way, fixable through local consensus.
13:20 < dtm_> tommorris: is there no escalation process per ticket?  can't i say "please let me speak to your manager" ;)  or to another peer
13:20 < dtm_> mareklug: and is it all pretty fast?
13:20 < shimgray> there's no handling-levels in OTRS, so no escalation
13:20 < shimgray> (though I know of cases where it's been "escalated" by the responder, to try and defuse a clash)
13:21 < mareklug> dtm one thing that is incredibly swift is the booting/rebooting.  i mean, it is amazing, liek 3 secones
13:21 < dtm_> shimgray: so it's all one-on-one?  one outside user per one inside user, per ticket?
13:21 < tommorris> dtm_: nope. you can go and find another OTRS agent and say "could you give me a second opinion"
13:21 < mareklug> secondes
13:21 < dtm_> mareklug: whoa.
13:21 < mareklug> seconds
13:21 < dtm_> tommorris: and how would i do that in OTRS's process?  do you just mean i go scavenging, like i did?  or is there a web site for that?
13:21 < shimgray> dtm_, generally speaking, one person picks up the ticket and handles it from then on, unless they give up and/or hand it over to someone else
13:22 < tommorris> dtm_: nope. most OTRS cases don't require it.
13:22 < dtm_> tommorris: probably not.
13:22 < Qcoder00> shimgray, Ironholds: Did you see the posting at VP about a presumption to delete images of kids?
13:22 < shimgray> one ticket doesn't always map to one correspondent, but we try and keep them together as otherwise it gets too confusing for everyone
13:22 < dtm_> it's probably either pretty simple, or the public user gives up.
13:22 < tommorris> that said, if I were to get an OTRS ticket where someone repeatedly demonstrated their unhappiness wiht my response, I'd probably nudge another OTRS agent to take it over
13:22 < Qcoder00> My inital proposal that there should be a presumption to delete images of people not of majority age without a release got resolutrely trashed as expected...
13:22 < dtm_> tommorris: we have a blatantly sad panda here.
13:22 < shimgray> (interestingly, if you write to us on the same ticket # three years later, you'll probably get the same person)
13:23 -!- Son_Gohan [~nnscript@wikipedia/The-Thing-That-Should-Not-Be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:23 < Qcoder00> However some other issues got raised, and your feedback would be appreciated
13:23 -!- Carly is now known as Carly|away
13:24 < dtm_> shimgray: dedication.
13:24 < dtm_> Qcoder00: weird.
13:24 < shimgray> dtm_, more the way our notifications work :-)
13:24 < tommorris> dtm_: not really. it's more that the ticket gets assigned to you unless you explicitly detach it
13:24 < Qcoder00> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Policy_Change_.28Images_of_minors.29
13:24 -!- Moskau [~chatzilla@wikipedia/deskana] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]]
13:24 < Qcoder00> Feeback wanted
13:25 < dtm_> tommorris: one volunteer for three years is dedication
13:25 < Qcoder00> I don't mind what opinions you hold
13:25 < shimgray> dtm_, I've been handling OTRS since Jan 06 (albeit not very much over the past year)
13:25 < dtm_> shimgray: well done
13:25 -!- thineantiquepen is now known as TAP|away
13:25 < shimgray> for some reason, we seem to get the long-running users
13:26 -!- Carly|away [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has quit [Quit: Carly|away]
13:26 -!- thineantiquepen [~thineanti@wikipedia/Thine-Antique-Pen] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:26 < dtm_> shimgray: you have to be half nuts, just to start
13:26 < dtm_> so.  i wanna try it.
13:27 < shimgray> Qcoder00, my initial reaction would be "what's the point of having this policy on enwp, not Commons?"
13:27 < GorillaWarfare> What, OTRS?
13:27 < Qcoder00> shimgray
13:27 < Qcoder00> Well I was considering that
13:27 < Qcoder00> Or Meta
13:29 -!- IDoH [~IDoH@wikipedia/I-dream-of-horses] has joined #wikipedia-en
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13:30 -!- lbenedix [~lbenedix@g225045218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:30 < shimgray> having an image-focused policy on en, where that policy focuses on uploading rather than use, is not going to achieve much
13:31 -!- Carly [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:32 -!- Son_Gohan [~nnscript@wikipedia/The-Thing-That-Should-Not-Be] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:33 < darev> n8
13:33 -!- darev [~darev@p54AA84E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
13:34 < tommorris> shimgray: lies. German Wikiquote instituted a "no pictures of badgers" policy a few years ago. nobody has yet attempted to upload a picture of a badger. must work.
13:34 < Ironholds> what
13:34 < shimgray> if that is not true, I am relying on you to make it so
13:34 < dtm_> :-o
13:35  * tommorris smirks generally in Ironholds' direction.
13:36 -!- Jetro [~UserNick@53.211.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:36 < Ironholds> shimgray: by foundation mandate? I don't even have +staff
13:39 -!- user2534958999 [46b3a1e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.161.230] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
13:40 < IDoH> Oh, look. We're using Voxelbot again.
13:44 < dtm_> do we like voxelbot?
13:45 < IDoH> We used CBNG for a bit. We don't trust Voxelbot to report vandalism.
13:46 -!- Jasper_Deng is now known as Jasper_Deng_away
13:46 -!- ragesoss_ [~quassel@pool-74-98-210-132.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:46 -!- nas is now known as zz_nas
13:46 -!- Theo10011 [~Theo10011@wikimedia/Theo10011] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:48 < IDoH> Well, report the LEVEL of vandalism
13:49 -!- Jeske_Couriano_ [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:50 < dtm_> IDoH: from my personal perspective, cluebot seems to kick a fair amount of patootie.
13:51 < IDoH> dtm_: Same here.
13:51 < dtm_> and a930913 is a CVU animal
13:51 < IDoH> You think CBNG can be used to assess the level of vandalism, thouhg.
13:51 < dtm_> i can smell what he's got a-cookin'
13:51 < IDoH> Am I a CVU animal? ;-)
13:51 < dtm_> i dont know!  i guess so!  maybe i forgot!
13:51 -!- Jeske_Couriano [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:51  * dtm_ pats IDoH 
13:51 -!- Jeske_Couriano_ is now known as Jeske_Couriano
13:51 < Carly> can someone help me?"
13:51 < dtm_> you can be an animal too <3
13:51 < IDoH> Ha! Ha ha!
13:52 < Carly> ?
13:52 < dtm_> Carly: aren't you beyond help though? <3 <3 <3  what's up
13:52 < tommorris> is Cluebot NG off again? I thought all that drama had been resolved
13:52 < IDoH> I'm a CVU animal?
13:52 < dtm_> IDoH: do you wanna be?
13:52 < Carly> I need help but in pm.
13:52 < IDoH> I mean, I'm a CVU horse/
13:52 < IDoH> tommorris: It's kicking vandals' rear just fine. :-)
13:52 < dtm_> IDoH: not just any animal, naturally
13:53 < dtm_> the next step is to have bots writing wikipedia, please
13:53 < dtm_> who's working on that?
13:53 < IDoH> dtm_: Impossible!
13:53 < dtm_> let's get a task force up
13:54 < dtm_> It is time.
13:54 < dtm_> IDoH: we HAVE the TECHMOLOGIE!
13:54 -!- Jeske_Couriano [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has quit [Client Quit]
13:54 < IDoH> dtm_: {{cn}}
13:55 < dtm_> oic
13:56 < dtm_> patent pending
13:56 < Bradford> David_Stevenson: feo
13:56 < dtm_> Qcoder00: did you say that you were the one who proposed the policy change about images of minors?  if so, you DID open a can of worms
13:56 < dtm_> "the policy proposal is meaningless (not even "flawed")"    n i c e
13:57 < dtm_> insane vaguery
13:58 < Bradford> David_Stevenson:  "carly no te ama porque erez feo"
13:59 < Bradford> David_Stevenson:  carly does not love you because you're ugly
13:59 < IDoH> Does SineBot have my talk page on /ignore?
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14:03 < dtm_> tommorris: what you have terms "dickishness" has escalated.
14:04 < dtm_> he's going for the prize.
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14:05 < BobTheWikipedian> ahoy there
14:05 < Qcoder00> dtm_:Yes I suggested Wikipedia shuld preumse to delete certain images...
14:06 < BobTheWikipedian> as always, i come here seeking knowledge
14:06 < dtm_> tommorris: http://pastebin.com/zcXxjGLb
14:06 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:06 < Qcoder00> The responses have once again confirmed the response I expected to get :)
14:06 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: and therefore, you are most heartily welcomed and well met
14:06 < BobTheWikipedian> ah good
14:07 < dtm_> Qcoder00: and so have you learned why you necessarily got that response, and thus to not abuse the community as such anymore?  ^_^
14:07 < Qcoder00> I put forward a proposal
14:07 < dtm_> Qcoder00: did you ever end up thinking your proposal through, and totally rewriting it?
14:07 < BobTheWikipedian> i am strongly considering switching from my $40/mo plan with verizon to a $20/mo plan with republic...but what concerns me is my home is right in the middle of an "off-network roaming" area
14:07 < dtm_> did you see how utterly impossible it is
14:07 < Qcoder00> I put in a more narrowly worded version later in the thread...
14:07 < dtm_> Qcoder00: okay i didn't read the whole thing.  i read quite a bit!
14:08 < Qcoder00> dtm_:  If you are saying it would be unworkable that's reasonable, but I'd appreciate you saying so in the thread...
14:08 -!- TParis [~TParis-PC@wikipedia/TParis] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:08 < dtm_> Qcoder00: well, i'll have you know that the only reason i read the issue was to credit your good natured volunteerism, intending to contribute in the thread if i could.
14:09 < dtm_> Qcoder00: so maybe i'll do that if i read more
14:09 < BobTheWikipedian> so my question for all those who might know is how that would affect my calls
14:09 -!- TParis [~TParis-PC@cpe-24-243-23-129.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:09 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: so, do you know how impossible that is to answer?
14:10 < BobTheWikipedian> no
14:10 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: {{See also|how long is a piece of string?}}
14:10 < BobTheWikipedian> lol
14:10 < dtm_> it's pretty long.  unless it's not.  or something.
14:10 < BobTheWikipedian> what factors should i include then
14:11 -!- TParis [~TParis-PC@cpe-24-243-23-129.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host]
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14:11 -!- TOS [TOS@wikipedia/TheOriginalSoni] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:12 < dtm_> you should include a comprehensive professional topological survey of the company's network
14:12 < dtm_> you forgot that part
14:12 < BobTheWikipedian> well they use the sprint network
14:13 -!- JKL1234- [AlmostLive@pear.bnc4free.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:14 < BobTheWikipedian> printing the screen and uploading...
14:14 < dtm_> :-o
14:15 -!- Jasper_Deng_away is now known as Jasper_Deng
14:15 -!- Adminsux [b8170939@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.23.9.57] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:15 < BobTheWikipedian> http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4964/91696982.png
14:16 < BobTheWikipedian> scale is included
14:16 -!- Adminsux is now known as newnick
14:16 -!- newnick is now known as Sigiheri
14:17 < BobTheWikipedian> forgot to mark my house, but it's in the middle of the rightmost light green blob
14:17 < dtm_> so.  yeah.  what do you want anyone to do about it?
14:17 < dtm_> are you asking whether there are signal boosting products?  or what
14:17 < Sigiheri> !admin
14:17 < BobTheWikipedian> wellllll you said that would make it possible to answer the question
14:18 -!- DivT [~Umut@c83-251-213-231.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -]
14:18 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: i didn't say *that* ;)
14:18 < Sigiheri> I wish to be unblocked.
14:18 < Sigiheri> !admin
14:18 < BobTheWikipedian> no i am asking whether it would be a wise choice to go with a phone network that has my home in an "off-network roaming" area
14:18 < GorillaWarfare> Sigiheri: This is not the place to ask. Stop spamming the stalkword.
14:18 < BobTheWikipedian> sigiheri there's an unblock channel somewhere
14:18  * BobTheWikipedian looks for it
14:18 < Sigiheri> No one is there.
14:18 < GorillaWarfare> BobTheWikipedian: Xe's already joined.
14:18 < BobTheWikipedian> lol
14:18 < Guerillero> #wikipedia-en-unblock
14:18 < GorillaWarfare> And I've already declined the unblock
14:19 < addihockey10_>                                                                                                        
14:19 < addihockey10_> hey everyone
14:19 < addihockey10_> :-)
14:19 < Sigiheri> what?
14:19 < BobTheWikipedian> well now if mommy says no, do you go ask daddy?
14:19 < GorillaWarfare> Hey addihockey10 :)
14:19 < TOS> My bad everyone
14:19 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: i might not do that, but there are products you can get for your house which will route your calls over the internet.  a microcell as they call it.
14:19 < TOS> I asked him to come here
14:19 < TOS> As nobody was responding at the unblock channel
14:19 < GorillaWarfare> TOS: Yeah... don't do that :P
14:20 < Sigiheri> So this Admin, Gorrillawarfare has denied the unblock
14:20 < TOS> GorillaWarfare I believe your last decline was more than an hour ago, right?
14:20 < Sigiheri> what a waste
14:20 < BobTheWikipedian> yeah this is one of those, actually. but i wouldn't want to rely too heavily on that feature, so this is probably the wrong phone for me :P
14:20 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: they run $100-200, and they can use external antennas so that you could stick it in your attic and aim it out your window or something.
14:20 -!- tttb [~tom@host-78-149-33-2.as13285.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:20 < BobTheWikipedian> thanks dtm_ :D
14:20 < GorillaWarfare> TOS: Huh?
14:20 < BobTheWikipedian> lol
14:20 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: i mean i've seen those for AT&T so i assume they exist for other networks
14:21 < BobTheWikipedian> heh i am the starving substitute teacher with medical issues so i'll opt out of that extra expense :D
14:21 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: still, depending on your phone, one bar is good enough.  i've gotten 1Mbps download on 1 bar of AT&T on an iphone 4 stuck in a window.
14:21 < IDoH> TOS, please don't ever do that again. There's a reason why there's a special channel for unblocks. If we're admins and don't go there, we don't want to deal with the disruption inevitably caused by social incompetence, bad faith, or both. If we're not admins, there's nothing we can do.
14:21 < BobTheWikipedian> eh but i use a phone mostly for voice calls
14:21 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: yeah this is one reason why people pay more for Verizon
14:22 < BobTheWikipedian> indeed.
14:22 < TOS> IDoH Ok.
14:22 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian:  people other than me!  i have sprint.
14:22 < BobTheWikipedian> lol
14:22 < GorillaWarfare> TOS: What about the one hour ago thing?
14:22 < GorillaWarfare> TOS: I don't understand what you were asking
14:22 < BobTheWikipedian> i wonder if sprint would put up a tower if i wrote them
14:23 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: but yeah it's tough to pass up the savings of prepaid networks.  also note that the prepaid provider probably only uses Sprint's core network, and not roaming partners.
14:23 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: you'd have to ask the prepaid provider
14:23 < BobTheWikipedian> oooo good point
14:23 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: i know that's the case with Virgin Mobile
14:23 < dtm_> there are a lot of variables involved.  for some people, it's really worth it and for others, it's really not
14:24 -!- Wiki13 [~Wiki13@wikimedia/Wiki13] has quit [Quit: While there's life, there's hope.]
14:24 < a930913> IDoH: I talked to a VoxelBot owner, and we revised the levels.
14:24 < IDoH> a930913: Good :-)
14:24 < IDoH> I guess we can trust it now.
14:25 < a930913> IDoH: I still think it's often wrong and mostly retarded.
14:25 < IDoH> a930913: Please don't say "retarded".
14:25 < IDoH> But you mean Voxelbot is often wrong?
14:25 < dtm_> ... do we have a censorship blacklist?
14:25 < a930913> IDoH: I mean it in it's genuine use.
14:26 < a930913> IDoH: As in the results are slow to come out.
14:26 < BobTheWikipedian> now i have enough info to update the article on republic :D
14:26 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: well done
14:26 < IDoH> a930913: Still, please don't say "retarded" unless you are talking about a PERSON who is diagnosed as mentally retarded.
14:27 < a930913> Because due to the half hourly updates, the stats can come half an hour too late.
14:27 < BobTheWikipedian> {{cite interview|source=dtm_|date=2 Jun 13|time=21:26 UTC|channel=Freenode IRC}}
14:27 < dtm_> IDoH: that's a totally irrational thing to tell someone.  that doesn't make any sense.
14:27 < dtm_> fyi
14:27 < IDoH> dtm_: What's irrational?
14:27 < dtm_> IDoH: see also: the english language
14:27 < dtm_> what you just said, start to finish
14:27 < a930913> IDoH: "Retardation is the act or result of delaying; the extent to which anything is retarded or delayed; that which retards or delays."
14:28 < dtm_> lrn2vocab
14:28 < TOS> Any real number which cannot be shown as p/q, where p and q are both integers is called irrational
14:28 < BobTheWikipedian> idoh that's where the top number is larger than the bottom
14:28 -!- Gnumarcoo [~marco@wikipedia/Gnumarcoo] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:28 < dtm_> TOS: noted.
14:28 < Shirik> the binary form of 0.1 is irrational
14:28 < BobTheWikipedian> oops tos is right
14:28 < IDoH> dtm and a930913: "Also derogatory slang for stupid". lrn2urbandictonary.
14:29 < BobTheWikipedian> lol
14:29 < TOS> you're the cube root of two!
14:29 < a930913> IDoH: Take back the words from their slang by using them in their proper context.
14:29 < dtm_> IDoH: that's ridiculous.  dont ever expect anyone to comply with such a zealously controlling abuse of language <3
14:29 -!- Moskau [~chatzilla@46-64-89-33.zone15.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:29 -!- Moskau [~chatzilla@46-64-89-33.zone15.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Changing host]
14:29 -!- Moskau [~chatzilla@wikipedia/deskana] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:30 < BobTheWikipedian> also: Irrationality is cognition without rationality. lrn2rationalwiki.
14:30 < dtm_> lrn2noturbandictionary
14:30 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: noted.
14:30 < a930913> from lrn2 import *
14:30 < dtm_> :-o
14:30 < IDoH> a930913 and dtm_ : Don't you realize that word has painful and triggering memories for many, many people, including myself?
14:30 < Qcoder00> Anyone here spare?
14:30 < Qcoder00> I was wondering if someone could help author something
14:30 < IDoH> a930913: It's beyond taking back.
14:30 < BobTheWikipedian> this no-milk-no-pork-no-corn diet is gonna starve me
14:31 < TOS> Qcoder00 Ask away
14:31 < dtm_> IDoH: dont you realize the abusive fallacy of affirmative action
14:31 < a930913> IDoH: So because others have misused the word around you, that prevents us from using it correctly?
14:31 < IDoH> a930913: Yes. It should.
14:31 < dtm_> IDoH: sorry someone else hurt you
14:31 < Qcoder00> Is it possible to have a 'desk page' for user space?
14:31 < TOS> I will never be able to look at root 2 with a clear conscience again
14:31 < Qcoder00> That puts things like Watchlist, notifcationsetc on a frame layout?
14:32 < dtm_> TOS: it's going to be okay, man.  we'll all learn to heal.   ...someday.
14:32 < IDoH> dtm_: I wasn't talking about affirmative action. I was talking about language.
14:32 < BobTheWikipedian> dtm_ how is the fallacy of affirmative action abusive?
14:32 < a930913> IDoH: Well that's gay.
14:32  * a930913 runs.
14:32 < dtm_> IDoH: that's the problem.  talk about language.  and get rational.
14:32 < Qcoder00> a930913:  You write bots?
14:32  * TOS gasps
14:32 < dtm_> or at least non-counter-abusive to innocent people
14:32 < a930913> Qcoder00: Nuclear powered ones are the best.
14:32 < Qcoder00> I think there should be a WikiProject Automation
14:32 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: i just said how
14:32 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: also, it's self evident
14:33 < Qcoder00> That seeks to automate the routine tasks that don't need a human decision
14:33  * BobTheWikipedian abuses the fallacy
14:33 < IDoH> a930913: You deserve to be whaled.
14:33 < dtm_> BobTheWikipedian: the fallacy can take it!
14:33 < IDoH> a930913: And "gay" isn't unsalvageable like "retarded".
14:33 < BobTheWikipedian> abuse failed
14:33 < Qcoder00> The BRFA deals with requests but there isn't AFAIK an ongoing project to identify 'automatabl tasks'
14:33 < BobTheWikipedian> NOT TRUE!
14:34 < BobTheWikipedian> retarded is quite salvageable
14:34 < dtm_> IDoH: you are speaking total nonsense, and it's advised to abandon the attempt <3 <3 <3
14:34 < IDoH> dtm_: "Get rational"? C'mon, everyone thinks of "mental disability" when they hear "retardation".
14:34 < dtm_> no, they dont.  you're not everyone.
14:34 < IDoH> dtm_: I am NOT talking total nonsense.
14:34  * BobTheWikipedian is retarded
14:34 < IDoH> dtm_: Yes, they do.
14:34 < tommorris> Dear #wikipedia-en: not wanting to be called a retarded faggot is not affirmative action, it is basic human decency.
14:34 < dtm_> poor poor BobTheWikipedian.
14:34 < IDoH> BobTheWikipedian: Stop that.
14:34 < IDoH> Thanks, tommorris
14:34 < BobTheWikipedian> i am!
14:34 < Qcoder00> I think there should be a project to identify tasks for automation, so that the backlogs that need a human decision aren't clogged up with automatable botable stuff
14:34 < Qcoder00> Thoughts?
14:34 < IDoH> No, seriously, BobTheWikipedian. I think you think it's a joke.
14:34 < tommorris> Qcoder00: is there not a Bot requests page.
14:35 < dtm_> tommorris: nobody did that.  that never happened.
14:35 < BobTheWikipedian> stop what?
14:35 < Qcoder00> There is
14:35 < TOS> I think Idoh doesnt think BobTheWikipedian thinks its a joke
14:35 < Qcoder00> But it's post-active, not pre-emptive
14:35 < BobTheWikipedian> i think idoh lost me
14:35 < a930913> Let's be depressed by talking about how the word "marriage" is now unsalvageable.
14:35 < tommorris> Whatevs. Be nice, kids. ;)
14:35 < Shirik> why does Wikipedia show me Aあ in the top right hand corner?
14:35 < Shirik> Is this what it shows to everyone or is it just because I've messed around on jpwiki?
14:35  * dtm_ headbutts a930913 amicably
14:35 < Qcoder00> Personally , I think some things done regularly by bots , show up things that should be software features personally
14:35 < addihockey10_> Shirik: er, what
14:36 < BobTheWikipedian> shirik in case あ makes more sense to you
14:36 < Qcoder00> Like propogating redirected image titles
14:36 < BobTheWikipedian> in which case you should click it
14:36  * a930913 uses hydro blast on dtm_.
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14:36 -!- JKL1234- [AlmostLive@trivialand/player/JKL1234-] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:36 < Shirik> just wondering if it shows for everyone or just certain people
14:36 < dtm_> ha douuuu ken!!!
14:36 -!- tttb [~tom@host-78-149-33-2.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Fare thee well]
14:36 < a930913> Qcoder00: Bot stuff is too per basis for general automation.
14:36 < shimgray> Shirik, is this on enwiki, commons, wikidata...?
14:36 < IDoH> I don't see it, Shirik
14:37 < Shirik> http://gyazo.com/703093d9e46017855d3129269722b0d5
14:37 < Shirik> enwiki
14:37 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:37 < Qcoder00> s930913: Hmm
14:37 < shimgray> commons + wikidata = it's the new (& fairly neat) interface language selector tool
14:37 < Qcoder00> This was about having a project to identify bot-able tasks
14:37 < Shirik> oh I lied
14:37 < Shirik> apparently I was looking at a meta page
14:37 < shimgray> enwiki = no idea, maybe you enabled something by accident?
14:37 < shimgray> aha :-)
14:37 < addihockey10_> that'd explain a lot
14:37 < addihockey10_> also
14:37 < addihockey10_> Shirik: PM?
14:37 < a930913> Qcoder00: Which probably isn't such a bad thing, otherwise bots and their owners would have taken over wikipedia long ago :p
14:38 < shimgray> yeah, langselect. play around with it, it's quite neat
14:38 < shimgray> (and easy to set back to en)
14:38 < Shirik> why is japanese not common
14:38 < a930913> Qcoder00: I don't know too much about projects tbh.
14:38 < Shirik> but is in the image
14:38 -!- Seahorse [~Seahorse@wikipedia/Seahorseruler] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:38 < shimgray> I think we do some geolocation for "common"
14:39 < shimgray> meta currently offers me Welsh and Gaelic, for example
14:40 < BobTheWikipedian> yeah the other day i used it to set my no-wiki language to bokmal
14:40 < BobTheWikipedian> just to see if i could do it
14:40 -!- mareklug [~mareklug@wikipedia/mareklug] has quit [Quit: mareklug]
14:40 < shimgray> ULS
14:40 < shimgray> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UniversalLanguageSelector
14:41 -!- Beria [~Beria@wikimedia/Beria] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:41 < tommorris> geolocation for language is unnecessary
14:41 < tommorris> your browser sends a nice header called Accept-Lang:
14:41 < tommorris> parse that shit and use it
14:41 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@pool-173-67-179-136.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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14:41 < shimgray> yeah, assuming you know how to work that, and you've been able to set your machine settings
14:42 < tommorris> my computer knows I speak English because the UI is in English.
14:42 -!- harej [~quassel@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:42 < shimgray> but it's good enough to make a first guess at "you're more likely to want something local"
14:42 < tommorris> there's no reason why when I'm in a Dutch hotel, pages ought to be in Dutch
14:42 -!- Sigiheri [b8170939@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.23.9.57] has left #wikipedia-en []
14:42 < tommorris> when I've sent the server a header saying I want English
14:42 < shimgray> tommorris, no, but equally no reason we should assume all users of Dutch internet cafes should be always given Dutch
14:43 < shimgray> that said, note this isn't geolocation of the language we give you, it's of the languages we prioritise in the selector
14:43 < tommorris> ah, that's reasonable
14:43 < dtm_> tommorris: http://pastebin.com/zcXxjGLb  did u c
14:43 < shimgray> if you're in Amsterdam, it's fair you're more likely to want French or German before Swahili or Malay
14:43 < Shirik> tommorris: But maybe some of us like to keep our UI in an incomprehensible language!
14:43 < BobTheWikipedian> back in 07 or so i was told by the japanese wiki that my desired username "Bob the Wikipedian" was blacklisted
14:44 < BobTheWikipedian> interestingly, it wasn't because "wikipedia" was in it
14:44 < dtm_> tommorris: i'm going to take a wikisiesta for a while today, and come back and try to read enough to join OTRS at some point
14:44 < dtm_> again.
14:44 < BobTheWikipedian> rather, because "bob" was in it
14:44 < tommorris> dtm_: "I'm just trying to be literal". Literal isn't necessarily a good thing.
14:44 < dtm_> tommorris: oic
14:45 < dtm_> tommorris: how do we *not* be literal when asking for a citation of policy?
14:45 -!- Beria [~Beria@186.212.98.69] has joined #wikipedia-en
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14:45 -!- Beria [~Beria@wikimedia/Beria] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:45 < BobTheWikipedian> unified login fixed that problem, thankfully :D
14:45 < dtm_> tommorris: how are we criticizing stuff that's obviously correct?
14:45 < tommorris> literalism is a step towards fundamentalist. and fundamentalist is the first step towards standing outside soldiers funerals holding up signs saying "THANK GOD FOR PUNISHING FAG AMERICA"
14:45 < dtm_> :-I
14:45 < dtm_> rrrriiiight.
14:45 < BobTheWikipedian> um
14:46 < tommorris> ;)
14:46 < dtm_> tommorris: aaaaaand.  alrighty, then!
14:46 < BobTheWikipedian> subliminal messaging?
14:46 < Shirik> BobTheWikipedian: Maybe because of Bobobo bo bobobo
14:46 < dtm_> tommorris: so like i was sayin about that wikisiesta.... *clobbers tommorris with a frying pan*  sleeeeeep!
14:46 < dtm_> shhhhhhhhh!!
14:46 < BobTheWikipedian> lol shirik
14:46 -!- mareklug [~mareklug@wikipedia/mareklug] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:46 < dtm_> mareklug: my gosh man, status report!!!
14:47 < dtm_> mareklug: i've been without my status on the virtual powermac and appleshare for several minutes now
14:47 < Shirik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobobo-bo_Bo-bobo
14:47 < Shirik> For those that missed the reference
14:47 -!- nas is now known as zz_nas
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14:48 < dtm_> tommorris: it seems highly likely that our dear devout public volunteer has engaged his mind in power struggle mode in denial of a stack of personal mistakes.  so.  wikisiesta.
14:49 < BobTheWikipedian> haha
14:49 < tommorris> AGF, darling.
14:49 -!- Carly [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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14:51 < mareklug> Current Version: Textual 3.0.3 (Build #2014)
14:52 < mareklug> legoktm ^
14:52 < BobTheWikipedian> i wonder if burger king will let me order my whopper on a tortilla
14:53 -!- Carly- [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:53 < mareklug> BobTheWikipedian isn't that a wrap?
14:54 < BobTheWikipedian> not if it has a beef patty
14:55 < TOS> mareklug, hey
14:58 -!- YE|NBA2k12 is now known as YE|AFK
14:58 < BobTheWikipedian> woah. office 2013 does not make the X button turn red when you hover over it
14:59 < BobTheWikipedian> it violates the look and feel of windows 8
15:00 < tommorris> Windows 8 is just a screensaver mode for Windows 7, right? ;)
15:00 < BobTheWikipedian> haha
15:00 < BobTheWikipedian> it steals your start menu, too
15:00 < GorillaWarfare> BobTheWikipedian: Steal it back! Show it who's boss!
15:01 < BobTheWikipedian> haha nah i'm trying to adapt
15:01 < BobTheWikipedian> survival of the fittest right?
15:01  * GorillaWarfare nods
15:01 -!- Migrant [~frankski@ti0095a380-0854.bb.online.no] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:02 < mareklug> TOS hi, Calcutta girl shopper
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15:04 < mareklug> dtm_ things have turned dire and inexplicable.  After unpacking PageMaker or rather during, the system froze (the emulator) and never ran again.  Examining the content of the disk showed completely unpacked PageMaker folder on the desktop -- I have since moved it to applications folder on an off chance that it being on the desktop was unacceptably large or some cruft like that.  But whatever I do, including logging out, trashing the install
15:04 < mareklug>  and installing again, the thing won't run.  I will try rebooting next and reinstalling fresh from zip file.
15:05 < IDoH> mareklug: You're using a Windows emulator?
15:05 < Jasper_Deng> wine, probably
15:05 < mareklug> no, I am using a Mac OS 9.04 emulator running on Intel iMac
15:06 -!- Carly- [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )]
15:06 < mareklug> just as I got it good and configured and populated with my main app, it won't run.
15:07 < mareklug> IDoH it is called COI, or Classic On Intel
15:07 < IDoH> Okay
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15:09 < TOS> hey mareklug
15:10 < mareklug> dtm_ another thing occurred to me, as I happen to have an external firewire connected, to install on the external Mountain LIon and boot into it and see if it is any better.
15:10 -!- pakaran [~pakaran@184-8-87-188.dsl1-pixley.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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15:11 < tommorris> I wouldn't ever want to go back to pre-OS X.
15:11 < tommorris> much as I loved the interface, the lack of pre-emptive multitasking made it fucking painful to use
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15:13 < jorm> i hate the ram usage profile in macs pre os-x
15:14 < mareklug> jorm btw, the ftpd mystery solved.  I went back to installing "ftpd" from repository and then simply doing "ftp localhost" started the deamon, wherever it was hidden.
15:14 < jorm> well, there you go.
15:15 < jorm> i hope you disabled it immediately after using it.
15:15 < mareklug> jorm this is PPC implementation of Debian, so it is unusually crufty.  For instance, simple drag and drop does not work in Thunar
15:15 < mareklug> across network
15:15 < mareklug> it says "Not implemented"  lol
15:16 < tommorris> also, the way I use Macs has changed somewhat since OS X came out. now, about 40% of my time is in a terminal or Vim, 50% is in Firefox and 10% is in email.
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15:16 < mareklug> jorm I have a hardware outside VPN firewall, Netgear FVS388/switch/dhcp server.  How about I close the port 21 to outside?
15:16 < tommorris> draggy-droppy hippy-dippy shit gone, just command line nerdery
15:16 < jorm> yeah, that would work.
15:17 < jorm> kill it at the router.
15:17 < mareklug> and it is a nice ancient router at that.
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15:22 < mareklug> jorm and done.  such a nice web interface to the thing.   "FTP, inbound, Block always, WLAN"
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15:34 < Qcoder00> Can anyone here recomend and English Usage guide that is out of copyright?
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15:46 < Pine> Qcoder00: are you sure you'd want one that old?
15:47 < Pine> What about MoS?
15:47 < Qcoder00> Pine: It's so I can transcribe on Wikisource at some future date
15:47 < Qcoder00> And feed stuf back into MoS
15:47 < Pine> I wouldn't want to use a guide that old as an authority for MoS
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15:56 < GorillaWarfare> <3 Qcoder00
15:56 -!- lukas23 is now known as lukas|away
15:56 < Qcoder00> Hi GorillaWarfare  - About wikisource thing
15:56 < Qcoder00> Can I have a word in the other channel>?
15:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> word... :p
15:58 -!- p858snake|l [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:59 < TOS> The bird is the word
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16:10 < mareklug> jorm  I picked this up for $10 (also got a GS108 gigabit switch to go with it, but so far no power supply brick; they are working on getting me one):  http://documentation.netgear.com/fvs338/enu/202-10046-03/pdfs/FullManual.pdf
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16:15 < Pine> Heh
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16:16 < Pine> Does anyone in here have a prosumer camera BTW?
16:16 < Pine> I'd like some camera advice
16:16 < Pine> I'm thinking about a Nikon D7100
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16:16 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug shall I panic?
16:17 < mareklug> just don't go to Instanbul.
16:19 < Pine> ToAruShiroiNeko: why would you panic?
16:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> tear gas
16:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug sure but its spreading to brussels and etc too :p
16:20 < Pine> There is tear gas in Brussels? What did the European Parliament do now?
16:20 < ToAruShiroiNeko> not in brussels
16:20 < SigmaWP> mareklug: "Just don't go to Constantinople" fits with the tune of the song
16:20 < ToAruShiroiNeko> the protests in istanbul seems to be spreading internationally
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16:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> SigmaWP the protestors would certainly disagree
16:21 < mareklug> SigmaWP I did think of the song...
16:21 < mareklug> oddly enough
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16:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQrKZcYtqg
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16:23 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug should I toss tear gas in my own garden?
16:23 < mareklug> ToAruShiroiNeko I suggest you shed a tear.  You can also pass some gas.
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16:24 < mareklug> and voila, tear gas, belgian edition.
16:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hmm
16:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> they are using brazilian tear gas tho
16:24 < mareklug> tear gas you can dance to!
16:25 < mareklug> samba pa ti
16:25 < Swob> i like how i can start reading a comment and know from the start that it's Ironholds writing because his writing style is so distinctive
16:25 < Ironholds> Swob: it is?
16:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds for Swob everything has its own style
16:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> :p
16:26 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:26 < Pine> Swob: how would you describe Ironholds' style?
16:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug if you can survive it sure
16:26  * Pine is thinking of how Starbucks describes its coffees these days
16:27 < mareklug> dtm_ I got my emulator back.   oddly enough, I reinstalled the original vanilla SheepFucker.  And what I got instead is …the pirates' bay edition with my preserved state.  The great pirate in the sky smiled on me.
16:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug I am seeing a nation-wide DDoS attack btw
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16:28 < Pine> ToAruShiroiNeko: where?
16:28 < UnknownNinjaNN2> I was wondering if anyone was willing to discuss this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2/sandbox
16:28 < Swob> i cant really explain it in words
16:28 < Son_Gohan> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/06/seat-of-power-the-computer-workstation-for-the-person-with-everything/
16:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Pine Turkey
16:28 -!- GW|Away is now known as GorillaWarfare
16:28 < Swob> and yeah, its not just Iron
16:28 < Swob> i can tell a lot of people just by what they write
16:29 < Pine> Swob: apply for CU, that talent will be useful
16:29 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Hello?
16:29 < Pine> UnknownNinjaNN2: what is your question about that sandbox?
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16:29 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Do you want to discuss the subject?
16:30 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Of the article.
16:30 < Pine> I'm not sure what the subject is. Are you asking how to get it approved for mainspace?
16:30 < UnknownNinjaNN2> No, I mean the game it is about.
16:31 < NotASpy> UnknownNinjaNN2: you wasted how many minutes of your life writing about that ?
16:31 < Pine> NotASpy: let's be nice :)
16:31 < Swob> hi ninja
16:31 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:31 < Pine> UnknownNinjaNN2: no thank you but Swob sounds interested.
16:32 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug is "Bathe in tear gas" a good tourisim slogan?
16:33 -!- Bradford is now known as Simon_
16:34 < NotASpy> sounds OK, ToAruShiroiNeko. It's presumably a better destination than "Try recreating the Wizard of Oz in real life" which must surely by Oklahoma's slogan at the moment.
16:34 < Pine> ToAruShiroiNeko: it would attract journalists.
16:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Journalists within the country are reporting on penguins than whats happening
16:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I supopse it makes sense since people are watching it live off their windows anyways
16:35 < NotASpy> P-p-p-p-pick up a penguin. Chocolate biscuits are important, ToAruShiroiNeko
16:35 < Pine> I'm waiting for the day the AP has its own surveillance satellites.
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16:39 < a930913> Does anybody here know the insides of twinkle at all?
16:40 < Swob> i think its made of cream
16:41 < a930913> I'm trying to pack/send some extra variables to the warn talk page after reverting some vandalism.
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16:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> NotASpy it is easier to watch whats happening on Turkey on CNN Interational rather than CNN Turk
16:47 -!- Ks0stm [~Ks0stm@wikipedia/Ks0stm] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
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16:47 < Swob> CNN has a turkish version?
16:48 < ScientificAlan> Hello people
16:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Swob you do not even know that?
16:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> link os on the bottom of edition.cnn.com
16:49 < ToAruShiroiNeko> *is
16:50  * ScientificAlan wonders if the ground will be their friend
16:50  * ScientificAlan hits the ground
16:52 < Krenair> Hi ScientificAlan
16:52 < Krenair> Re your message in #wikipedia - shouldn't that page note how the subject is notable as well?
16:52 < ScientificAlan> Oh, yeah
16:52 < ScientificAlan> It's not notable at all, from what I read
16:57 < Swob> i didntk now they had TV in Turkey
16:57 < Swob> i thought it was all camels and people in tents
16:57 < Swob> and turkeys of course
16:57 < Swob> everyone knows turkey comes from Turkey
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17:00 < Swob> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PolandBall.gif
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17:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Swob I hope you get hit by tear gas :p
17:07 < addihockey10_> GorillaWarfare: build benchmarks http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/12fqK/benchmarks/
17:07 < GorillaWarfare> Wooo
17:08 < mareklug> addihockey10_ ddi you get my memoserved link from 2 days ago?
17:08 < addihockey10_> mareklug: what was it again?
17:08 -!- YE|AFK is now known as YE
17:08  * addihockey10_ thinks it was a chip;
17:08 < addihockey10_> i can't remember
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17:09 < mareklug> addihockey10_ $390.  Has the specs of the HP monitor that I showed you for 750 -- the iMac equivalent screen (if not the ports):  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=114&cp_id=11401&cs_id=1130704&p_id=10509&seq=1&format=2
17:09 < addihockey10_> ah right.
17:10  * addihockey10_ isn't/wasn't interested in such a screen
17:10 < mareklug> this is the least expensive good monitor I know of.
17:10 < mareklug> addihockey10_ and did you see the TigerDirect Haswell sale with motherboard combos?
17:11 < addihockey10_> mareklug: yes, but i'm going with Ivy bridge.
17:11 -!- martijnHH [~MartijnH@wikipedia/Martijn-Hoekstra] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug so do pink cables work or did they not arrive yet
17:11 < mareklug> they are still trucking from Ontario, California.
17:11 < mareklug> http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?track.x=0&track.y=0&InquiryNumber1=1zy511170390573456
17:12 < ToAruShiroiNeko> btw protestors captured an escavator and is chasing away police armored anti-riot vehicles
17:12 < mareklug> addihockey10_ and what is the reason for going with Ivy Bridge?  cost?
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17:13 < addihockey10_> Haswell doesn't bring much to desktops
17:13 < addihockey10_> and i won't be upgrading until at least the new socket comes out
17:13 < Jasper_Deng> addihockey10_: it's quad-cores probably won't
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17:13 < Jasper_Deng> but it will have 8-cores
17:13 < addihockey10_> so I went with the 3770k
17:13 < Jasper_Deng> there's also hardware support for nested virtualization w/ Haswell (again, a nerdy thing that only mareklug and a few others would be interested in)
17:14 < ScientificAlan> well hello
17:14 < mareklug> addihockey10_ I think you are overlooking other great things about Haswell, including the accelerated more capable onboard video and power consumption reduction.
17:15 < Jasper_Deng> the power consumption is a bonus w/ every new Intel architecture
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17:15 < Jasper_Deng> however, I don't think he really cares about the video, b/c he has a dedicated card anyways
17:15 < addihockey10_> we all know that intel's graphics are crap to begin with, so integrated graphics really doesn't help;
17:15 < mareklug> Jasper_Deng the smart architecture uses the onboard video and switches to the card for more intensive rendering.
17:15 < mareklug> addihockey10_ you are an idiot.
17:16 < addihockey10_> i think my graphics card is more than enough.
17:16 < Jasper_Deng> mareklug: actually I have to side w/ addihockey10_ on this - onboard video sucks /when "sucks" is as relative term
17:16  * Jasper_Deng forgot the closing /
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17:16 < Jasper_Deng> not something worth extra $$ IMO
17:16 < mareklug> the onboard video in Ivy Bridge is adequate to 805 of all user needs.  And the new stuff is 4 times as fast.
17:17 < addihockey10_> intel's graphic's are legendary for being absolute garbage.
17:17 < mareklug> 80%
17:17 < kylu> Having integrated graphics is nice if you're having issues with your graphics card, at least.
17:17 < addihockey10_> maybe
17:17 < addihockey10_> but /me isn't spending more money for that
17:17 < Jasper_Deng> I mean, the /difference/ between Ivy Bridge and Haswell won't be /that/ noticeable, by your argument, mareklug.
17:18 < mareklug> Jasper_Deng why don't you read up on it first.
17:18 < Jasper_Deng> I've heard of much news about Haswell's integrated graphics
17:18 < Jasper_Deng> to which I just yawn
17:19  * Jasper_Deng has liked Intel CPUs longer than he has liked Windows, fwiw.
17:19 < kylu> also, non-gaming systems can use integrated graphics fine... Intel's been HD-capable since 2009 or so.
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17:19 < kylu> X4kHD series.
17:20 -!- Logan_ [~Logan@ubuntu/member/logan] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
17:20 < Jasper_Deng> the thing is, addihockey10_ is intending to game w/ it
17:20 < kylu> So, windows and watching netflix/amazon prime/hulu, maybe some angry birds and plants vs. zombies.
17:20 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hmm
17:20  * Jasper_Deng uses his graphics memory mainly to virtualize
17:20 < addihockey10_> ew
17:20 < addihockey10_> kylu: tpb
17:20 < addihockey10_> :-)
17:21 < kylu> addi: I call that "my amazon prime extended library"
17:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> 3 life threatening injuries :(
17:21 < kylu> though, more movie2k (yeah, I know, but it's still cached in google) than tpb lately.
17:21 < ScientificAlan> I have to go, bye
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17:22 < kylu> also, second box handy for looking things up (level maps, f'instance) while gaming on first monitor.
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17:23 < Jasper_Deng> Windows can do up to 64 monitors.
17:23 < ToAruShiroiNeko> why would anyone need 64?
17:24 < kylu> 64 is enough for anybody.
17:24 < Jasper_Deng> http://www.cinemassive.com/products/video-wall/
17:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> ah! 64 bit graphics on 64 monitors <3
17:25 < Swob> i think every pixel should have its own monitor
17:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> like skyscraper art?
17:25 -!- foks [~sup@wikipedia/fox] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> each window is a screen <3
17:26 < kylu> Need reflectorless LCD panels, then layer them for layered 3D.
17:28 < Jasper_Deng> I've been yearning for the day we had holographic monitors
17:28 < Jasper_Deng> whose resolutions would be measured with 3, not just 2, dimensions.
17:30 < addihockey10_> actually
17:30 < addihockey10_> mareklug: I'm going with haswell
17:30 < Jasper_Deng> addihockey10_: I thought you ordered everything
17:30 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:31 < addihockey10_> Jasper_Deng: 'cept for the mobo and cpu
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17:31 < mareklug> addihockey10_ you are more fickle than a bride planning a wedding
17:32 < addihockey10_> mareklug: oh well
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17:38 < mareklug> addihockey10_ maybe you'll graduate to a 2440px-wide IPS monitor, as well
17:39 < addihockey10_> mareklug: no.
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17:43 -!- dekiss [~dekiss@77.29.142.2] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:43 < dekiss>  I am making website and for some sections I want to literally copy paste whole articles from wikipedia can I do this is this legal?
17:43 < dekiss> for which license I should search which license will let me copy paste whole article on my website for free? if there is such
17:43 < dekiss> I find it useless to rewrite something that whole world agreed on.. its liek reinventing the wheel, and I think wikipedia is best at such subject like mine where I am making project and I need to put a lot of information on it
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17:46 < Ironholds> dekiss: you can do it, but you must provide attribution and say it came from wikipedia
17:46 < Ironholds> however, you must also use a copyright license that is compatible with wikipedia's copyright license, such as the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike (CC-BY-SA) 3.0 license.
17:47 < dekiss> Ironholds yeah I would do that without requirement :)
17:47 < dekiss> ok
17:47 < mareklug> anybody remembers how to rebuild a desktop in Mac OS 9 to get the icons back?
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17:47 < dekiss> Ironholds how you mean to ue license
17:47 < dekiss> you mean articles that I will take must have such license?
17:47 -!- Logan_ is now known as Guest5998
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17:47 < Ironholds> dekiss: the articles that you take will have the license; all Wikipedia articles do.
17:47 < mareklug> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2344?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
17:47 < Ironholds> But anything you write based on the Wikipedia articles must also have such a license.
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17:48 < dekiss> Ironholds I really think Wikipedia  should have some api with iframe for embeding articles in websites..
17:48 < dekiss> something liek youtube videos
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17:48 < dekiss> why you guys dont make such thing?
17:48 < dekiss> it will be super easy to make :) but super usefull
17:48 < dekiss> for people
17:48 < Ironholds> dekiss: we have an API that exports article text. If you mean 'why do we not do it automatically', that would be for two reasons
17:49 < dekiss> I think this is very good idea please take in mind
17:49 < Ironholds> firstly, articles are stored in wikimarkup and then converted to HTML
17:49 < Ironholds> we would have to build an API that exports the HTML.
17:49 < Ironholds> secondly, the idea of enabling people to very easily suck our bandwidth seems counterintuitive ;p. We do not allow live mirrors.
17:49 < dekiss> Ironholds ok I got it :) that with licenses I didn't uinderstood at first what you ment
17:49 < Ironholds> (let me find the explanation, hangon)
17:50 < dekiss> you are right :)
17:50 < Ironholds> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirror#Remote_loading here we are
17:50 < dekiss> well put adsense and get rich heehe
17:50 < dekiss> joke :)
17:50 < dekiss> hmm
17:50 < nas> what is the thanks thing
17:50 < Ironholds> nas: thanks is a feature that lets you send a notification to a user who has made a good edit, thanking them for said edit.
17:51 < nas> uh
17:51 < dekiss> if you ask me I will agree to see google ads on your pages but have iframe api
17:51 < dekiss> to put your articles on my website
17:51 < dekiss> :)
17:51 < nas> I accidentally clicked it
17:51 < dekiss> so that is soem balance
17:51 < nas> when I was wanting to revert.
17:51 < nas> whoops
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17:51 < Ironholds> dekiss: not really; we are morally opposed to ads on wikipedia
17:51 < Ironholds> nas: yeah, we're looking at building a two-stage process.
17:51 < dekiss> Ironholds yeah i understand it will increase your bandwidth skyhigh
17:52 < nas> oh well
17:52 < dekiss> but put google ads :)
17:52 < TParis> Dekiss: You could just page scrap it with some javascript and an ajax object.
17:52 < dekiss> put your own ads seriously
17:52 < TParis> <-- Snorts some beans
17:52 < dekiss> that will be catastrophic honestly but still
17:52 < Ironholds> dekiss: noo
17:52 < Ironholds> it's not because ads would rocket our bandwidth
17:52 < Ironholds> it's because we are morally opposed to them ;p
17:52 < dekiss> if yo uask me i woulkd agree to see adds on wikipedia but also to have iframe api and such things
17:52 < Ironholds> there's absolutely no correlation between those two features.
17:52 < dekiss> liek more updated content better features
17:53 < Ironholds> we are not not building an API that servers iframes filled with HTML because we lack money.
17:53 < dekiss> nor wikipedia is bad today its best thing in todays world if you ask me
17:53 < dekiss> cummulation of human knowledge free and open
17:53 < Ironholds> Well, strictly speaking, we are, but only in the sense of "would you like to buy us lots more datacentres"
17:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> cummulation of human knowledge never had such an API before
17:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> say whatever of 1800s, everyone agrees their API sucked!
17:54 < dekiss> <TParis> Dekiss: You could just page scrap it with some javascript and an ajax object. HAHa
17:54 < TParis> Dekiss: It's doable.
17:55 < kylu> The API wasn't so bad, it's just the search function and indexing were terrible, and the latency was horrific.
17:55 < TParis> I've got a script that scrapes a Wikinews article twice a day.
17:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu perhaps
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17:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> they didnt have tear gas either
17:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> gotta have tear gas
17:56 < dekiss> Ironholds my idea was this, give people iframe api, put ads, pay bandwidth with ads income
17:56 -!- armufox [~armucat@ip70-180-118-213.no.no.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:56 < dekiss> i will agree to see ads if you offer features liek this api iframe
17:56 < TParis> Dekiss: It's not a money thing.  Wikipedia simply does not want to use ads, ever.
17:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis and forevermore
17:57 < TParis> Ads violate our central tendant to remain neutral and we don't feel that we can do that other than by donations only.
17:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> wikipedia is a public library where advertisements have no place.
17:57 < TParis> Exactly.  You don't go into a library, open a book, and get hit with a bid to spend money on page 2.
17:57 < Jasper_Deng> Even donations may sometimes get us in trouble w/ respect to neutrality (at least potentially), for large donations
17:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> "What kind of an encyclopedia advertises Toyota on an article on Ford or vice versa?"
17:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> "Britannica, apparently. :)"
17:58 < dekiss> I agree with you totally
17:58 < Jasper_Deng> this very IRC network operates on the very same principles
17:58 < dekiss> I was just having bad idea in my head
17:58 < dekiss> still I am for iframe api but not FOR ADS never!
17:58 < dekiss> dont put ads pls that is plain bad
17:58 < dekiss> that is what I really think
17:58 < Ironholds> okay. right.
17:58 < dekiss> but bandwidth will be the problem yes
17:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> few things gets the entire community as engaged as the suggestion of ads.
17:59 < Swob> maybe ads on a mirror/user shell could be a backup plan
17:59 -!- armufox [~armucat@ip70-180-118-213.no.no.cox.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:59 < Swob> if the main server goes down, use the ad-supported one
17:59 < Ironholds> I'm pretty sure that I can solve our community toxicity problem in 30 seconds
17:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Swob yeah we had that since 2006
17:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds with tear gas?
17:59 < Swob> Ironholds is that how long it would take to lock the database?
17:59 < Ironholds> all I need to do is have Sue announce that we're going to filter all images, and replace the profane ones with ads served from facebook
17:59 < Ironholds> the resulting series of massive coronaries would totally eliminate any rude editors by totally eliminating any editors.
17:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds why from facebook
18:00 < Ironholds> FACEBOOKIFICATION
18:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds just post zynga games wherever needed
18:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> "to see this penis you need to win over 9000 levels"
18:00 < dekiss> guys
18:00 < dekiss> are there paid jobs in Wikipedia?
18:01 < TParis> yes
18:01 < TParis> Ironholds has one
18:01 < Jasper_Deng> paid for by donations
18:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> yes, wikimedia does have a skeliton staff
18:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> by that I dont mean that they are actual skellitons
18:01 < dekiss> I would love to work on Wikipedia
18:01 < dekiss> but I have to eat too :DD
18:01 < dekiss> hehe
18:01 < Jasper_Deng> you /do/ get to eat
18:01 < Jasper_Deng> as long as the world keeps donating to the foundaitn
18:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dekiss wikipedia jobs pay over 9000 money
18:01 < kylu> ToAruShiroiNeko: if they were paid less, they might be.
18:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu true
18:02 < Ironholds> ToAruShiroiNeko: this is, very strictly-speaking, true.
18:02 -!- Carly [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:02 < Ironholds> kylu: we're pretty much at that level already
18:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds shhh
18:02 < dekiss> 9000 money what is this?
18:02 < Ironholds> here's how my last annual review went:
18:02 < Ironholds> "We love it! you're doing great work. Also, budgets are tight, so enjoy a 25 percent pay cut"
18:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we all know wikimedia staff works on board a stealth aircraft carrier with free sodas
18:02 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: the WMF doesn't have much money
18:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> what more does one need?
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18:03 < dekiss> hm
18:03 < dekiss> solution - all countries put minmal tax to all people to pay to wikipedia
18:03 < dekiss> result - 80% of people in world will aggree..
18:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> umm, we have that in europe for intellectual property
18:03 < dekiss> why this is no real - you tell me ?
18:04 < dekiss> I see Wikipedia project should and must end up there
18:04 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: then the WMF would become affiliated with one or more governments
18:05 < dekiss> this is best thing that has happened to earth in last few hundred years
18:05 < Jasper_Deng> and that would kinda compromise our neutrality
18:05 < Ironholds> that's actually not my primary concern
18:05 < Ironholds> my primary concern is we'd do dumb shit with the money.
18:05 < Jasper_Deng> ^
18:05 < Ironholds> you really don't want to give a tiny non-profit hundreds to thousands of millions of dollars
18:05 < dekiss> Ironholds agree
18:05 < ToAruShiroiNeko> wikimedia is a non-profit organization, we are staffed by the people we work for he people
18:06 < Ironholds> suddenly every single pipe dream is totally something we can afford to do.
18:06 < dekiss> its hard to decide how to spend money
18:06 < Carly> hi
18:06 < Ironholds> I much prefer, in some ways, a fiscally restricted environment, where all the ideas monkey-knife-fight it out
18:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds dumb shit like wikimania on board the ISS/
18:06 < Ironholds> ....no, that's totally smart
18:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> <3
18:06 < Ironholds> I volunteer to be part of the organising committee
18:06 < Ironholds> by which I mean: I would like to go up there for 3 months. fact-finding expedition, obvs
18:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds youd even pay for it :p
18:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> haha!
18:07 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we need a wikimedia attachment on board the ISS
18:08 < dekiss> I really think that Wikipedia owner Jimmy Wales is the creator of this magic
18:08 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Jimmy Wales doesnt own anything
18:08 < dekiss> I am 100% sure he won hardest battles in life so if you give him 10000 trilions $ that will change nothing..
18:08 < dekiss> I am really afraid what after him.. that is real concern
18:09  * kylu wonders what would happen if TPB funded a packet-based satellite fileserver.... global filesharing that would take a launch to knock out of orbit.
18:09 < Jasper_Deng> Wikimedia's current efficiency w/ respect to money is incredible
18:09 < Jasper_Deng> and I really admire it.
18:09 < Ironholds> Jasper_Deng: most of the time we're great ;p
18:09 < dekiss> when its not about the money its just not about the money..
18:09 < Ironholds> dekiss: he doesn't run us.
18:09 < Ironholds> he's an emeritus member of the board, that's it.
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18:09 < dekiss> he is owner?
18:09 < dekiss> who is owner?
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18:09 < Jasper_Deng> We operate the world's sixth-most-popular website with only 3 datacenters.
18:09 < Ironholds> we don't have an owner, we are a non-profit.
18:09 < dekiss> whoever is the owner then I see he is founder no?
18:09 < Jasper_Deng> of only a few hundred servers at the most
18:09 < Ironholds> yup.
18:09 < dekiss> sry I don;t know these thigns
18:09 < Ironholds> the executive director is sue gardner. She's neat.
18:09 < dekiss> but I know there is someone (at least one ) in charge
18:10 < dekiss> and made all possible
18:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> wikimedia projects are owned by the Wikimedia foundation which is run by a board
18:10 < Ironholds> strictly-speaking, actually, the person in charge of the WMF is mindspillage (who isn't online. Damn.)
18:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> ultimately we all own wikipedia
18:10 < dekiss> you know how hard choices he had to make? wikipedia is only prject that is I MEAN IN TOP 3?! worldwide and has fucking ZERO ADS
18:10 < dekiss> hah
18:10 < dekiss> that takes GUTS my friends
18:10 < dekiss> you know he had chances to make trilions $?
18:10 < dekiss> and resist that?
18:10 < dekiss> respect!
18:11 < Jasper_Deng> exactly
18:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> the only hard choices we have to make is trying to decide what is netural in controversial topics
18:11 < dekiss> get on your knees before him we all should :)
18:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> than and minor syntax issues
18:11 < Ironholds> dekiss: you'd have to bend quite a way, he's a total shortarse
18:11 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: we sometimes call Jimmy Wales our "benevolent dictator"
18:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> jimmy wales didnt make all that much with his previous encyclopedia attempt
18:12 < ToAruShiroiNeko> the sucess of wikipedia is entirely based on its userbase
18:12 < mareklug> dtm_ partial success:  PageMaker opens and is ready for work in the emulator.  The speed of it opening is breathtaking as compared to a IIci or even a Powerbook 1998.  But the documents unpacked in an unrecognizable way so it won't open them.  Got to rework that part.
18:12 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds can we have Wikimedia flavored tear gas?
18:13 < Swob> i wonder what would happen if the US government proposed funding Wikipedia with, say, $200 million a year
18:13 < dekiss> my suggestion delete controversial topics
18:13 < dekiss> where its hard to be neutral
18:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dekiss sure so you are saying we should delete the article on 9/11 then
18:14 < Jasper_Deng> Wikipedia isn't a paper encyclopedia though
18:14 < dekiss> there is so many so important subject on wikipedia that subjects like these arent necessery
18:14 < kylu> graft, corruption, budget cutbacks, closure of the project when Congress initiates a 5% spending cut.
18:14 < Jasper_Deng> our goal is to assemble information
18:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> yeah who cares about 9/11
18:14 < dekiss> don't blow your head in desk to decide what to write for lets say 9/11
18:14 < dekiss> just delete that subject
18:14 < dekiss> due to sensitive matter
18:14 < Jasper_Deng> our encyclopedia is the world's biggest by far, and not just b/c lots of editors contribute.
18:14 < dekiss> dont write about things such like this
18:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dekiss you are probably just a troll... so I am going to ignore this
18:14 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: Wikimedia is a /very/ diverse website.
18:14 < dekiss> noone needs that
18:15 < Ironholds> ToAruShiroiNeko: alas, no.
18:15 < Jasper_Deng> /anything/ will prove controversial to /someone/, dekiss
18:15 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds we had a series of newbie pretenders here for a few days now
18:15 < Jasper_Deng> this is characteristic of /any/ global community like ours
18:15 < Swob> maybe dekiss is actually a wikipedia arbitrator just playing devil's advocate
18:15 < kylu> Jasper_Deng: Balut (egg)
18:15 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:15 < Swob> hi ninja
18:16 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Ironholds I am rather suprised at the amount of tear gas people can endure
18:16 < kylu> Would love to see a conspiracy article regarding balut.
18:16 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: I was also going to mention that, partly due to that, Wikipedia isn't censored.
18:17 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Would anyone like to discuss the game that this article is about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2/sandbox
18:17 < dekiss> I saw that you becoming like news media and encyclpedia
18:17 < dekiss> I am honestly more for encyclopedia
18:17 < jbroome> UnknownNinjaNN2: since you asked two hours ago?
18:17 < dekiss> don;t \go into poilitics and such
18:17 < dekiss> subjects like 9/11
18:17 < dekiss> go for science
18:18 < dekiss> believe in good science peopel good
18:18 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: the 9/11 attacks have also had extensive physical analysis
18:18 -!- nas is now known as zz_nas
18:18 < Jasper_Deng> like, exactly why the towers fail.
18:18 < Swob> oh hey
18:19 -!- Carly [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )]
18:19 < Swob> i played your game Ninja
18:19 < Swob> its not really my type of game
18:19 < Swob> i prefer side scrollers
18:20 < UnknownNinjaNN2> It is not my game, but... Oh, I see nevermind.
18:20 < dekiss> hm
18:20 < dekiss> wekll just write then, what happened
18:20 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: it's important for us to be inclusive
18:20 < dekiss> and there was controversy about it
18:21 < Jasper_Deng> there's controversy, even in science, about almost everything.
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18:21 < Jasper_Deng> you can't write an encyclopedia for today's world w/o including controversy.
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18:21 < dekiss> I love you because yo uare inclusive
18:21 < dekiss> on all subjects
18:21 < Farby> hi
18:21 < dekiss> I am just saying don't be so inclusive on subjects like 9/11
18:21 < dekiss> and such controversal subjects
18:21 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: that's simply not fair
18:21 < dekiss> so you dont go in trouble
18:22 < Jasper_Deng> what defines "controversial"?
18:22 < dekiss> and have clear consencies
18:22 < dekiss> lol I faken mispeled that
18:22 < dekiss> sry my eng is not native
18:22 < dekiss>  and have clear conscience*
18:22 < Jasper_Deng> consensus, you mean?
18:23 < dekiss> people today world is strange place to live
18:23 < dekiss> and you are right
18:23 < dekiss> you cant ignore that
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18:24 < dekiss> well I mean don't mention any personal opinions on what happened on 9/11
18:24 < dekiss> just say a lot of people think us did it
18:24 < dekiss> :S
18:25 < dekiss> just say .. the truth!
18:25 < dekiss> and yo uwill win
18:25 < Jasper_Deng> you won't ever see a history textbook w/o quotes
18:25 < dekiss> on personal and all level
18:25 < dekiss> folow your heart say the truth
18:25 < dekiss> ..
18:25 < dekiss> then say the faken truth
18:25 < dekiss> say what you think
18:25 < dekiss> or dont say anything man
18:26 < dekiss> coz peopel lost lifes there..
18:26 < dekiss> we must respect that
18:26 < dekiss> I am amd I wasn't borned 2000 years in future..
18:27 < dekiss> mad*
18:27 -!- DaveDial [~AmHack99@76-248-201-50.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:27 < dekiss> we deserve to live in better society
18:27 < dekiss> as people
18:27 -!- TParis [~TParis-PC@wikipedia/TParis] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
18:27 < nsh> speak for yourself
18:27 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: again, though, this simply can't happen in today's world.
18:28 < dekiss> nsh I live in pretty much ideal world
18:28 < dekiss> coz I made it
18:28 < Jasper_Deng> lol
18:29 < dekiss> on local level i mean
18:29 < SigmaWP> dekiss: The world is shitty in South America
18:29 < SigmaWP> I think that's a bug?
18:29 -!- TParis [~TParis-PC@cpe-24-243-23-129.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:29 < SigmaWP> Anyway, fix it please
18:29 -!- DaveDial [~AmHack99@76-248-201-50.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:29 < Farby> stop talking about South America
18:29 < dekiss> i think today's world is far far behind what we deserve to get an ideal world
18:29 < Farby> :|
18:30 < SigmaWP> Public rapes in Brazil?
18:30 < SigmaWP> Eh
18:30 < dekiss> capitalism..
18:30 < dekiss> whats next?
18:30 < dekiss> what you think
18:30 < dekiss> coz this cant be much good
18:31 < mareklug> Chicago is punishing the Kings 4-0 in second period of game 2 (Chicago won game one)
18:32 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: an "ideal" world means different things to different people.
18:32 < Jasper_Deng> This is why we have politics.
18:32 -!- UnknownNinjaNN2 [638cc8a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.140.200.160] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:32 < dekiss> Jasper_Deng yo uare totally right
18:32 < Jasper_Deng> and this is why we have controversies and terrorism.
18:32 < dekiss> yep
18:32 < Jasper_Deng> Wikimedia must serve all of the world.
18:32 < dekiss> and everything.. bad
18:34 < dekiss> I am dieing to know where humanity will go in next 1000-2000 years
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18:35 < dekiss> all people agree on one world government then someone eventually will get power wh is evil enough and will enslave the world and eventually put an end pf the world?
18:35 < mareklug> still 4-0.  should have been 5-0 as it hit the goal post on a breakaway
18:35 < dtm_> < kylu> 64 is enough for anybody. <-- well done.
18:38 < dtm_> tommorris: regarding pre-10 Mac OS, i agree but i'd sure totally love me a rainbow Apple menu and platinum dressings.  and window shade.  WHY??  WHY, COWARDS, WHYYYY
18:38 -!- Jacnoc [~Joshua@c-50-140-179-141.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dekiss the onlyhting everyone agrees is that people never agree on anything.
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18:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> protests will enter day 7 tomorow...
18:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> woha
18:39 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: in Turkey?  :(
18:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> yes
18:40  * Farby 
18:40 < dtm_> dekiss: that's basically the story of the antichrist, culminating in armageddon, as foretold by the prophet Daniel
18:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> 1000 more arrests seems to be the case
18:40 < dtm_> for whom I am named.
18:40 -!- josue [~canaima@186.94.9.191] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ do you prophicise end of times?
18:40  * Farby prays for Israel
18:41 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: i personally just have periodic dreams about it ^_^ in various forms
18:41 < dtm_> once, it was an avalanche.  dodging seriously huge boulders, like q-bert.
18:41 < mareklug> 4-1
18:42 < dekiss> man I would love to work for such project take minimal wage and talk to such people -_-
18:42 < dekiss> if place available pls msg me
18:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ any tear gas?
18:42 < dekiss> I can even clean editor's monitors too :)))) heheh
18:42 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: i haven't forseen that yet!
18:42 < dtm_> dekiss: will do!
18:43 < dtm_> aye aye, cap'n
18:43 < dekiss> I have bad feelings about Turkey protests
18:43 < dekiss> IM close to turkey :S
18:43 < dtm_> dekiss: what country are you in?
18:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ so your future sight is no better than an 8ball globe? :p
18:43 -!- TParis [~TParis-PC@cpe-24-243-23-129.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host]
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18:43 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: 8-balls are pretty pessimistic, right?  yeah i think so ;)
18:44 < dtm_> i got a prophetic attitude problem
18:44 -!- Jacnoc [~Joshua@c-50-140-179-141.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:44 < dtm_> it's a bum rap!
18:44 < dtm_> SPOILER ALERT:  GOD WINS
18:44 < dtm_> so.
18:44 < dekiss> well dtm
18:45 < dekiss> religion should be one of your main lifelong subject for thinking on
18:45 < dekiss> ;)
18:45 < dekiss> big beng also
18:45 < dekiss> math and phpysics laws
18:45 < dtm_> dekiss: yeah.
18:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> umm
18:45 < dekiss> if you are man
18:45 < dekiss> if yeah then tell me dtm_
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18:45 < dekiss> you believe in god?
18:46 < dtm_> "The question of whether Wikipedia should have an article on itself has been raised many times before, and the answer is definitely yes." -- [[Talk:Wikipedia]]
18:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> God is a controversial topic
18:46 < dtm_> lol
18:46 < dtm_> dekiss: yeah.
18:46 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: yeah.
18:46 < dekiss> haha I saw wikipedia has article on itself that pwns
18:46 < dekiss> was very good job :)
18:46 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: do we have a template for that
18:46 < Farby> yes,I do
18:46 < dtm_> dekiss: pwn indeed!
18:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ {{NPOV}} ?
18:46 < dekiss> hm
18:46 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: could be!
18:46 < dekiss> ok
18:46 < TParis> The real question should be: Should Wikipedians edit the Wikipedia article?
18:46 < dekiss> i have some questions then
18:46 < dtm_> TParis: :-o
18:46 < dekiss> if you dont mind :)
18:47 < dtm_> dekiss: okay.
18:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ I have two seperate satelite feeds
18:47 < dekiss> ok
18:47 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: wow.  for what?
18:47 < dekiss> whats your religion?
18:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> for the protests
18:47 < dtm_> dekiss: nondenominational Christian
18:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> as in I am watching them
18:47 < Farby> I trust on Christ
18:47 -!- Guest36164 [~Logan@ool-4357f943.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:47 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: wow.  what country are you in?
18:47 < dekiss> ok
18:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> One is on USStream other opn rt.com
18:47 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@pool-96-224-16-199.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:47 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: what's your particular interest in Turkey?  it sounds like your interest is supremely intense.
18:47 < dekiss> dtm_ if you were born muslim would you believe in alah or will turn to Christianity?
18:48 -!- Adrianzo [~androirc@190.207.6.79] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ I am interested in oklohoma when there is a tornado there
18:48 < Swob> turkey is delicious with wraps and caesar dressing
18:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I am interested in Turkey if tear gasses are flung there
18:48 < dtm_> dekiss: hmm!  well, they were originally the same, but then i would have to supercede with Christianity
18:48 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: you are a true citizen of the world
18:49 < dekiss> what was before god made first man and woman?
18:49 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: but still, watching satellite tv all day about other parts of the world, is commendably intense.
18:49 < IDoH> God didn't exist then
18:49 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I also have kfor stream on my computer for about 2 weeks now
18:49 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I dont only watch it
18:49 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its a tab on my computer
18:49 -!- josue [~canaima@186.94.9.191] has left #wikipedia-en []
18:49 < dekiss> IDoH what existed then?
18:50 < dtm_> dekiss: most people don't comprehend an existence outside of time.  i'm not sure that I do, but i comprehend that it's possible.  many people fail to believe in God simply because they fail to comprehend existence outside of time.
18:50 < dtm_> so they childishly confabulate that there is some kind of paradox when there isn't.
18:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dtm_ they havent watched DSN clearly
18:50 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: what's DSN
18:50 < IDoH> dekiss: We're not sure what was here before man and woman, but God didn't exist then.
18:51 < dekiss> dtm_ existense out of time that might answer my deepest question thanks man..
18:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Deep Space Nine
18:51 < dtm_> dekiss: yes.  it's intense stuff.
18:51 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: <3
18:51 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: you speak truth
18:51 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: the way of the prophets, who smile upon yew
18:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> time is a controversial topic
18:51 -!- FastLizard4|zZzZ is now known as FastLizard4
18:51 < dtm_> time is hard.
18:51 < dtm_> hard time.
18:51 < dekiss> dtm_ have you read brief history of time?
18:52 < dtm_> dekiss: i have seen the movie long long ago
18:52 < ToAruShiroiNeko> acceleration, velocity, mass all affect how time proceeds
18:52 < dtm_> in about 1998
18:52 < dekiss> taht book made me think for like 15 years
18:52 < dtm_> ToAruShiroiNeko: yeah that's about all i can understand lol
18:52 < dtm_> see i'm somewhat good at meta-understanding.
18:52 < dtm_> i'm super ultra mega meta.
18:52 < dtm_> i dont even know physics, really, and i dont know what calculus is.
18:52 < dtm_> i haven't read enough wikipedia and ELI5 yet
18:53 < dtm_> but, everything i ever needed to know is, in fact, on wikipedia.
18:53 -!- Beria [~Beria@wikimedia/Beria] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
18:53 < dtm_> i do know that.
18:53 < dekiss> dtm_ whats your educatioin?
18:53 < kylu> calculus is essentially determining the area under a curve or tangent of a curve.
18:53 < dtm_> dekiss: i am a career dropout autodidact, aka a model wikipedian
18:53 -!- TParis [~TParis-PC@wikipedia/TParis] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:53 < kylu> personally I prefer matrix math.
18:53 < dtm_> kylu: that sounds technical.
18:53 < dekiss> dtm_ have university?
18:54 < dekiss> I mean have you specialized in some study ?
18:54 < dtm_> dekiss: i got a high school equivalency (with top scores), and i had two years at a university.
18:54 < kylu> you've done geometry, right?
18:54 < dekiss> something specific?
18:54 < dtm_> dekiss: i was moving toward computer science.
18:54 < dtm_> kylu: i did 10th grade geometry.  one class.
18:54 < dtm_> well and i did math 101.
18:54 < kylu> so, you graph an equation and end up with a nifty curve of some sort...
18:54 < dekiss> ok thanks
18:54 < dtm_> my high school was abominable
18:54 < kylu> you can use that to determine the area under the curve, to start with.
18:54 < dtm_> kylu: yeah i used to write graphing utilities in BASIC and Turbo Pascal
18:55 < dekiss> you know
18:55 < dekiss> I start with
18:55 < dtm_> i wrote BASIC apps to check my algebra homework.  i really like algebra.
18:55 < dekiss> why there is gravity
18:55 < dtm_> cool.
18:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Al-Gebra?
18:55 < Jasper_Deng> dtm_: you'd like calculus even better
18:55 < dekiss> if gravity force put bodies one from another instead pulling them one to eachother there would be no mass..
18:55 < dtm_> my physics education began with Bill Cosby's record, "why is there air?"
18:55 < dekiss> and no people nothing no world
18:55 < dtm_> Jasper_Deng: cool
18:55 < ToAruShiroiNeko> algebra is arabic
18:56 < dekiss> also more hardcore than this -
18:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> therefore controversial
18:56 < dtm_> dekiss: yeah that'd suck.
18:56 < dekiss> why 2+2=4?
18:56 < dtm_> dekiss: i did learn number theory
18:56 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: 2+2=4 b/c we say so!
18:56 < dekiss> if 2+2=5 then again no world..
18:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> math is an unnatural concept
18:56 < Jasper_Deng> b/c we defined it as such!
18:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> 2+2 can equal 5
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18:56 < dtm_> for sufficiently large values of 2
18:56 < dtm_> or sufficiently small values of 5.
18:56 < dekiss> why 2+2=4? who said this is 4 ? why not 5? and why gravity pull things closer and no putting them one from another?
18:56 < dekiss> well...
18:57 < kylu> gravity isn't, I always figured it was easier to ignore gravity and just determine that a given amount of mass is another measure of how much it bends local spacetime.
18:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dekiss gravity isnt fully understood as a force
18:57 < dekiss> when we understadn why this laws exist we can understand our world better
18:57 < dtm_> gravity's weird.
18:57 < addihockey10_> dekiss: the decimal numerical system.
18:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> there are forces that counter gravity
18:57 < ToAruShiroiNeko> like dark energy
18:57 < TParis> dekiss: It doesn't matter what the mathematical labels we use, you could use spanish if you chose.  But two objects added with two of the same objects equals a set number of those objects that we call four in English.
18:57 < Jasper_Deng> dekiss: there are some things like Newton's laws that you can't derive.
18:58 < kylu> ToAruShiroiNeko: are you sure that DE isn't simply a large-scale consequence of the gravity we're already familiar with?
18:58 < Jasper_Deng> kylu: ehh, no
18:58 < Jasper_Deng> my physics textbook explained it in a different manner
18:58  * Jasper_Deng no longer has that book, though
18:58 -!- josue [~canaima@186.94.9.191] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:58 < ToAruShiroiNeko> sunlight slowly returns to taksim square
18:58 < Jasper_Deng> String theory may have answers here.
18:58 < addihockey10_> TParis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senary etc
18:59 < kylu> While I have to admit it's a Kaku-theory, the gravity-is-DE isn't disproven yet that I'm aware of.
18:59 -!- FastLizard4 is now known as FastLizard4|iPad
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18:59 < kylu> I have the book handy if you'd like a ref. :)
18:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu I am not sure about anything on DE
19:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> all I know is it seems to exhert a force that is opposite to observed gravity
19:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> what it seems and what it really is can be completely different
19:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> reality resists simplicity
19:00 < kylu> That's the problem... DE is only observable on scales that prevent us from observing the effect of gravity itself.
19:00 < dtm_> Jasper_Deng: M theory!
19:00 < Jasper_Deng> The main difficulty w/ combining gravity with the other three fundamental forces is that its magnitude is difficult to detect on the quantum level
19:00 -!- Farby [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:00 < dekiss> real inventions will come when we undersstand gravity and why 2+2=4 and why physics laws exist and math laws
19:00 -!- Zenktastic [~Zenktasti@dsl-72-10-219-115.bbr0.cxscny.statetel.com] has left #wikipedia-en []
19:00 < kylu> 'lo Carly.
19:01 < dtm_> i've seen some documentaries on string theory and on the superceding M theory.  no mucho comprendo.
19:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu a fun konjecture I like is anti gravity from anti matter :p
19:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its sci-fi level logic but its cute to think about :p
19:01 < dekiss> what is de?
19:01 < kylu> ToAruShiroiNeko: already tested.
19:01 -!- Migrant [~frankski@ti0095a380-0854.bb.online.no] has left #wikipedia-en []
19:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> *conjecture
19:01 < kylu> dekiss: Dark Energy, if you meant in our convo
19:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu people's fascination with the unknown and their attempts to explain it is always interesting
19:02 < addihockey10_> Why do mathematicians confuse Halloween and Christmas?
19:02 < dekiss> thanks
19:02 < addihockey10_> Because 31 Oct = 25 Dec.
19:02 < addihockey10_> bahahahaha
19:02 < dekiss> I think people at cern work on that
19:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> if you think about it scientists not long ago believed earth had 4 elements, water earth air and fire
19:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> which actually is the 4 states matter can exist in
19:02 < Ironholds> addihockey10: that's terrible; I'm going to steal it (with attribution ;p)
19:02 < TParis> ToAruShiroiNeko: By not long ago, you mean at least 500 years ago.
19:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis which isnt that long ago in the grand scheme of things
19:03 < TParis> Alchemy died out in the 1500-1600s
19:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu, so yes I agree with you in your assessment
19:03 < TParis> In written Human history, it's awhile ago
19:03 < addihockey10> Ironholds I can't take credit, it's from Wikipedia
19:03 < kylu> ToAruShiroiNeko: Four states is very old... it doesn't take any of the odd states of matter into consideration
19:03 < Farby> -NickServ- Your account is now marked as being on vacation.
19:03 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu true
19:03 < dekiss> one question guys
19:03 < Farby> -NickServ- Please be aware that this will be automatically removed the next time you identify to NickServ.
19:03 < Farby> lol
19:03 < dekiss> are ou official editors from wikipedia?
19:04 < ToAruShiroiNeko> my point is people reached the wrong conclusion with the correct observation
19:04 < dekiss> you*
19:04 < ToAruShiroiNeko> because they lacked information to make the correct conclusion
19:04 < TParis> If by official, you means WMF sanctioned and paid?  No.  If by official you mean we're established, yes.
19:04 < kylu> I love superfluids and supersolids, they just absolutely don't make sense.
19:04 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu I like string theory
19:04 < dekiss> ok
19:04 < dekiss> thanks
19:04  * kylu 's not an editor. Kylu is an official irc troll.
19:04 < TParis> Superfluids: Those are the things that defy gravity?
19:05 < ToAruShiroiNeko> if you tie a knot with strings in string theory, do you from a galaxy?
19:05 < kylu> among other things, sure.
19:05 < Farby> Good Night
19:05 < dekiss> gn
19:05 < TParis> Anyone here amazing with CSS?
19:05 < dekiss> 4 am :S
19:05 < kylu> TParis: familiar with exotic atoms?
19:05 < kylu> Check out [[Pionium]]
19:05 < dtm_> u guyz is smot
19:05 -!- josue [~canaima@186.94.9.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:05 < TParis> Not at all.  I'm into computers, not physics.  I just get fasinated by physics stuff.
19:05 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu exotic atoms, like atoms from africa? :p
19:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu I saw a video on how space isnt really empty recently
19:06 < Swob> i read about physics on wikipedia in bed
19:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I believe on veritasium
19:06 < TParis> Anyone a CSS3 expert?
19:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it sems like CERN scientists believe Hadrons are mostly empty space
19:06 < kylu> ToAruShiroiNeko: you mean regarding virtual particles and the dirac sea?
19:06 < dekiss> I curse my high school physics teacher for not teaching me anythiong :S
19:06 < dekiss> she was really terrible
19:07 < dekiss> it reason i have no idea in electricity
19:07 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztc6QPNUqls
19:07 -!- legoktm is now known as duh
19:07 -!- josue [~canaima@186.94.9.191] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:07 < kylu> dekiss: s'okay, there's holes in Maxwell's theories of electricity anyway.
19:07  * kylu falls over laughing at own joke.
19:07 < dekiss> hah
19:08 < dekiss> haha
19:08 < dekiss> o man
19:08 < kylu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_hole
19:08 < dekiss> sometimes im so glad i didnt learned some things, ehich helped me to think out of box
19:08 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@pool-96-224-16-199.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:08 < dekiss> which*
19:08 < dekiss> peopel tend to stick what their teachers taught them at schools
19:08 < dekiss> ..
19:09 < dekiss> and what if teachers were wrong?!
19:09 -!- josue [~canaima@186.94.9.191] has left #wikipedia-en []
19:09 < dekiss> why facken gravity pulls things
19:09 -!- Jasper_Deng is now known as Jasper_Deng_away
19:09 < dekiss> start at that point and youll end up with real invention
19:09 < dekiss> take in fact that gravity couldnt put things apart
19:09 < dekiss> and 2+2=5 maybe sometimes ^^
19:10 -!- Farby [~carly@pdpc/supporter/student/carly] has quit [Quit: I am leaving the way I came,like one day of March 2012]
19:10 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dekiss gravity doesnt pull things
19:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> everything with mass pulls each other
19:12 < dekiss> i know man
19:12 < dekiss> mass make gravity force arround the body
19:12 -!- Swob is now known as AGF
19:12 < dekiss> ...
19:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> no
19:13 < dekiss> gravity is one of most important physic forces to enable world existence
19:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> thats the strong force
19:13  * kylu suggests, if you like learning things, to visit cracked.com and spend a bit of time there for a while.
19:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> really gravity is the weakest force among 4 fumdemental forces of physics
19:14 < kylu> History, physics, foreign languages and cultures, art...
19:14 < kylu> it teaches everything.
19:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> well... I suppose weak force is weaker
19:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> but weak force is strange anyways
19:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I suppose weak force is modern alchemy :p
19:14 < dekiss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation
19:14 < kylu> nerp. http://library.thinkquest.org/27930/forces.htm
19:15 < kylu> the "weak force" is stronger than both gravity and electromagnetism.
19:15 < dekiss> the ore I get old the more I sense I will make some invention and destroy intel amd and rest.. -_-
19:15 < dekiss> I get so nervious as I am not sure what I would do with all that money
19:15 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu but it only happens on very rare circumstances right?
19:16 < dekiss> money are such bad thing :S
19:16 < dekiss> more*
19:16 < kylu> Er, rare, like it's responsible for holding all the atoms, everywhere, together?
19:16 < kylu> I suppose that's rare, okay.
19:16 < ToAruShiroiNeko> isnt that strong force?\
19:16 < dekiss> :)
19:16 < ToAruShiroiNeko> strong force results in nuclear force
19:17 < kylu> mhmm, but the weak force results in radiation, and it counterbalances the strong.
19:17 < kylu> zomg, matter zen.
19:17 < ToAruShiroiNeko> weak force is the interaction between hadrons with leptons right?
19:17 < dekiss> I think as we obviusly can't experiemnt with macfro physics we should and must focus on experiementing with micro physics on micro level
19:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> kylu my point is gravity, electromagnetism and strong force always happens where weak force not as often - for stable hadrons I mean
19:20  * kylu shrugs, okay then.
19:20 < ToAruShiroiNeko> weak force is strange to me
19:20 -!- AzaToth [~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:20 < kylu> no, Strange quarks are m////y'know what, nevermind.
19:20 -!- Harpagornis [~Harpagorn@wikimedia/Harpagornis] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
19:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Strange quarks are strange
19:21 -!- Harpagornis [~Harpagorn@wikimedia/Harpagornis] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:21 < ToAruShiroiNeko> stranger danger? :p
19:21 -!- Harpagornis [~Harpagorn@wikimedia/Harpagornis] has quit [Client Quit]
19:22 < dekiss> my point was, all these things are liek this because of a reason
19:23 < dekiss> I think we should search the reason as we research them
19:23 < ToAruShiroiNeko> science only works with whats observable
19:23 < dekiss> philosophy math physics and chemistry combine these
19:23 < ToAruShiroiNeko> no
19:23 < dekiss> no
19:23 < dekiss> it isnt
19:23 < ToAruShiroiNeko> philosophy is philosophy, math is math
19:23 < dekiss> philosophy !
19:23 < ToAruShiroiNeko> physics uses math
19:24 < dekiss> no
19:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> chemistry also uses math
19:24 < dekiss> no no
19:24 < dekiss> you missed my point
19:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> neither uses philosophy, ever!
19:24 < dekiss> think
19:24 < dekiss> why these laws exist?
19:24 < dekiss> that wil lget you closer to understanding
19:24 < ToAruShiroiNeko> not really
19:24 < dekiss> dont just try to discover what is going on
19:25 < dekiss> I mean think why why world exist..
19:25 < dekiss> people never think about it
19:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> umm increasingly earth became a less special place
19:25 < dekiss> peopel dont have clue hw why world began
19:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we are observing remenants of water on mars
19:25 < dekiss> how*
19:25 < dekiss> but hey they want money and stuff..
19:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> which implies life may be very common in the universe
19:26 < dekiss> that is pure philosophy
19:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we have a very good idea how the world begun
19:26 < ToAruShiroiNeko> you either do not know what philosophy means or are inentionally trying to waste my time
19:26 -!- Jacnoc [~Joshua@c-50-140-179-141.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:26 < dekiss> :)
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19:26 < dekiss> noone have clue how world began
19:27 < dekiss> and will never have
19:27 < dekiss> obviously
19:27 < Ironholds> er. no. we have lots of clues. indeed, evidence.
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19:27 < dekiss> not in close future
19:27 < dekiss> nop
19:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we have observed how many worlds form
19:27 < dekiss> haha nice joke man..
19:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we have seen many worlds get destroyed
19:27 < dekiss> worlds?
19:27 < dekiss> im talking about space and time
19:27 < dekiss> world=space+time
19:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we have even seen planets form around dead stars too
19:27 < dekiss> one level above what you are speaking
19:27 < dekiss> see..
19:27 < dekiss> peopel dont think out of box
19:27 < ToAruShiroiNeko> nothing is more surreal than observing planets around neutron stars
19:27 < dekiss> its like kind of a desease
19:27 < dekiss> :S
19:28 < dekiss> im talking about everything
19:28 < dekiss> totally everything
19:28 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:28 < Ironholds> dekiss: if you knew what you were on about you'd know that spacetime is one thing, not two.
19:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsar_planet#List_of_pulsar_planets
19:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> space/time
19:28 < dekiss> any atom and even lower level then atom and every second taht passed since begining of time
19:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dekiss thats not the same for an atom near a black hole
19:29 < ToAruShiroiNeko> time slows down then
19:29 < dekiss> i know man
19:29 < dekiss> i know is one thing
19:29 < dekiss> but people dont
19:29 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I dont think you know a whole lot.
19:29 < dekiss> its one level above
19:29 < dekiss> that is true
19:29 < dekiss> but none knows a whole lot
19:29 < dekiss> he can just think and have opinion
19:29 < dekiss> but hell we know nothing
19:29 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I am very tired of this
19:29 < ToAruShiroiNeko> do your own thing
19:29 -!- Seahorse [~Seahorse@wikipedia/Seahorseruler] has quit [Quit: brb]
19:30 < dekiss> look arround
19:31 < dekiss> I reffer to arround as up in the sky, what you see? dead mass? look animals what you see?
19:31 < dekiss> then look people - what yo usee?
19:31 < TParis> Need help from someone good at CSS3
19:31 < dekiss> then you will understand ;)
19:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> TParis I am not your man
19:33 < ToAruShiroiNeko> how about -tech?
19:33 < dekiss> good night
19:33 < dekiss> nice talk
19:33 < dekiss> im not sorry for time spent here
19:33 < dekiss> ill come back tomorow :)
19:34 < dekiss> thanks and good night all
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19:36 < dtm_> blam.
19:36 < TParis> He was annoying...
19:36 < TParis> I smelled a troll
19:36 < dtm_> he was nice though.
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19:40 < mareklug> 4-2 Chicago with 41 seconds remaining
19:40 -!- Solarra [~Solarra@wikipedia/Solarra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> so why not wait 41 seconds before reporting? :p
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19:57 < dtm_> vandals are repeatedly descending on the same article, from a .mil IP address.  what do you think the odds are that i can track them down and have them disciplined? ;)  lol
19:58 < dtm_> don't you think i should?  there are two consecutive addresses.  i wonder if it's two bored servicepeople, egging each other on
19:58 < kylu> ip?
19:59 -!- amway [ThrashIRC@cm32.eta29.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:59 < dtm_> it's the navy, yo.  This IP address, 138.162.128.53, is registered to Navy Network Information Center (NNIC)
19:59 -!- duh is now known as legoktm
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19:59 < dtm_> it's just constant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:138.162.128.53
19:59 < dtm_> well not constant but a lot!
20:00 -!- Koi is now known as duh
20:00 < dtm_> more than I see with many addresses ;)
20:00 -!- duh is now known as doh_
20:00 -!- doh_ is now known as Koi
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20:01 < dtm_> i'm still trying to reconstruct this article.  it was a lot.
20:02 < dtm_> and it was .52, and .54
20:02 < kylu> mind sending logs and brief explanation to an email address for me?
20:02 -!- pakaran [~pakaran@wikipedia/pakaran] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20:02 < dtm_> kylu: well it's all here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Travis_Pastrana&action=history
20:02 < dtm_> and i'm Smuckola, tryin to fix it.  i think i missed some old ones.
20:02 < kylu> those addresses have done some other vandalism also, looks like.
20:03 < kylu> but, if you'd pop a brief (i.e. something they can act upon) to netwarcom_ltlc_pao@navy.mil they can see who was using that IP.
20:03 < dtm_> yeah i bet
20:03 < dtm_> kylu: okay good to know.
20:03 < dtm_> i'll do that.
20:03 < dtm_> with great relish.
20:03 < kylu> ty.
20:04 < kylu> No relish please, gives me heartburn.
20:04 < dtm_> it's kosher relish
20:04 < dtm_> chicago style
20:05 < dtm_> sadly, the most authentic chicago style hot dog i've ever had, was at Sonic.
20:05 < dtm_> i've been watching this documentary reality show about life on a naval aircraft carrier, and they literally say it's one gigantic high school.
20:06 < kylu> ...funny, could be used to describe my job too.
20:06 < dtm_> kylu: do you work at a gigantic high school?
20:06 < dtm_> or what
20:07 < kylu> no, boring government job.
20:07 < dtm_> may i ask what kind?
20:07 < dtm_> the show is called Carrier btw
20:07 < dtm_> from PBS
20:07 < dtm_> it's on netflix streaming.
20:07 < dtm_> you might watch it on your phone or whatever, at your desk ;)
20:08 < kylu> I sit in a cubicle and analyze data all day, make pretty graphs, then report my findings to very important people who immediately discard what I've told them in favor of their own (usually wrong) pet theory.
20:08 < kylu> very rewarding.
20:08 < dtm_> oh my.  a university?
20:08 < dtm_> i would like your graphs <3
20:08 < kylu> it's .gov, not .edu
20:08 < dtm_> i made a graph here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walfredo_Reyes,_Jr.#Career
20:08 < dtm_> it's incomplete
20:08 < dtm_> but it's just that astounding.  i had to publish it.
20:09 < dtm_> it was based on the one from [[Chicago (band)]]
20:09 < dtm_> fake it til you make it, yo
20:11 < dtm_> indeed i might even go so far as to ask for protected status on that article, ya know?
20:11 -!- Jetro [~UserNick@53.211.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:11 < dtm_> i mean half the edits are anonymous vandals.
20:12 < dtm_> and i am now going to have to do forensics just to determine whether certain parts are vandalism.  and i dont even know anything about this subject.
20:12 < dtm_> let me specify --- i dont know, and i dont care.  >:/
20:12 < dtm_> i just care about data integrity.
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20:17 -!- p858snake|l_ [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:17 < dtm_> good ol' WikiBlame.  :/
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20:21 < dtm_> yeah it was the same guy, three days ago.
20:21 < dtm_> same IP address.  ok i'll email a diff there.
20:21 -!- AGF is now known as {soap|bed}
20:23 < kylu> nini
20:24 -!- James_F is now known as James_F|Away
20:27 -!- peachey|laptop__ [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:30 < mareklug> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105918205/Success.RuningPageMakerInAnEmulatedSytem9on2009iMacIntel.png
20:31 -!- p858snake|l_ [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:33 < {soap|bed}> i had pagemaker once
20:33 < {soap|bed}> it came free in a bundle of software
20:33 < {soap|bed}> never used it
20:33 < {soap|bed}> so it's a web design priohgraM?
20:34 < {soap|bed}> *program
20:34 < mareklug> I have pagemaker not once, but 4 times or 5:  on floppies as 4.0, when it was Aldus before Adobe bought the company
20:34 -!- VunKruz [~hhhh@108-206-230-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:34 < dtm_> kylu: sent.
20:34 < dtm_> {soap|bed}: not at all.
20:35 < mareklug> {soap|bed} no it is not.  It is a professional desktop publishing thing, as in for laying out books and posters.
20:35 < dtm_> i used it once
20:35 < dtm_> i published a local entertainment magazine
20:35 < dtm_> i just remembered that, mareklug lol
20:35 < {soap|bed}> ok
20:35 < dtm_> and i converted it from scratch, to the web.  this was about 1997.
20:35 < {soap|bed}> i remember Print Shop too
20:35 < dtm_> yeah.
20:35 < mareklug> dtm_ don't you think that screenshot looks scruptious?  all that 1997 tech.
20:35 < {soap|bed}> i wonder if theyre still in business
20:35 < dtm_> mareklug: lol
20:36 < mareklug> {soap|bed} who is still to be in business?  Adobe?  Yes, they are in business.
20:36 < {soap|bed}> no, Print Shop
20:37 < {soap|bed}> it looks like they are, but no new versions in 4 years except for a minor patch to the 2009 version
20:37 < mareklug> {soap|bed} they will even sell you a PageMaker 7 that will only run in Classic Macs or Windows XP
20:37 < mareklug> {soap|bed} it's called dead software, but still used and therefore, milked for.
20:38 < mareklug> dtm_ publishing software has not gotten any better or faster
20:39 -!- _Nirvana_ [47d93134@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.217.49.52] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:39 < {soap|bed}> Print Shop was a nice cheap alternative to PageMaker, Photoshop, MS Publisher, etc
20:40 < _Nirvana_> I POOPED MY PANTS LIKE A BIG BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:40 < _Nirvana_> O__________O
20:40 -!- Richwales [~Richwales@wikipedia/Richwales] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:40 < _Nirvana_> I FARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:40 -!- _Nirvana_ [47d93134@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.217.49.52] has left #wikipedia-en []
20:40 < Koi> er.
20:40 < Koi> okay then.
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20:41 < mareklug> {soap|bed} perhaps for basic stuff.  But if you need to color match, trap, or full bleed, and embed fonts, you can't do that on the cheap
20:41 < JKL1234-> what the actual fuck
20:42 < dtm_> mareklug knows wussup
20:44 < mareklug> dtm now my main constraint is logical volume size.  this thing came piddly configured for 480 meg.  I need to increase that by 10 fold
20:45 < dtm_> unleash the TRUE beast WITHIN
20:45 -!- Richwales [~Richwales@wikipedia/Richwales] has left #wikipedia-en ["Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"]
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20:45 < _Nirvana_> BUTT POOP ROLLED DOWN THE STAIRS ONTO YUKY DOODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:46 -!- _Nirvana_ [47d93134@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.217.49.52] has left #wikipedia-en []
20:46 < IDoH> Er…Can ops help with Nirvana?
20:47 < {soap|bed}> that IP looks familiar
20:47 < IDoH> {soap|bed}: From what, exactly?
20:47 < IDoH> A wikipedia vandal? That seems like the sort of things a child vandal might do.
20:47 < {soap|bed}> nah
20:48 < {soap|bed}> there was another IP troll a few nights ago
20:48 < IDoH> Ahhh, I see.
20:48 < IDoH> Should we do !_ops, {soap|bed}?
20:49 < {soap|bed}> * Logan_ sets mode: +b *!*@c-71-227-76-44.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
20:49 < {soap|bed}> coincidence, i think
20:49 < {soap|bed}> only the first number is the same
20:49 < IDoH> Okay
20:50 < IDoH> Yeah, I'm not sure if ops can do anything now
20:50 < IDoH> +b is quieting, right?
20:50 < {soap|bed}> it means ban
20:50 < IDoH> Or is quieting +o?
20:50 < Jasper_Deng> IDoH: quieting = +q
20:50 < {soap|bed}> but sometimes an op will "ban" someone without kicking them, which effectively is the same as quiet
20:50 < IDoH> Oh, okay.
20:50 < Jasper_Deng> (although +q = channel founder on other networks)
20:50 < Jasper_Deng> (including my own (sry, IPv6 only atm)
20:50 < {soap|bed}> oooh
20:51 < {soap|bed}> your own IRC network
20:51 < IDoH> So a kick ban will look like…what?
20:51 < IDoH> Exactly?
20:51 < Jasper_Deng> IDoH: kickban is /kick followed by setting /mode +b, or the reverse
20:51 < JKL1234-> <3 founder, admin, and halfop
20:52 < IDoH> I see.
20:52 < Jasper_Deng> JKL1234: all of which exist on my net.
20:52 < IDoH> Jasper_Deng: What will it look like to me, though?
20:52 < {soap|bed}> Operator sets mode: +b User
20:52 < {soap|bed}> * User was kicked by Operator (User)
20:52 < {soap|bed}> though every client renders it differently
20:52 < IDoH> {soap|bed}: I see.
20:52 < Jasper_Deng> Chatzilla uses "was booted from <channel> by operator"
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20:54 < legoktm> mareklug: :D
20:54 < legoktm> Current Version: Textual 3.0.3 (Build #2014)
20:54 -!- osxdude [~osxdude@unaffiliated/osxdude] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20:55 < mareklug> legoktm and your bouncer bounces?
20:55 < legoktm> works great
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20:56 < mareklug> legoktm did you see my latest mac dog walking on hind legs trick?
20:56 < legoktm> lolwut?
20:57 < mareklug> 22:30:56] <mareklug> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105918205/Success.RuningPageMakerInAnEmulatedSytem9on2009iMacIntel.png
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21:00 < legoktm> ohohoh
21:00 < legoktm> yeah i saw that
21:02 < mareklug> legoktm so after tonight, the Blackhawks are leading the finals 2-0.
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21:17 < legoktm> sdamashek|sleep: ping
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21:27 < IDoH> legoktm: sdamashek|sleep is…um…guess what…sleeping.
21:27 < legoktm> Probably! But hopefully he'll respond when he gets up
21:28 < IDoH> Possibly
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21:45 < ChrisGualtieri> Hey can an admin explain something quickly for me? A page is protected, for no apparant reason and lacks template
21:45 < ChrisGualtieri> I can't even add the persondata field >.>;
21:45 < IDoH> Can you check the protection logs?
21:45 < IDoH> So, it's fully protected, correct?
21:46 < ChrisGualtieri> I believe so
21:46 < ChrisGualtieri> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aja_%28entertainer%29&diff=453689336&oldid=453689236
21:46 < IDoH> It was attacked by a bot, apparently.
21:46 < IDoH> A year and a half ago
21:47 < IDoH> You can try to request for unprotection, if you wish
21:47 < ChrisGualtieri> That's stupid x-x
21:47 < ChrisGualtieri> But okay
21:47 < IDoH> What's stupid?
21:48 < ChrisGualtieri> Why not address the issue with the bot? Why lock the page from all editing
21:48 < IDoH> Maybe the bots get autoconfirmed quickly.
21:48 < IDoH> Wait four days, make ten constructive edits while the account is being controlled by a human, and release the bot.
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21:50 < IDoH> But why would you fully protect it indefinitely?
21:50 -!- Jeske_Couriano [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]]
21:50 < IDoH> Again, request unprotection, using twinkle.
21:52 < legoktm> ChrisGualtieri: Looking.
21:54 < ToAruShiroiNeko> IDoH should femen protest against public flashing?
21:54 < legoktm> ChrisGualtieri: I unprotected it
21:54 < IDoH> ToAruShiroiNeko: Should females, you mean?
21:54 < ChrisGualtieri> oh thanks, was figuring out how to do it on twinkle lol
21:59 < ToAruShiroiNeko> femen is a protest group
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22:00 < IDoH> ToAruShiroiNeko: Ah. Probably so.
22:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> the protest by flashing their boobs tho
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22:02  * IDoH facepalms
22:02 < IDoH> That's a bad idea, ToAruShiroiNeko
22:02 < ChrisGualtieri> Lol
22:02 < ToAruShiroiNeko> google femen if you like to see what I mean
22:03  * IDoH just did that.
22:03 < SigmaWP> ToAruShiroiNeko: Are they the people who got thumbs-upped by Putin?
22:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> ya
22:07 < ToAruShiroiNeko> putin gave 3-thumbs up if you know what I mean
22:07 < ChrisGualtieri> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MojtabaAkbari Does this count as a speedy? The article is still at AFC as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Mojtaba_Akbari
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22:09 < IDoH> ChrisGualtieri: Sounds like somebody didn't understand talk pages.
22:09 < IDoH> The article doesn't exist, so probably.
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22:21 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Would anybody here like to discuss the subject of this article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheUnknownNinjaNN2/sandbox
22:21 -!- anona [~z31fcs@99-90-197-87.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:22 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Hello?
22:22 -!- VunKruz [~hhhh@108-206-230-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:23 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Is anyone here?
22:24 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Jeske_Couriano: hello.
22:25 < Jasper_Deng> UnknownNinjaNN2: I think asking three times within a few hours is a bit much.
22:25 < ChrisGualtieri> Fan made games with no RSes do not meet notability.
22:26 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Someone was discussing. I left. I came back later because I got busy. What is the big deal? The guy was interested. I just underestimated my time.
22:26 < Jasper_Deng> Swob's now offline
22:27 -!- Fluffernutter is now known as Fluff|sleep
22:27 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Okay. I wasn't discussing the article by pm anyway. I discussing the fact that I was remaking it.
22:27 < UnknownNinjaNN2> The game.
22:28 < ChrisGualtieri> you are making the game?
22:28  * Jasper_Deng forgot that UnknownNinjaNN2 should perhaps read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:COI
22:28 < Jasper_Deng> although you're doing the right thing by asking for outside views.
22:29 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Actually, the article is not even going to be resubmitted. I plan on moving but anyway we are changing the subject.
22:31 < UnknownNinjaNN2> ChrisGualtieri: I got enough material for six or seven parts. The original had two.
22:31 < ChrisGualtieri> Huh?
22:31 < ChrisGualtieri> We need RSes
22:31 < UnknownNinjaNN2> The storyline was cut in half.
22:31 < UnknownNinjaNN2> And what is an RSes
22:32 -!- kondi [~kondi@123.201.21.34] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:32 < Jasper_Deng> UnknownNinjaNN2: = abbreviation for reliable sources
22:33 < ChrisGualtieri> Independent sources which discuss the subject.
22:33 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Whoa! Guys. I just wanted to talk about me remaking it! Not the articles errors!
22:34 < UnknownNinjaNN2> You know, bounce ideas around.
22:34 < Jasper_Deng> when you remake it, you correct errors too
22:34 < UnknownNinjaNN2> I am actually remaking the video game. As in programming.
22:35 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Not the article.
22:35  * Jasper_Deng pokes Ks0stm
22:35 < ChrisGualtieri> Then why have it on Wikipedia...
22:36 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Why not? Doesn't it get dull around here? What else would we discuss?
22:37 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Besides, Wikipedians have an interesting view at times...
22:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we discuss physics theories on ceiling cats mass
22:38 < UnknownNinjaNN2> ???
22:40 < gry> heh
22:40 < gry> you're supposed to be a ninja
22:40 < Shirik> the problem with determining a ceiling cat's mass is that cats generally move quickly
22:40 < gry> don't ask direct questions then
22:40 < gry> do observation all the time and hide more
22:40 < gry> hehe
22:40 < Shirik> and as they move faster, they become more massive
22:40 < Shirik> accordingly cats have a non-constant mass
22:40 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Well, for anyone familiar with Nintendo: I turned Fawful into a Shroob.
22:41 < gry> w00ties
22:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Jasper_Deng isnt it odd that we are getting so many questions on wikipedias fundementals by multiple nicks
22:41 < ToAruShiroiNeko> whom all claim to be oblivious to everything and yet ask similar questions?
22:41 < Ks0stm> Jasper_Deng: Yes?
22:41 < gry> yes, very suspicious, let's fire them all
22:41  * gry nods
22:42 < UnknownNinjaNN2> So maybe everyone gets confused by the same things!
22:42 < Shirik> out of a cannon?
22:42 < ToAruShiroiNeko> or its forum shopping
22:42 < gry> Shirik: yes please
22:42 < gry> Shirik: since the cannon is large and visible, we should get a ninja to carry it (I think UnknownNinjaNN2 would do the job well :)
22:43 < UnknownNinjaNN2> Also, I am not a ninja! That was a pun on my old username InsertNameHere and the fact that edit conflicts are called being ninja'd on forums.
22:45 < gry> what is your new wiki username?
22:46 < UnknownNinjaNN2> It was always TheUnknownNinjaNN2 InsertNameHere was my forum username.
22:48 < UnknownNinjaNN2> So, anybody want to get back on the subject of that game I am remaking?
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22:55 -!- zz_YuviPanda is now known as YuviPanda
22:56 < YuviPanda> hello
22:56 < YuviPanda> I need help handling a potential COI / AfC
22:57 < YuviPanda> a company (that I'm not associated with, but have plenty of friends in, + they once offered me a job (which I turned down)) wants to have their wiki article go through AfC
22:57 < YuviPanda> there seem to be enough coverage in notable sources for it to pass
22:57 < YuviPanda> what should I do?
22:57 < YuviPanda> is there a guideline that I can point them to?
22:58 < Shirik> WP:COI, but there's nothing particularly wrong with them creating their own article
22:58 -!- Jacnoc [~Joshua@c-50-140-179-141.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:58 < Shirik> it's just really, really hard to stay neutral
22:58 < YuviPanda> Shirik: indeed
22:58 < Shirik> but they can run it through AFC to see if they can get it to pass
22:58 < YuviPanda> they're also asking about the logo - I suppose that should go on enwiki?
22:58 -!- Jacnoc [~Joshua@c-50-140-179-141.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
22:58 < YuviPanda> is there a document specifying what templates, etc they should use?
22:58 < Shirik> preferably it would go on commons
22:59 < Shirik> not really
22:59 < kondi> YuviPanda I feel stupid after what I showed you yesterday :|
22:59 < Shirik> it doesn't have to be perfect at the first og
22:59 < Shirik> go
22:59 < Shirik> it just needs to be neutral and notable
22:59 < YuviPanda> sure, but I suppose it isn't really CC or any commons compatible license...
22:59 < YuviPanda> kondi: hehe, found the issue?
22:59 < YuviPanda> Shirik: hmm, right.
23:00 < kondi> YuviPanda: Yeah, the moment you told me about the mismash.
23:00 < dtm_> YuviPanda: you should submit the url here for copy editing for the overall objectivity, and for your peace of mind
23:00 < YuviPanda> yes yes, peace of mind is what i'm primarily looking for :D
23:00 < YuviPanda> dtm_: so steps would be to 1. have someone else write it on their userpage 2.
23:01 < YuviPanda> 2. have a bunch of truly neutral people look at it
23:01 < YuviPanda> 3. have one of them move it to article space
23:01 < YuviPanda> sounds good?
23:04 < YuviPanda> dtm_: can you also tell me what to do about their logo?
23:04 < YuviPanda> it is not CC...
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23:06 < David_Stevenson> ToAruShiroiNeko: zing
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23:15 < dtm_> YuviPanda: didn't you say you already wrote it?
23:15 < dtm_> YuviPanda: step 1 if you already wrote it, is to just paste the url here
23:15 < YuviPanda> no, in ways of extreme COI avoidance, we got yet another guy who is a mutual friend to write it :P
23:15 < YuviPanda> so moment, I just emailed him
23:15 < dtm_> it doesn't matter where it's stored.  just that there are multiple contributors.
23:16 < YuviPanda> yeah, I got nothing so far.
23:16 < dtm_> YuviPanda: and to the overall plan you stated, yes
23:16 < YuviPanda> i'll paste it when he replies
23:18 < YuviPanda> all I got so far is https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Companies&diff=554819290&oldid=554239418
23:18 < YuviPanda> which is the edit to requested articles
23:18 < YuviPanda> a while back
23:18 < YuviPanda> with notable sources
23:19 < dtm_> YuviPanda: so it's Exotel?
23:19 < YuviPanda> yes
23:19 < dtm_> and you just have a bunch of references.
23:19 < dtm_> ok.
23:20 < dtm_> roger that
23:20 < YuviPanda> this was months ago
23:20 < YuviPanda> there's a written article... somewhere
23:20 < YuviPanda> I don't have it yet
23:20 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-098-027-034-197.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:20 < dtm_> oh.  ok.
23:20 < YuviPanda> I was just talking to confirm that whatever I'm doing is the right way to go :)
23:20 < YuviPanda> I might be paranoid from reading too much AN/I and related areas :)
23:20 < YuviPanda> kondi: did you fix the mismash? :)
23:22 < kondi> YuviPanda: after you told me that I induldged in self loathing and then went to sleep. Will be fixing it today
23:22 < YuviPanda> lol
23:22 < YuviPanda> :D
23:22 < kondi> :)
23:24 < YuviPanda> kondi: just to note, whatever I said wasn't with intent of causing self loathing
23:24 < YuviPanda> or anything
23:24 < YuviPanda> :)
23:24 < kondi> YuviPanda: I know :)
23:25 < dtm_> how would i make two columns (i'm using {{div col | 2}} presently) which are aligned to the left?  i want them both hugging the left.
23:25 < dtm_> right now they're spaced way out.  one on the left, one on the right.
23:26 < dtm_> i want them only to be just as wide as they need to be, with no whitespace, and left-aligned
23:28 < kondi> YuviPanda: Atul Chitnis passed away?
23:28 < YuviPanda> ....
23:28 < YuviPanda> what
23:29 < kondi> yes he did
23:29 < YuviPanda> fuck
23:29 < kondi> read on twitter
23:29 < YuviPanda> I thought his Cancer was receding
23:29 < YuviPanda> yeah i just saw
23:29 < YuviPanda> sigh
23:29  * kondi sighs
23:29 < YuviPanda> RIP
23:30 < dtm_> :\
23:34 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-098-027-034-197.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:36 < legoktm> :(
23:37 < dtm_> how do i request for an article to be protected against anonymous editing, because half of the recent edits have been vandalism?
23:37 < dtm_> (anonymous vandalism)
23:37 < YuviPanda> semi-protection, catch an admin?
23:37 < YuviPanda> dtm_: Shirik is an admin, I think? :)
23:37 < legoktm> Hey!
23:37 < legoktm> I'm here!
23:37 < dtm_> without the 'catch' part, how does one actually do that
23:37 < dtm_> what's the official method
23:37 < YuviPanda> hmm
23:37 < legoktm> WP:RFPP
23:38 < YuviPanda> oh yes, legoktm too :)
23:38 < YuviPanda> legoktm: for some reason I keep thinking of you as 'bot guy' than 'admin'
23:38 < YuviPanda> sorry
23:38 < legoktm> :P
23:38 < dtm_> legoktm: check tihs crap out http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Travis_Pastrana&action=history
23:38 < kondi> hehe
23:38 < dtm_> legoktm: i wasted mad time reconstructing that article's three day history, and reporting it to the US Navy.
23:39 < dtm_> over something i dont know or care anything about <3
23:39 < dtm_> specifically
23:39 < koishi> i can't respond to this guy anymore
23:39 < koishi> i'm dealing with a child
23:39 < koishi> a /real/ child
23:39 < koishi> what people mean when they say "child"
23:39 < koishi> what do i do
23:39 < legoktm> ok, i've semi'd for a week
23:39 < koishi> god what do i /do/
23:39 < legoktm> koishi: huh?
23:40 < koishi> why are people like this allowed to do anything
23:40 < koishi> why
23:40 < dtm_> koishi: :-I
23:40 < koishi> no, i don't need a wikibreak
23:40 < koishi> i need to make my own damned wiki
23:41 < koishi> the free encyclopedia where absolutely no one else will ever be able to edit
23:41 < legoktm> Wow, thats the third poop username I've blocked today :/
23:41 < koishi> because ivorytowering is all you can do
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23:42 < koishi> that is the only way you can "win" against these...
23:42 < koishi> are they /robots/, maybe
23:42 < koishi> are they /them/
23:43 < koishi> they look and seemingly act like normal human beings but they are monsters
23:43 < koishi> lest ye become a monster etc etc
23:45 -!- Mr-ex777 [~chatzilla@202.82.11.104] has quit [Quit: PWNT]
23:45 < koishi> how do i report conflicts with other users
23:45 < koishi> i keep forgetting because it seems like there are at least three different ways to
23:46 < legoktm> WP:DRN
23:46 < koishi> thank you
23:46 < koishi> save yourselves from these monsters
23:46 < koishi> while you still can
23:47 < koishi> oh no
23:47 < koishi> i can't use it
23:47 < koishi> because 90% of this is his behavior and conduct
23:47 < legoktm> oh
23:47 < legoktm> WP:ANI
23:47 < gry> err what... see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution first
23:47 -!- amway [ThrashIRC@cm32.eta29.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:48 < gry> although it doesn't link to DRN or ANI oddly enough, which I think it should
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 03 00:00:55 2013