User:Badmachine/wikipedia-en-2012-08-14

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--- Log opened Tue Aug 14 00:00:06 2012
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00:23 < Sp33dyphil> HELLO?
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00:25 < Guest5614> hello
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00:29  * Keegan waves at kim_
00:29 < Keegan> ack
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00:37 < Sp33dyphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O7K-8G2nwU
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00:45 < mareklug> Sp33dyphil:  that tube will only play in oz, but judging from the title there should be others
00:45 < Sp33dyphil> how come in Aus only?
00:46 < mareklug> it says uploader did not make it available in your country
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00:52 < Sp33dyphil> hmm. Anyway mareklug, if you were given a choice, would you rather be run over by Bolt at top speed, or a 35 km/h car?
00:53 < mareklug> Bolt has less mass and is more soft
00:53 < Sp33dyphil> but he travels at ~39 km/h
00:53 < mareklug> 1 tonne car is kind of unforgiving
00:54 < Sp33dyphil> what about a 30 km/h car?
00:54 < mareklug> i still count on the ergonomics of human/human collisions
00:55 < Sp33dyphil> what about Chuck Norris?
00:56 < mareklug> a 35 km/hr Chuck?
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00:57 < Sp33dyphil> 0 km/h.
00:58 < mareklug> but hitting, right?
00:58 < Sp33dyphil> I'd rather be run over by a car.
00:58 < Sp33dyphil> mareklug: irrelevant ;)
00:59 < Sp33dyphil> Onto a diff subject, what's so special about Beats Audio?
01:00 < mareklug> souns fashionable and expensive
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01:01 < Sp33dyphil> gtg
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02:43 < Qcoder02> When did Wikipedia get a 'throttle' on edits?
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03:00 < IRWolfie-> Qcoder02: how do you mean?
03:00 < Steven_Zhang> IRWolfie-: <3
03:01 < IRWolfie-> o/
03:01 < Qcoder02> When doing some reflink updates on Tabs I got an error aout 'throttled edits'
03:01 < Qcoder02> I'm asusming a link is hitting the spam filter or something
03:01 < IRWolfie-> through toolserver?
03:01 < IRWolfie-> probably toolserver has some limits/
03:01 < IRWolfie-> *?
03:02 < IRWolfie-> reflinks and checklinks are awesome, I'm not sure why editors don't use them more often
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03:32 < Qcoder02> What I'm doing with reflinks can probably be automated anyway
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03:41 < Qcoder02> It's filing in {{cite web}} for blank URLS
03:41 < Qcoder02> Which is a fix that should probably be done by a bot or inside Mediawiki's curation toolbar
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04:08 < Soapy> i think Finnish truly is the world's most beautiful language
04:09 < mareklug> what makes you say that?
04:11 < Soapy> because every song sounds better when it's sung in Finnish
04:11 < Soapy> and it can be any type of song
04:12 < Soapy> its not like Irish Gaelic which only works when its sung by women with fairy-like coloratura voices
04:12 < mareklug> and that's without the benefit of Finnish vodka
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05:02 < IRWolfie-> < Soapy> its not like Irish Gaelic which only works when ...  <- it always works!
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05:24 < Deathlasersonlin> Hello
05:24 < Deathlasersonlin> Please UNBLOCK me
05:24 < Deathlasersonlin> Unblock me
05:25 < Deathlasersonlin> Plz unblock me
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05:25 < Deathlasersonlin> UNBLOCK ME
05:26 < Deathlasersonlin> UNBLOCK ME
05:26 < Deathlasersonlin> u
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05:26 < Deathlasersonlin> k
05:26 < Qcoder02> !ops
05:26 < Deathlasersonlin> .
05:26 < Deathlasersonlin> sorry
05:27 < Deathlasersonlin> now unblock me
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05:27 < Qcoder02> Unblock where?
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05:27 < Deathlasersonlin> e
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05:27 < mareklug> Deathlasersonlin:  you're just asking to be kidked off the channel
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05:28 < Deathlasersonlin> m
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05:28 < Qcoder02> :)
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06:09 < wctaiwan> http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2012/08/11 <- I actually laughed out loud when I read that.
06:10 < wctaiwan> describes Wikipedian interaction so well.
06:13 < Jarry1250> wctaiwan: Heh, enjoyed that
06:13 < wctaiwan> :)
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06:42 < TeeTylerToe> it's absurd how people refuse to believe that it takes two to do most of the fighting and hostility on wikipedia
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06:50 < Demiurge1000> Two is enough, but a couple of dozen is better.
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06:52 < TeeTylerToe> But I wasn't edit warring!  THEY were edit warring!
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06:53 < wctaiwan> hey Pharos
06:54 < wctaiwan> TeeTylerToe: or you could have one jackass and another person who can't keep their cool.
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06:54 < Pharos> hi
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06:55 < Gigs-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Peterkasprzycki
06:55 < Gigs-> does this seem weird/socky to anyone else?
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06:57 < Gigs-> Uzma is a somewhat active participant in MfD though, so I guess they might just be making a joke
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07:01 < MartijnWork> anyone here who I can abuse for basic javascript help?
07:02 < nickanc> ask on #wikimedia-tech
07:03 < TeeTylerToe> 46% of americans die with an estate worth $10,000 or less.  Basically living off social security.  And republicans want to cut social security...
07:03 < wctaiwan> er, probably not the best idea, nickanc.
07:03 < wctaiwan> that's for tech issues with WMF wikis.
07:03 < wctaiwan> not general tech help.
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07:04 < TeeTylerToe> try ##javascript
07:04 < TeeTylerToe> but what's your question
07:04 < MartijnWork> I did TeeTylerToe, but it didn't work
07:04 < MartijnWork> I'm a noob, and I'm not getting why this fiddle isn't working: http://jsfiddle.net/Q3RLT/3/
07:04 < wctaiwan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thorntonstoffee.jpg dayem that looks good.
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07:15 < Jarry1250> MartijnWork: It AJAXes http://fiddle.jshell.net/echo/html/?%3Cp%3Emy%20dynamic%20div%20content%3C/p%3E ?
07:15 < Jarry1250> Which is blank?
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07:16 < wctaiwan> and the verbification brigade marches on :P
07:17 < Jarry1250> Oh, I think it's not being posted
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07:18 < MartijnWork> hrm, odd
07:18 < Jarry1250> MartijnWork: I think if you use $.post instead of $.ajax, you'll find it works,
07:18 < Jarry1250> although you can also do that the long way by supplying another parameter to $.ajax
07:18 < Jarry1250> I think.
07:20 < MartijnWork> neither, alas
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07:21 < Jarry1250> MartijnWork: http://jsfiddle.net/jvuwn/
07:21 < Jarry1250> Oh, I see, you want a prepend
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07:23 < Jarry1250> Actually, ignore me, I misunderstood completely
07:23  * MartijnWork scratches his head in amazement
07:25 < nickanc> is there on en.wp any kind of js tool that safesubst templates?
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07:28 < Jarry1250> MartijnWork: I'm struggling to get a post to /echo/html to return anything
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07:30 < MartijnWork> ugh, this works: http://jsfiddle.net/jvuwn/1/
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07:32 < Jarry1250> Must be picky about dataType? Not sure.
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07:41 < MartijnWork> progress!
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07:42 < tommorris> MartijnWork: thank you for your generous compliment on the size of my balls btw.
07:43 < WilliamH_UK> that's a great time to open mIRC
07:43 < Shirik> thinking same thing
07:44 < tommorris> don't worry, I haven't uploaded any photos to Commons. just a few rather controversial deletion debates.
07:44 < WilliamH_UK> deletion debates of images of your balls?
07:45 < MartijnWork> tommorris, you and your balls are quite welcome
07:45 < tommorris> WilliamH_UK: no, I decided to throw caution to the wind and reopen a debate on paedophilia.
07:45 < Betacommand> WilliamH_UK: that reminds me of some fr.wiki vandalism yesterday
07:45 < tommorris> and the sky has yet to fall in.
07:45 < MartijnWork> note that they had moral support, not actual support, as I felt physically supporting your balls would be unseamly
07:46 < WilliamH_UK> tommorris if you put pictures of your balls on commons and they were nominated for deletion, why not e-mail british government lawyers and get them to sort it out? they did a good job last time
07:46 < tommorris> "Dear Sir or Madam, I would like your professional opinion on my genitals."
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07:57 < MartijnWork> tommoris, you're smart(tm). The following works (with the last call uncommented). Is this that the right way, or am I doing it wrong? http://jsfiddle.net/jvuwn/4/
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08:03 < Brooklyn> Question for ArbCom: Who's the mailman?
08:06 < MartijnWork> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Mailman
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08:07 < tommorris> MartijnWork: sorry, was afk. have to go to the post office and stuff.
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08:08 < MartijnWork> np, I'll see if the good folks at stackexchange/codereview have goodies for me
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08:10 < wctaiwan> http://gmailblog.blogspot.tw/2012/04/gmail-now-with-10-gb-of-storage-and.html >.> I didn't even realise
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08:13 < Isarra> Urgh.
08:13 < wctaiwan> good morning.
08:13 < Isarra> What's good about it?
08:14 < wctaiwan> that the sky hasn't fallen yet
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08:14 < Isarra> Get me some stronger painkillers and we'll talk.
08:15 < Isarra> Meantime I'm going to insist that it's utterly horrible.
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08:15 < wctaiwan> ><
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08:24 < Brooklyn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpzz1OBQays
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08:25 < mareklug> Brooklyn:  it would be  nice if you described the link as you post it
08:25 < Brooklyn> Simon's Cat - 1m
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08:25 < Brooklyn> nothing important
08:26 < Brooklyn> they're quite funny imo if you have a cat, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VLcLH97eRw
08:26 < wctaiwan> something about the strangle cat party
08:30 < Brooklyn> o
08:30 < Brooklyn> I emailed arbcom, not basc
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08:39 < russavia> http://www.jockular.com/15027/what-it-would-look-like-if-countries-said-goodbye-to-the-olympics-on-twitter-funny/page/1
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08:59 < norbit> ZOMG
08:59 < norbit> THERE"S A SQUIRREL OUT MY WINDOW
09:00 < Fluffernutter> omg, there's a guy who keeps changing names and confusing everybodfy for no reason in my irc window!
09:01 < wctaiwan> just one?
09:01 < Fluffernutter> just one that's jumping up and down and waving excitedly right now
09:02 < norbit> why is he chewing..
09:02 < norbit> on the roof
09:02 < norbit> o_O
09:02 < Jarry1250> MartijnH: I take it you got that working then?
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09:09 < norbit> Fluffernutter: he's so cute :O
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09:26 < Qcoder02> Afternoon people
09:26 < Qcoder02> Does anyone here know anything about level editing for Doom?
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09:39 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Qcoder02 no dinasours are available currently]
09:39 < Qcoder02> What's a more recent engine?
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09:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hmm
09:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> unreal?
09:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its only like 10 years old
09:43 < ToAruShiroiNeko> unlike doom which is easily 20+
09:44 < Fluffernutter> rawr i am a dinosaur
09:44  * Fluffernutter stomps on houses
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09:45 < Brooklyn> {{cn}}
09:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Fluffernutter hah
09:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> for all we know you are those tiny ones
09:46 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Brooke so you like your character? :)
09:46 < Brooklyn> http://backspace.com/notes/images/monopoly-house.jpg
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10:00 < mareklug> can you guys help ascertain where [[Olivia Bouyssou Merilahti]] of [[The Dø] was born?  An IP added that it was Paris, but she herself in an interview sai the band is from Paris and Helsinki.  She has French father and Finnish mother, went to school in Helsinki.
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10:06 < mareklug> "Je suis franco-finlandaise, née en France."
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10:10 < MartijnH> Jarry1250, I do, somewhat
10:10 < MartijnH> still haven't got everything I want, but it'll get there
10:10 < Jarry1250> Cool :)
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10:10 < MartijnH> it's going to be the client-side part of a longpolling thingy
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10:14 -!- DoRD is now known as DoRD|food
10:15 < mareklug> Sorry, we are unable to translate the page you requested.  http://www.metrofrance.com/fr/article/2008/01/13/18/3901-38/index.xml    <-- first time I see this.  Google is pissing me off
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10:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug hah
10:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its xml
10:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> thats why
10:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> dump text to the translator box
10:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> also
10:18 < mareklug> that's so lame.   how do i get an html page link out of it?
10:18 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it got translated on my chrome window
10:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> which uses google translate
10:19 < ToAruShiroiNeko> maybe you experienced a server glitch?
10:19 < mareklug> no, repeats
10:20 -!- Shearonink [62a9f0a1@wikipedia/Shearonink] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:21 < mareklug> indeed, chrome offers to translate it and does it.  why does this fail off-chrome...
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10:22 -!- Anto|away is now known as Antonorsi
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10:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mareklug no clue
10:29 -!- mareklug [~mareklug@wikipedia/mareklug] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:29 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-174-111-088-120.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
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10:37  * Isarra steals jorm's enormous edit button and runs away with it, cackling.
10:37 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
10:37 < Fluffernutter> oh dear, who didn't give Isarra her meds this morning
10:37 < Isarra> Yes, someone please give me some painkillers.
10:37 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Fluffernutter I blame Brooke
10:37 < Isarra> Much obliged.
10:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Isarra no killing!
10:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> pain relievers, sure
10:38 < Isarra> I'm not killing anyone.
10:38 -!- Spacewalker [~Spacewalk@frnk-590d0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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10:38 < Isarra> Well, maybe a skin or two, and whoever designed this... er...
10:38 < Isarra> Crap dammit I need to stop getting distracted by shinies.
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10:41  * Ironholds gives Isarra her meds
10:41  * Isarra overdoses.
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10:46  * Peter-C flips over a car
10:46 < Peter-C> I want a Spider
10:47 < Peter-C> or a 911
10:47 < MartijnH> I want a Lotus Elise. Cheap, practical, roomy
10:47  * Ironholds recusitates Isarra
10:47 < Peter-C> ew
10:47 < MartijnH> well, maybe not practical
10:48 < MartijnH> or roomy
10:48 < Fluffernutter> I want a million dollars. Which I will not spend on a penis-length-compensating car.
10:48 < MartijnH> or all that cheap. it is compared to a 911 though
10:48 < mareklug> you want a spider, you want a 911, you want to be an EMT, you want to go to medical school, you want to go to Vanderbilt.   you're an expensive child. :)
10:48 < Isarra> I want effective painkillers.
10:49 < Peter-C> Fluffernutter - you will need to spend a lot to compensate for your penis
10:49 < Peter-C> ._.
10:49 < Peter-C> mareklug - I try :3
10:50 < Peter-C> I will have 7 cars, one for every day of the week
10:50 < Peter-C> And I *am* an EMT
10:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mmm
10:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> but will you be an EMT on wheels or on meals?
10:51 < Peter-C> O-o
10:51  * ToAruShiroiNeko moves Peter-C's user space to "on wheels"
10:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I wonder what happened to WoW
10:51 < Peter-C> ?
10:52 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://www.thinkdigit.com/Internet/Top-10-Trolls-in-Internet-History_3261.html
10:52 < ToAruShiroiNeko> ah
10:52 < ToAruShiroiNeko> on top 10
10:52 -!- Brooklyn [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:52 -!- Brooklyn is now known as jc33
10:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-October/031780.html
10:53 -!- AzaToth [~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:53 < ToAruShiroiNeko> how interesting
10:54 -!- jorm [~bharris@wikimedia/jorm] has quit [Quit: jorm]
10:54 < russavia_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/539135_367714856635896_503318467_n.jpg  i know how she feels
10:54 -!- jc33 [~jc33@unaffiliated/jc33] has quit [Client Quit]
10:54 -!- Jayflux [~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:54 < Fluffernutter> ?
10:55 -!- Mdann52 [~androirc@wikipedia/Mdann52] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:56 -!- jubo2 [~jubo2@188-67-105-252.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #wikipedia-en
10:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> russavia_ you let people carry you around?
10:56 < ToAruShiroiNeko> what are you? furniture? :p
10:56 < russavia_> it's getting me out of the car that's the hard part
10:57 -!- Mdann52 [~androirc@wikipedia/Mdann52] has quit [Client Quit]
10:57 < russavia_> generally, the door gets opened, i get pushed out and rolled down the hill towards my front door
10:59 < Peter-C> Some sick bastard just shot a lambo >:|
11:00 < mareklug> http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/08/14/report-ron-palillo-who-played-horshack-on-welcome-back-kotter-dead-heart-attack/    :(
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11:04 < Pharos> Brooklyn mourns
11:05 -!- Fluffernutter is now known as Fluff|mtg
11:06 < Pharos> my uncle taiught at that high school fro 20 years
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11:17 < Qcoder02> Hi Peter-C
11:17 < Qcoder02> Where are you in your EMS coures?
11:18  * Guerillero is not thrilled
11:20 < Guerillero> brb
11:20 -!- Guerillero [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Guerillero] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]]
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11:28 < Jeske_Merensky> Aezop, tell me a story with a good moral.
11:29 < aezop> go fuck yourself
11:31 < Ironholds> aezop: be nice, please.
11:31 < aezop> that was considerably nicer than I had originally planned
11:32 < Ironholds> be nicer, then :)
11:33 < aezop> ironholds, want to hear a story with bad morals?
11:35 -!- tonynoname3 [~tonynonam@pool-108-44-27-91.albyny.east.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:36 < MartijnH> SOURCES, WHY U CONTRADICT (also, why my most reliable source my least [[WP:RS]])
11:37 -!- tonynoname [~tonynonam@pool-108-44-27-91.albyny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
11:37 < MartijnH> (also, where did the verb go?)
11:37 -!- equity_ is now known as equity
11:38 < PeterSymonds> Summer break of course.
11:39 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:39 < Guerillero> lol
11:39 < Guerillero> do you have office hours soon ironholds
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11:41 < yuvipanda> ragesoss: https://minus.com/mLqkASDsa/2 :)
11:42 < ragesoss> oooh, getting fancier!
11:43 -!- Spacewalker [~Spacewalk@frnk-590d0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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11:43 < Guerillero> a signpost app?
11:43 < ragesoss> yep
11:43 < Guerillero> :D
11:44 < Guerillero> exciting
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11:48 < yuvipanda> ragesoss: :)
11:48 -!- IShadowed_ [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
11:48 < yuvipanda> ragesoss: I've one cache issue to fix before I can push out a beta
11:48 < ragesoss> cool
11:48 < yuvipanda> Guerillero: would you be interested in using it too?
11:50 < russavia_> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cornishball.PNG  does anyone know how i can easily get rid of the red leftover?
11:50 -!- jorm [~bharris@wikimedia/jorm] has joined #wikipedia-en
11:50 < russavia_> an easy way that is
11:50 -!- russavia_ is now known as russavia
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11:51 < Guerillero> yuvipanda: yes :)
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12:00 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Isarra have you seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQmYF35w74 ?
12:00 < Ironholds> Guerillero: office hours..NOW
12:00 < mysterytrey> About?
12:00 < Ironholds> in fact, everyone; page curation/new pages feed, office hours, now, #wikimedia-office
12:00 -!- bharris [~bharris@216.38.130.162] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:01 -!- Trenton is now known as jc33
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12:01 < jc33> can you see this?
12:01 < jc33> I guess so.
12:01 < jc33> ja ja
12:01 < jc33> "Lag 19.28 seconds" 9_9
12:01 < Isarra> ToAruShiroiNeko: Nope, and I won't.
12:01 < jc33> oh shit
12:01 -!- jc33 is now known as Trenton
12:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> aw
12:01 -!- bharris_ [~bharris@216.38.130.162] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:01 -!- bharris [~bharris@216.38.130.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> it was dovah kids
12:01 < ToAruShiroiNeko> "The Elder Scrolls Adventures with the Dovahkids"
12:02 -!- bharris_ [~bharris@216.38.130.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:02 < Ironholds> IShadowed_, you know you want to
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12:04 < Jeske_Merensky> ....
12:04 < Jeske_Merensky> TASN, take that idea and throw it into the nearest bonfire.
12:06 -!- foks [~sup@wikipedia/fox] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:06 < Ironholds> fokseh! office hours!
12:07 -!- DoRD|food is now known as DoRD
12:08 -!- chicocvenancio2 [~chicocven@wikipedia/Chicocvenancio] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
12:08 < foks> Ironholds, ATF5?
12:08 < mysterytrey> foks: New Page Feed
12:09 < Ironholds> foks: NPT
12:09 < foks> ah
12:09 < foks> The mythical New Page Teed.
12:09 < foks> (or Triage ;) )
12:09 < Ironholds> mythical?
12:09 < Ironholds> it's at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:NewPagesFeed :P
12:10 < foks> (Teed)
12:13 -!- DesiLover [b6b23b73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.178.59.115] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:14 < mysterytrey> Isarra: What did you mean by talkheaders?
12:14 < DesiLover> 10ich PakistaniLover15 Skype moje ko add karooo
12:14 < mysterytrey> :(
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12:15 -!- Gfoley4 [~Gfoley4@wikipedia/Gfoley4] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:16 < IShadowed_> Ironholds, I know I want to what
12:16 < Ironholds> IShadowed_: office hours
12:16 -!- Thoreau [~R@sm1-84-91-37-56.netvisao.pt] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:16 < DesiLover> 10inch Pakistani Penis Skyppe moje ko add karo
12:16 < Ironholds> are you black? are you an american? do you like new page patrol?
12:16 < DesiLover> PakistaniLover15
12:16 < Isarra> mysterytrey: They're BEIGE!
12:17 < Ironholds> wait, I may be confusing things
12:17 < Isarra> It's hideous.
12:17 < Ironholds> !ops
12:17 < IShadowed_> :P
12:17 < DesiLover> why ops you no like
12:17 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o PeterSymonds] by ChanServ
12:17 < Gfoley4> behave
12:17 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.178.59.115] by PeterSymonds
12:17 -!- DesiLover [b6b23b73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.178.59.115] has left #wikipedia-en [requested by PeterSymonds (DesiLover)]
12:17 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-o PeterSymonds] by ChanServ
12:17 < Gfoley4> PeterSymonds: behave
12:18 < jubo2> he is still in #wikipedia
12:18 < PeterSymonds> You behave!
12:19 < mysterytrey> So why is wikipedia so fond of random shades of beige?
12:21 < Mdann52> Because we're all random :2
12:21 < Ironholds> <DesiLover> pakistani ho hindustani ho??
12:21 < Ironholds> <DesiLover> or bengalio
12:21 < Ironholds> <Ironholds> I'm sure that's important
12:21 < Ironholds> <DesiLover> mera laand kaab kaogeyi yaar
12:21 < Ironholds> <Ironholds> and she sounds lovely; have you introduced her to your mother
12:21 < Ironholds> I love trolling the trolls
12:21 -!- Jarry1250 [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:21 < Mdann52> :)
12:22 < mysterytrey> You should join #freenode.
12:22 < Gfoley4> I think they don't want you to do that.
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12:28 < Isarra> mysterytrey: Because wikipedians have no sense of aesthetics.
12:28 -!- Corey [~Corey@freenode/staff/corey] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:31 < mysterytrey> Apparently desilove is in wikipedia-de too.
12:32 < Pharos> he's a popular guy
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12:33 < mysterytrey> It makes sense that there is no internet-explorer/community/* cloak.  Who would want one?
12:34 -!- Spacewalker_ [~Spacewalk@firefox/community/Spacewalker] has joined #wikipedia-en
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12:39 < Pharos> User:Bgates
12:39 < mysterytrey> Seriously?
12:39 < mysterytrey> Bill Gates has a wikipedia account?
12:39 < mysterytrey> o_O
12:40 < Mdann52> Indeffed for vandalism :)
12:40 < Mdann52> So possibly not him
12:40 < PeterSymonds> When it's Bgates (WMF), you need to worry.
12:41 < mysterytrey> 2 edits and he's indeffed.  That's nice.
12:41 < Mdann52> Only page blaming
12:41 < Mdann52> Blanking
12:42 < Jeske_Merensky> I blame Mdann52's spellchecker.
12:42 -!- Logan_ [~Logan@wikimedia/Logan] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
12:42 < Pharos> i think he would be a good hire
12:42 < mysterytrey> As long as there is no Steve Jobs (grave) account, were good.
12:42 < mysterytrey> Too soon?
12:42 -!- diegogrez_ [~diegogrez@190-20-92-249.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #wikipedia-en
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12:42 < Mdann52> Predictive texting is the problem Jeske
12:43 < Mdann52> Never go on IRC on a phone
12:43 -!- diegogrez [~diegogrez@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:44 < Pharos> maybe User:Bgates should appply for a Community Fellowship
12:44 < Pharos> 'Fellow for Billionaire Outreach'
12:44 -!- Elduen [~elduen@unaffiliated/andorin] has joined #wikipedia-en
12:46 < mysterytrey> I'm not exactly sure NPT makes NPP easier.
12:46 < Pharos> someone remind me if i'm ever elected to high political office, to edit under my real name
12:46 < Tony_Sidaway> I use a phone quite a lot on IRC. My most infamous keyboard blunders have, ironically, come from a qwerty keyboard when using an unfamiliar operating system.
12:47 < Pharos> 23:13, 7 November 2006 Mike Rosoft (talk | contribs | block) blocked POTUS (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (Impostor of POTUS - if not, then please e-mail the Wikimedia Foundation to verify the account. :-))
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12:49 < Pharos> did anyone remrember ti check otrs for that one?
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12:52 < Pharos> wow, I could usurp User:Broklyn if i wanted to
12:52 < Pharos> User:Brooklyn
12:53 < Pharos> maybe i should save it as a gift
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13:03 < Fluffernutter> anyone else having loading issues?
13:03 -!- YE is now known as YE|NBA2k12
13:04 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has quit [Client Quit]
13:05 < Guerillero> yes
13:05 < Jarry1250> What sort of loading issues?
13:05  * Fluffernutter just got out of a meeting, was looking forward to a watchlist check, and :(
13:06 -!- rejuvyesh [~rejuvyesh@202.3.77.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:06 < Jarry1250> And whereabouts are you in the world?
13:07 < Jarry1250> Fluffernutter?
13:07 < Jarry1250> Oh, sorry.
13:07 < Jarry1250> I see you saw.
13:07  * Fluffernutter sees alllll *wiggles fingers in a woo-woo motion*
13:08 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:08 < Jarry1250> Guerillero: still having issues?
13:09 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has quit [Client Quit]
13:10 -!- Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
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13:11 < Guerillero> no
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13:13 < Guerillero> brb
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13:14 < Fluffernutter> am I here?
13:14 -!- Guerillero [~chatzilla@pool-71-162-19-38.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
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13:14 < Jeske_Merensky> No, you're there
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13:15  * Peter-C licks GorillaWarfare and runs
13:15  * Peter-C hands GorillaWarfare over a Peter-C towel
13:16  * GorillaWarfare continues to nom her deluxe bacon cheeseburger
13:16 < Peter-C> :O
13:16 < Peter-C> Can I have one :3
13:17 < jubo2> I'm going to fry some pork outer fillet cuts and put 'em in a gouda-cheeze bun
13:17 < jubo2> I wish I had bacon
13:17 < GorillaWarfare> That also sounds good
13:17 < GorillaWarfare> All I've eaten today was a muffin at 7:30 and a couple of home fries
13:17 -!- Restmalo [~Restmalo@93-96-105-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:17 < jubo2> 400g of pork outer fillets cost 2.49€ ( poor pork rearers )
13:18 < GorillaWarfare> And massive amounts of coffee, naturally
13:18 < Guerillero> Hehe
13:18 < Guerillero> I do not get klout
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13:19 < jubo2> It's the chantarel season - gotta make some of this for friends - http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/User:Juxo/Kitchenblog#Mushrooms_in_cream_.26_dijon_sauce
13:20 < Qcoder02> http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/assange-to-be-granted-asylum-in-ecuador - Better watch relevant articles
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13:27 < Qcoder02> Seen BarkingFish?
13:27 -!- bleh3rs1343 [~3dos@c-107-4-182-55.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:28 < Trenton> !votes
13:28 < Trenton> err
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13:28 -!- greenrosetta [~greenrose@unaffiliated/greenrosetta] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:28 < Trenton>  whois reveals they aren't on freenode atm
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13:36 < Noommos> Quite the edit war at Snooker season 2012/2013
13:37 < xiaolongbao> mmm.
13:38 < xiaolongbao> [[WP:WILLNOTPASS]] should exist.
13:39 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:42 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:42 < Kenneaal> What about [[WP:YOUSHALLNOTPASS]]?
13:42 < The_Thing> lol
13:43 -!- Fluffernutter [Fluffernut@wikipedia/Fluffernutter] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:44 < xiaolongbao> nice dyk, "... that Zeus was discovered on Mount Olympus?"
13:44 < xiaolongbao> [[Zeus (fungus)]]
13:44 < Fluffernutter> the art of a good hook is so uncommon these days
13:46 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
13:47 < foks> I'll bet it's so nice that someone complains it's misleading.
13:48 -!- BarkingFish [~BarkingFi@wikimedia/BarkingFish] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:48 < IRWolfie-> there an oversight channel?
13:48 < IRWolfie-> or anyone here with oversight?
13:48 -!- ragesoss [~sage@wikimedia/ragesoss] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:48 < BarkingFish> yes, but it's restricted to oversighters only, IRWolfie- afaik
13:49 < BlastHardcheese> there's an e-mail address for requests
13:49 -!- xiaolongbao [~Trenton@unaffiliated/jc33] has left #wikipedia-en []
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13:49 < BarkingFish> if you want an oversighter, there's at least one or two usually here, or you can go to http://enwp.org/Special:EmailUser/Oversight
13:49 < xiaolongbao> did I leave? :S
13:49 < BarkingFish> yep
13:49 -!- Thoreau [~R@sm1-84-91-37-56.netvisao.pt] has joined #wikipedia-en
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13:51 < Fluffernutter> IRWolfie-, I'm here(ish). PM me what you need
13:51 < foks> IRWolfie-, you can use !_oversight
13:51 < foks> There are so few of us that nobody really minds when you ping ;)
13:51 < The_Thing> But without the _
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13:52 < foks> Clearly.
13:52 < The_Thing> Like this: !Översight
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13:53 -!- Restmalo [~Restmalo@93-96-105-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
13:53 < foks> Ouversight
13:53 < The_Thing> or !ádmin
13:53 < The_Thing> :p
13:53 < xiaolongbao> or !ȭṽễȑsight
13:53 < xiaolongbao> :P
13:54 < harej> 10538 Oversight
13:55 -!- Pingthemall [4c1b6b79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.107.121] has joined #wikipedia-en
13:55 < Pingthemall> Or this: !o̷̢p̕ !̧͢͜a͢dmi̴ņ̷ ̕!҉͏śt̵̨͝è̴w͘a̢r̨d̵̕͞ ̧͡!͏͏ov͜͟e̡͢rs҉͢i̧g̛h́t̢̀ ̨!c͜hę͘͠c҉ku̵͜se̢r̴ !̨st̢̕҉a̸̕ff̶
13:55 -!- Pingthemall [4c1b6b79@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.107.121] has quit [Client Quit]
13:55 < The_Thing> harej: 10583?
13:56 -!- Froodaway is now known as Frood
13:57 < harej> Musical reference.
13:57 < harej> Pingthemall? More like Pingthezalgo.
13:58  * Fluffernutter didn't know they let people in utah use computers. Surely the mormon gods frown on electro boxes of magic?
13:58 -!- xiaolongbao [~Trenton@unaffiliated/jc33] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]]
13:59 < harej> You must not know who Maddox is, then.
14:00 < harej> If he still lives in Salt Lake City, I feel bad for him, son.
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14:02 < Shearonink> I wish people would learn how to use the Preview button, these teeny tiny edits that clog up an edit history
14:02 < Shearonink> gack
14:02 < Frood> well, to be fair, sometimes previewing doesn't work well
14:03 < Frood> like if you have to purge the cache
14:03  * Peter-C licks Frood
14:03 < Frood> i'm all sweaty
14:03 < Frood> so.
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14:06 < Shearonink> I was just trying to figure out ths edit history
14:06 -!- WilliamH_UK [WilliamH@Wikipedia/WilliamH] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:06 < Shearonink> an the edits are a comma & then a space & then & then
14:07 -!- harej [~quassel@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
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14:11 < Frood> Wow.
14:11 < Frood> Mediacom is seriously awful.
14:11 < Frood> They have a bandwidth cap
14:11 < Frood> Only for people who "signed a contract after August 1, 2012"
14:11 < Frood> or added/changed services after that date
14:11 < Frood> But the cap applies to everybody
14:11 -!- TBloemink is now known as TB|Away
14:12 < Frood> People who had plans before that aren't charged for any overages
14:12 < Frood> So everybody is limited, but they let existing customers go over?
14:12 < ToAruShiroiNeko> ie people after 1 august is paying for that
14:13 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:13  * SigmaWP pokes Elduen 
14:13 < IRWolfie-> Shearonink: you would hate my edit history
14:13 < IRWolfie-> The amount of minor edits I make would make you cry
14:13 < IRWolfie-> :|
14:14  * Elduen disintegrates SigmaWP.
14:14 < Shearonink> heh IRWolfie-
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14:14 < Shearonink> Preview is your Friend
14:15 < IRWolfie-> I generally preview article space, but not elsewhere, it can really delay a discussion and then you get the edit conflicts :|
14:15 < SigmaWP> sonia: Hi!
14:15 < sonia> hey!
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14:31 < Ironholds> WE HAVE DEPLOYMENT
14:31 < Ironholds> *cues the lightning, thunder, rain and single wolf howling while silouetted against a hill*
14:31 < WilliamH_UK> that's what she said
14:31 < Fluffernutter> heh
14:31 < Ironholds> eh. women have said worse things to me
14:31  * Fluffernutter waits for everything to break in a hail of fire, brimstone, and whining internet geeks
14:32 < SigmaWP> I found an ancient computer with Red Hat 2 on it
14:33 -!- tdubz [~thomas@freenode/staff/thomas] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:33 < sonia> SigmaWP, here in NZ they still sell brand new all-in-one PCs or whatever that have 1TB hard drives but Pentium 4 processors
14:33 < sonia> "top of the range with 6GB RAM!"
14:33 < SigmaWP> :O
14:33 < sonia> it's fucking hilarious
14:34 < SigmaWP> Do you use one of those? :P
14:34 < sonia> nope :P
14:37 -!- Gnumarcoo [~Marco@wikipedia/Gnumarcoo] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:37 < Noommos> Could somebody a stop to the reverting at Snooker season 2012/2013? they're at about 20 reverts now
14:37 < SigmaWP> Armbrust again.
14:37  * SigmaWP sighs
14:38 < Noommos> mmhm
14:38 < Ironholds> Noommos: proper link, plz?
14:38 < SigmaWP> Ironholds: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Snooker_season_2012/2013&action=history
14:38 < Isarra> Is this normal?
14:38 < Ironholds> okie-dokes, blocking both of them
14:39 < WilliamH_UK> didn't realise Armbrust was trying to torpedo a future possible RFA, but there you go
14:39 < SigmaWP> He torpedoed it a long time ago
14:39 < sonia> ^
14:39 < BarkingFish> Ironholds: Uh-oh.  What did you <S>break</S> er, deploy to the masses now? :)
14:39 < Peter-C> WHY TV WHY
14:40 < Peter-C> Why do medics give epi directly to the heart
14:40 < Fluffernutter> 20R?
14:40 < Fluffernutter> goodness
14:40 < Peter-C> stupid tv
14:40 < Fluffernutter> what in the hell are those two smoking
14:40 < Ironholds> BarkingFish: improvements to Special:NewPages!
14:40 < SigmaWP> "The page initially didn't include this. If you want to include them, than you need consensus for it. If there is consensus for an edit, than there is no need for consensus to revert it. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0 21:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC) "
14:40 -!- WilliamH_UK [WilliamH@Wikipedia/WilliamH] has left #wikipedia-en []
14:40 -!- tdubz is now known as thomas
14:40 -!- James_F is now known as James_F|Away
14:41 < BarkingFish> Ironholds, ah, nice. You don't happen to know who broke Rollback do you? :)
14:41 < SigmaWP> Fluffernutter: It's called WP:BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD!
14:41 < Fluffernutter> heh
14:41 < Isarra> How is it broken?
14:42 < BarkingFish> On rollback now, I get a box with this in it:  [Rollback more than 10 edits] or [Rollback more than 5 edits], next door to [Rollback] and [Rollback]... what the flying fuck is going on?
14:42 < SigmaWP> Ironholds: I was expecting at least 2 weeks, considering his history
14:42 < Noommos> There's another IP editor involved as well, but I don't believe he's reverted in a little while
14:42 < Fluffernutter> BarkingFish: it does exactly the same thing. it's just showing you how many of that persons' consecutive edits you'll roll bacck if you hit "rollback"
14:43 < Ironholds> SigmaWP: good point, actually. 1 week it is.
14:43 -!- Courcelles_ [~chatzilla@ool-18b948d6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:43 < Ironholds> BarkingFish: that would be platform
14:43 < Ironholds> who deployed a change to all wikis based on the fact that a couple of non-editing devs decided in 2009 it would be a good idea, and told nobody in advance.
14:43 < BarkingFish> Fluffernutter, ah, I thought that was an extra option - like rollback all of the users edits in one go...
14:43 < Fluffernutter> BarkingFish: yeah I did too at first, took me a while to puzzle it out
14:43  * sonia hugs Courcelles_ 
14:43 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:44 < Fluffernutter> i think he's a zombie, sonia
14:44 < sonia> braiiiins
14:44 < BarkingFish> Ironholds, a little bit of advanced warning would not go amiss.  It doesn't hurt to tell people when you're f***ing about with sh*t :)
14:44 < BarkingFish> oh damn... hold on
14:44 < BarkingFish> sorry, that's fucking better :)
14:45 < sonia> auto-censor?
14:45  * BarkingFish switched on his censor plugin by mistake. Thought he'd deleted that ages ago.
14:45 < Isarra> What's wrong with it counting the number of edits?
14:45 < Isarra> Personally I quite like it.
14:45  * diegogrez_ wants somebody to review his dyk nom, duh (once again asking)
14:45 < Fluffernutter> lol
14:45 < BarkingFish> Isarra, creature feep.
14:45 < BarkingFish> more shit, less function
14:45 < Isarra> The feature was already there.
14:45 < Isarra> It just displays differently.
14:45 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:45 < Isarra> Does exactly the same thing.
14:45 < BarkingFish> i'd not seen it until today
14:45 < Isarra> The feature is rollback.
14:46 < Isarra> It is still rollback, still rolls back.
14:46 -!- Steven_Zhang [~Steven_Zh@wikimedia/Steven-Zhang] has quit [Quit: Steven_Zhang]
14:46 -!- Courcelles_ is now known as Courcelles
14:46 < SigmaWP> "
14:46 < SigmaWP> For Σ (Display watched changes | View and edit watchlist | Edit raw watchlist)Feedback from my watched pages »
14:46 < SigmaWP> Jump to: navigation, search"
14:46 < BarkingFish> fair enough. so why does this new thingy only display now? :)
14:46 < SigmaWP> Why are people changing the watchlist without telling anyone?
14:46  * Fluffernutter agrees with Isarra. But then, I generally oppose the idea of wailing and gnashing teeth when something is changed but doesn't break anything
14:46 < BarkingFish> i don't mind it, i just people would warn us when they fuck with things :)
14:47 < BarkingFish> *i just wish
14:47 < Isarra> The warning is the fact that mediawiki is under development.
14:47 < Isarra> They are always fucking with things.
14:47 < Ironholds> SigmaWP: you mean the notice I posted on the village pump wasn't telling anyone?
14:47 < Ironholds> huh
14:47 < Fluffernutter> BarkingFish: I wish there was a very public changelog somewhere. I mean i'm sure I could figure out what changes are made when, if i knew where to look, but an actual changelog, easily findable, would be really nice
14:47 < Ironholds> well, you got me. guess I didn't say shit.
14:47 < SigmaWP> Don't these things usually go to AN?
14:47 < Ironholds> Fluffernutter: totally agreed
14:47 < Isarra> Ironholds: You expect people to look there?
14:47 < Ironholds> SigmaWP: changes to the watchlist? good point, I'll cross-post. thanks.
14:47 < Isarra> Clearly you've been away from the masses too long.
14:47 -!- James_F|Away is now known as James_F
14:48 < Ironholds> Isarra: no, but when people complain about it, they go there to complain and see the comment
14:48 < BarkingFish> Fluffernutter, I'd go with that.  A public changelog would be USEFUL... (hint)
14:48 < Isarra> And Fluffernutter makes a good point. I always just assumed there was one, though, and never bothered to look...
14:48 -!- Keegan_ [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Keegan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:48 < James_F> Umm.
14:48 < James_F> There is a public changelog.
14:48 < Isarra> Ironholds: Or they completely miss the comment and complain there anyway. :P
14:49 < Isarra> James_F: HAH! I was right!
14:49 < Fluffernutter> James_F: you miss the "easily findable" part, I think.
14:49 < BarkingFish> James_F, Easily findable, as Fluffernutter suggests?
14:49 < James_F> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.20/wmf9
14:49 < Isarra> On mediawikiwiki somewhere, I assume?
14:49 < James_F> There. Found it.
14:49 < Isarra> Oh.
14:49 < Fluffernutter> Hint: if I, as a user of en.wp, have to go off en.wp to some godforsaken other wiki and hope I can find the right wiki and the right page? Not easily findable.
14:49  * Elduen tilts his head.
14:49 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has joined #wikipedia-en
14:49 < BarkingFish> Yeah. That's not easily findable, James_F - easily findable is a link to it out of the WP interface, or at the village pump, or sidebar
14:49 < Isarra> Fluffernutter: You should make a page on enwp that automatically links to the current one.
14:49 < James_F> Fluffernutter: The world doesn't rotate around enwiki, or even our English-language projects. :-)
14:50 < Isarra> Then people can just follow that there.
14:50 < Ironholds> James_F: no, but it does relate around our projects.
14:50 < James_F> BarkingFish: So, you want cross-wiki watchlists? :-)
14:50 < Ironholds> and mediawiki is not considered one by, well, anyone except devs ;p
14:50 < Fluffernutter> James_F: My point is, on the wikis where the platform is deployed, there needs to be info abotu the platform
14:50 < James_F> Fluffernutter: [[Help:About]]?
14:50 < Ironholds> Fluffernutter: I reached this conclusion 6 months ago. Continue feeding my ego ;p
14:50 < James_F> Fluffernutter: ... which is pulled from mediawiki.org.
14:50 < Fluffernutter> Ironholds, tell James_F he's being a prat
14:50  * shimgray notes that this is a bit of a problem, as heavy cross-wiki publicising of changes gets people riled about spam
14:50 < Ironholds> shall do. James_F? you're a prat.
14:50 < James_F> shimgray: Exactly.
14:50 < shimgray> you hit problems wherever the line is
14:50  * Elduen wanders in and sits down, thoroughly confused.
14:51 < James_F> Ironholds: Hush, you.
14:51  * Elduen notes that this is normal.
14:51 < shimgray> that said, James, you do need to veer closer to the spammy side :-)
14:51 < BarkingFish> James_F, There's a lot of stuff I'd like to see go crosswiki, like the new messages banner, etc.
14:51  * Isarra hits Elduen with a frying pan.
14:51 < Ironholds> okay, okay
14:51 < Ironholds> look
14:51 < Isarra> Why are enwpedians so damn lazy?
14:51 < Ironholds> in 3, 4 months? we'll have a cross-wiki notifications system
14:51 < James_F> shimgray: Working on it.
14:51 < Ironholds> we can post changes there. would that make people happy?
14:51 < Isarra> Ironholds: And everyone will hate it.
14:51 < shimgray> even if it's a notice going to VPs saying "this is your weekly notice, changes  can be found here"
14:51 < Ironholds> Isarra: but they'll hate it in an INFORMED FASHION ;p
14:51 < James_F> shimgray: For now, the news is: "we're working on it, and would love your thoughts".
14:51 < Isarra> No they won't!
14:52 < shimgray> (otoh, maybe we could go yell at the Signpost to cover it more)
14:52 < Isarra> They'll be horribly surprised!
14:52 < Fluffernutter> I have this problem with a lot of cross-wiki stuff. Sure, I know the mediawiki wiki exists. I know meta exists. I know outreach exists. But if I need info on some aspect of something that's affecting en.wp, it's nigh-on impossible to be informed of that info unless you go hunting around randomly
14:52 < James_F> shimgray: On how many of our 708 wikis? Or are you asking for enwiki to get special treatment?
14:52 < Isarra> The sort of surprised like I get every time I go on wikipedia and realise I'm on wikipedia because what the bloody hell am I doing on wikipedia?!
14:52 < BarkingFish> that would be good, shimgray - except for the people WHO DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO SIGNPOST!!!!  >.<
14:52 < James_F> Fluffernutter: ENOTIF on your mediawikiwiki watchlist not enough?
14:52 < Isarra> I mean...
14:52 < Fluffernutter> Like, IEP-related content was on three or four different wikis. I am convinced they did that on purpose, to make it hard to follow
14:52  * Elduen flinches.
14:52 < shimgray> James_F, I can think of worse ideas than a crosswiki bot running 700 times, if it wasn't for the localisation issue
14:53 < James_F> BarkingFish: At some point we give up. If you're unwilling to read the Signpost, read the mailing lists, or follow the changes on the development wiki, how much time (read: money) should we spend?
14:53 < James_F> shimgray: So, English language cultural imperialism is OK? ;-)
14:53 < BarkingFish> James_F, I did not say I was unwilling to read signpost, or the mailing lists, or follow the changes.
14:53 < shimgray> BarkingFish, well, we don't *have* many central ways of sending things out on enwiki. there are people who complain about bad notification when it's in sitenotices...
14:54 < shimgray> the signpost is the regular-circulation tool we have.
14:54  * Fluffernutter unsubscribed from most of the mailing lists when i realized they consisted entirely of angry men shouting at each other over things that had no bearing on anything, and that any actual content there was so obscured by the name-calling that I wouldn't notice it anyway
14:54 < Ironholds> indeed
14:54 < Ironholds> so, here's the thing, James_F
14:54 < Ironholds> I'm an enwiki user. you've made changes to my environment.
14:54 < James_F> Fluffernutter: Some of them are women. But yes, still angry.
14:54 < BarkingFish> What I said was - people don't always subscribe to signpost - I didn't know about the public changelog until you mentioned it, and the mailing lists are a pain in the ass :)
14:54 < BarkingFish> tl;dr in a big way
14:54 < Ironholds> for me to find out in advance, you want me to go outside my environment, to somewhere alien and unfamiliar, where I have no standing or identity and potentially a different skin, populated by people I don't know
14:54 < James_F> Ironholds: We're talking about VE development here. VE hasn't made any changes to enwiki or anyone other than mediawikiwiki.
14:55 < shimgray> James_F, hmm. it is understandably impractical to translate the changelog. but! how practical would it be to have "the software this runs on is being updated from VALUE to VALUE2, please see details here, sorry they are in English" as one of the default localisation strings?
14:55 < Ironholds> it is no different from a user perspective to send them to MW.org than to send them to wikia. or the Automattic blog.
14:55 < BarkingFish> Fluffernutter mentioned that an easily findable public changelog would be nice.  The public changelog you posted is far from easily findable - but now we know where it is, no doubt we'll probably follow it
14:55 < Ironholds> James_F: sure; I meant the earlier point of spam-versus-active-communications
14:55 < James_F> shimgray: It would be an identical message every fortnight, but sure, that should be possible.
14:55 < Fluffernutter> Like, let's look at it this way. BarkingFish and I are pretty experienced users. We get around the back reaches of WP. We've been here for a long time. We know where most of the pages with information are. And still, neither of us knew that log was there. This is evidence that it is perhaps not as obvious as you think, James_F.
14:55  * Ironholds nods
14:55 < shimgray> a bit of effort to begin with, but at least it gets around the problem of "no-one knows a change has happened"
14:55  * James_F will sling an e-mail at Sumana.
14:55 < Ironholds> James_F: please do.
14:56 < shimgray> and now we have done that, we can discuss nailing admins who live-experiment on mediawiki settings up. to the wall. by their ears.
14:56 < shimgray> *that* is immensely more annoying
14:56 < shimgray> and has less documentation
14:56 < BarkingFish> It's not a case of you spending money, James_F - it's a clear cut "if you want people to know where shit is, make it findable by people who actually want to read it :)"
14:57 < James_F> BarkingFish: I'm confused. What free resource will "make it findable"?
14:57 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:57 < Isarra> Wasn't there a link on the mainpage to the current version changelog before?
14:57 < Isarra> What happened to that?
14:57 < BarkingFish> James_F, an external link to the changelog planted in the sidebar on Wikipedia would do the job
14:58 < James_F> BarkingFish: That's amazingly heavy-weight for all but a tiny fraction of our users.
14:58 < Isarra> BarkingFish: And just how much do you want to add to the sidebar?
14:58 < BarkingFish> or one on the main page, or the footer bar on wp
14:58 -!- Guerillero [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Guerillero] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:58 < Ironholds> James_F: so stick it in the toolbox
14:58 < James_F> BarkingFish: The sidebar/mainpage/footer for enwiki are all over-bloated as it is.
14:58 < Ironholds> which is auto-collapsed under vector
14:58 -!- jubo2 [~jubo2@188-67-105-252.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Beams.]
14:58 < Ironholds> or, hey, send out a centralnotice
14:58 < IRWolfie-> adding something to the sidebar would be a bad idea
14:58 < Isarra> BarkingFish: Why not add a link to the technical village pump header?
14:59 < James_F> Ironholds: Toolbox is for page-/context-specific actions. Don't break the UX harder than it already is.
14:59 < BarkingFish> Yep, that would work too Isarra
14:59 < Isarra> So why don't you do it?
14:59  * Isarra grins.
14:59 < IRWolfie-> which log is being referred to?
14:59 < Isarra> Doesn't solve the issue of how people find it in the first place, but it's been found and so might as well use it.
15:00 < shimgray> BarkingFish, and here's the problem. that space is *valuable*. every extra link in the sidebar or the footer makes the links that are there that extra bit more cluttered.
15:00 < shimgray> and marginally less useful as a result
15:00 -!- MBisanz [~MBisanz@wikipedia/MBisanz] has quit []
15:00 < BarkingFish> shimgray, so how much less useful is a public changelog no bugger can find?
15:00 < IRWolfie-> aha it was linked above
15:01 < BarkingFish> we need to have a link to it somewhere
15:01 -!- Courcelles_ [~chatzilla@ool-18b948d6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:01 -!- LL2|Android [~LL2@wikipedia/LikeLakers2] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:01 < BarkingFish> where would you suggest putting it?
15:01 < Ironholds> well, how about this
15:01 < Ironholds> when we get notifications, a week in advance we'll send out a site-wide notification linking you to upcoming changes?
15:01 < shimgray> BarkingFish, sure. but there's a hundred other things that someone has said "hey, we should link to that prominently". it's a matter of how prominent is needed.
15:01 < shimgray> top of VPT, excellent idea.
15:02 < IRWolfie-> stick it in the newsletter?
15:02 < Fluffernutter> when changes are deployed is really when people wish they could find it
15:02 < shimgray> a link to recently added relevant entries in Bugzilla, too, maybe
15:02 < BarkingFish> Ironholds, that would be brilliant.
15:02 < James_F> BarkingFish: The changelog is mostly aimed at sysadmins of MW installs rather than specifically WMF installs. We sadly don't really have one written for our wikis. :-(
15:02 < Frood> People told me that after about a week we'd start hating the metronome over loudspeaker.
15:02 < James_F> BarkingFish: It will be brilliant, but only when we have notifications working. So... some time off. :-(
15:02 < Frood> Last night, I had a dream, and I heard the metronome. I hate it now.
15:02 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 542 seconds]
15:03 < norbit> Frood: what?
15:03  * norbit is confused
15:03 < Isarra> Okay, so for the meantime, how would you set up an automatically updating link to the current version stuff on mww?
15:03 < Isarra> Bot?
15:03 < shimgray> Ironholds - a week in advance means a notification displayed 50% of the time
15:03 < shimgray> http://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/04/12/mediawiki-1-20wmf1-deployment/
15:03 < James_F> IRWolfie-: Certainly it would be nice if the Signpost summarised (or just included a link to) the current version.
15:03 < LL2|Android> Y'know, when my mom gets mad at me, she gets rude
15:03 < shimgray> "We plan to deploy the latest software every two weeks."
15:03 < BarkingFish> James_F, no drama. As long as it's gonna be possible to know when something is being altered, that will be the key.  I've got a lot less resistant to change, over the last month or two, James_F - it just annoys me that stuff just gets changed, no notice, nothing.
15:03 -!- Courcelles [~chatzilla@ool-18b948d6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
15:03 -!- Courcelles_ is now known as Courcelles
15:04 < LL2|Android> Almost makes me want to live with my dad instead
15:04 < BarkingFish> I don't mind the change, I just wish I knew about it in advance.
15:04 < James_F> Isarra: The pages are created manually. I could ask Reedy to edit https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/latest to #REDIRECT[[<whatever>]]. :-)
15:04 < LL2|Android> I spilled my dinner on the couch  by accident a few minutes ago
15:04 < James_F> BarkingFish: Oh, completely agree.
15:04 < Fluffernutter> BarkingFish: well, let's be fair. most of the time, it's very easy for you to know something's been altered - something that ought to work will stop doing so!
15:04 < Isarra> BarkingFish: Here's the thing - things are always being altered. That's what biweekly releases mean.
15:04 < LL2|Android> And yes, she got mad
15:04 < James_F> BarkingFish: Oh, completely agree.
15:04 < James_F> Bah.
15:05 < Isarra> James_F: That'd work nicely.
15:05 < James_F> Isarra: Kk. Will e-mail. :-)
15:05 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:05 -!- Fluffernutter [Fluffernut@wikipedia/Fluffernutter] has quit [Quit: hometime]
15:05 < BarkingFish> Fluffernutter, yeah - but then there's the things that get changed that don't break something, but which confuse you - like the rollback thingy I mentioned :)
15:05  * Isarra considers throwing a brick at Reedy just to see what happens.
15:05 < BarkingFish> ah bollocks :)
15:05 < mysterytrey> Armbrust got blocked?
15:06 < mysterytrey> Oh. 3rr
15:06 < Peter-C> omfg, CS:GO!
15:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> mmm
15:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Isarra I tried that
15:06 < Peter-C> Frood - did you preordeR?
15:06 < ToAruShiroiNeko> brick on brick doesnt do much
15:06 < Isarra> Ack.
15:06 -!- diegogrez_ [~diegogrez@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
15:06 < Frood> Peter-C: I didn't.
15:06 < Peter-C> :(
15:06 -!- Moe_Epsilon [~David@wikipedia/Moe-Epsilon] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:07 -!- Anurag2k12 [~Anurag2k1@bas2-cooksville01-2925346470.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:07 < Isarra> James_F: Thank you.
15:07 < James_F> Isarra: That's what I'm here for.
15:07 < James_F> Oh, wait.
15:07 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has quit [Client Quit]
15:07 < James_F> No, that's what Ironholds is here for.
15:07 < James_F> I'm here to make VE awesome.
15:07 < James_F> Or something.
15:08 < Isarra> You're here to make up for the fact that Ironholds is the one who's supposed to be here for this sort of thing.
15:08  * Isarra runs.
15:08 < LL2|Android> Lol
15:08  * James_F coughs.
15:09 -!- foks [~sup@wikipedia/fox] has quit [Quit: !]
15:09 -!- Tasmania [Elite1926@unaffiliated/tasmania] has quit [Excess Flood]
15:10 -!- DeltaQuad is now known as DQ|food
15:11 < Ironholds> Isarra: heh. I was out grabbing a drink ;p
15:11 -!- Guest51520 [John@be.afraid.we.are.armed.us] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:11 < James_F> Anyway, to wrest the topic back to telling the community what we're doing, I'm intending to write up what's new every other Monday for the lists, and I guess I could spam enwiki's VPT too (though that does feel like favouritism).
15:11 < Ironholds> and I do this stuff for one set of features. There is no dedicated staffer for new developments as a whole.
15:11 < ToAruShiroiNeko> James_F hmm?
15:11 < Isarra> James_F: But the latest reflects changes the enwp folks won't be seeing yet!
15:11 < Ironholds> James_F: with the VE?
15:11 < Isarra> How will they ever make sense of it?!
15:11 -!- greenrosetta [~greenrose@unaffiliated/greenrosetta] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
15:11 < Ironholds> yeah, kinda what Isarra said. I don't think that's going to solve the problem.
15:12 < James_F> Isarra: Many/most of the changes are instantly deployed to enwiki along with the rest of the cluster.
15:12 < James_F> Isarra: Enwiki is running 1.20/wmf9 right now, for instance.
15:12 < James_F> Ironholds: Yeah.
15:12 < Isarra> Ironholds: Actually, if we just make the link mention that, it shouldn't be a problem.
15:12 < Isarra> People can get a preview.
15:12 < BarkingFish> ToAruShiroiNeko, congratulations, btw :)
15:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> BarkingFish oh thanks
15:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I hope to help for 3 months
15:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I nuked copyright problems already
15:13 < ToAruShiroiNeko> hope that is alright
15:13 < James_F> Isarra: Ah, well, translating from "e696634 - Make it possible to swap out LQT notifications for Echo notifications, or to have both" to something humans could read isn't easy - and that was me picking the easiest one.
15:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> you may want to move those two oggs to commons and get uploads disabled maybe
15:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> just a thought :)
15:14 < Ironholds> James_F: that is a wider problem with how devs communicate, yes ;p
15:14 < ToAruShiroiNeko> since wiki has a total of 3 files now
15:14 < BarkingFish> ToAruShiroiNeko, ur an admin now, fuck, u don't need permission :)
15:14 < Isarra> James_F: Oh. Yes.
15:14 < Ironholds> so, for context, Isarra, Fluff, ToAruShiroiNeko, James_F and I are now having a conversation with the comms team in engineering to work something out
15:14 < Ironholds> hopefully there will be progress soon :)
15:14 < Isarra> I keep forgetting these people can't go look at the gerrit and make sense of that.
15:14 < James_F> Ironholds: Your grammar there sucks.
15:15 < Ironholds> shut up
15:15 < James_F> Isarra: Well, /I/ can.
15:15 < Isarra> There are usually descriptions and everything!
15:15 < James_F> Ironholds: How many people are having discussions with the comms team? It sounded like five.
15:15 < Ironholds> ...fine.
15:16 < James_F> Isarra: Sure, but "Change from wgMiserMode to isCached on Special:WithoutInterwikis" isn't exactly obvious.
15:16 -!- Snowolf_ [~snowolf@wikimedia/Snowolf] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:16 -!- Jarry1250 [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Jarry1250] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
15:16 < Isarra> It is if you know what miser mode does with caching... oh.
15:16 < Isarra> Who knows that?
15:16 < Isarra> ...crap, why do I know that?
15:17 < Ironholds> James_F: so the comms team should sit down with you or me before every new platform release and go
15:17 < Ironholds> "here are the user-facing things. did we get it right?"
15:17  * Isarra hugs James_F.
15:17 < James_F> Ironholds: The comms team don't deploy code.
15:17 < BarkingFish> 0.0
15:17 < James_F> Ironholds: Try not to muddy the waters even more so.
15:18 < James_F> Also, this is the tech comms team, not the comms team.
15:18 < Isarra> So basically we're all doomed.
15:18 < BarkingFish> that's another new change, and quite a nice one imo.  Notice you got rid of the page history tab :)
15:18 < James_F> They /also/ don't deploy code.
15:18 -!- Snowolf [~snowolf@wikimedia/Snowolf] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 60 seconds.]
15:18 -!- Furry [sactage@countervandalism/staff/Sactage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
15:18 < James_F> BarkingFish: We did? Where?
15:19 < BarkingFish> James_F, all I have now is a "Page" tab, with different dropdown items under it.
15:19 < Ironholds> ...what?
15:19 < Ironholds> in vector?
15:19 < BarkingFish> no, in monobook
15:19 < James_F> BarkingFish: On enwiki?
15:19 < BarkingFish> yep
15:19 < James_F> Huh.
15:19 -!- YE|NBA2k12 is now known as YE
15:19 < Ironholds> I'm not seeing that
15:19 < Ironholds> send me a screenshot? okeyes@wikimedia.org
15:19 < BarkingFish> i can screenshot if you want
15:19 < Ironholds> ta :)
15:19 < BarkingFish> oh ok
15:19 < James_F> Umm.
15:19 -!- sonia [~rueful@wikipedia/sonia] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
15:20  * norbit sends a screenshot of teh jesusstick to Ironholds
15:20 < James_F> Yeah, Monobook history tab still very much present here.
15:20 < aezop> oh man
15:20 < Ironholds> norbit: calm down.
15:20 < aezop> that email address is gonna see some crazy shit
15:20 < Isarra> BarkingFish: Can you try turning off your gadgets and seeing if that changes anything?
15:20 < Isarra> Er, anything related.
15:20 < Ironholds> aezop: I'm the community liaison for fuck-off-big features
15:20 < Ironholds> it already does.
15:21 < James_F> Ironholds: We should clearly make that your formal job title.
15:21 < Ironholds> but not, like, apocalyptically-big features. that's James_F
15:21 < aezop> ironholds
15:21 < Ironholds> James_F: no, I have already picked out my new job title
15:21 < James_F> Trudat.
15:21 < aezop> please dont interpret my remarks as desiring to actually converse with you
15:21 < aezop> please dont
15:21 < Isarra> Why does the edit tab say 'edit this page'? Should people be looking for a link to edit some other page there too?
15:21 < James_F> Isarra: Indeed. :-)
15:21 < Ironholds> so, my job involves being the guy who takes a theoretically sweet plan and injects practicality, necessitating the tainting of visions and the corrosion of grand vistas
15:21 < Isarra> James_F: o_O
15:21 < Ironholds> I just want to be titled what people already call me
15:22 < James_F> Isarra: That's why we fixed all these silly things. We call it Vector.
15:22 < Ironholds> Introducing, Oliver Keyes. That Asshole.
15:22 < Isarra> Actually, there are a couple of tabs that would edit other pages...
15:22 < BarkingFish> Ironholds, uploading screenshot to gmail now, will be with you in mail shortly :)
15:22 < Isarra> Only thing vector fixed was the lack of a container for the sidebar.
15:22 < Ironholds> grand :)
15:22 < James_F> I'm only Product Manager for Visual Editor, and Parsoid, and SUL, and special tools, and Echo, and Flow, and LiquidThreads, and Flagged Revisions.
15:22 < Isarra> Other than that it mostly broke things or didn't do much of anything.
15:22 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
15:23 < James_F> Isarra: It never broke anything for me.
15:23 < BarkingFish> brb
15:23 -!- BarkingFish [~BarkingFi@wikimedia/BarkingFish] has quit [Quit: I used to be a werewolf, but I'm alright nooooOOOOOOOOWWWWWW! :)]
15:23 < James_F> Isarra: Do you use a bunch of gadgets or funky user-space CSS/JS?
15:23 < Isarra> Well, to be fair, the only thing it really broke was some minor usability.
15:23 < LL2|Android> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKe7FJTrIZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player  <-- this is freaking awesome
15:23 < Isarra> Mostly it just rearranged things for no apparent reason and to little effect,
15:23 < Isarra> .
15:24 < norbit> Isarra: http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveKardynal
15:24 -!- DQ|food is now known as DQ|around
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15:24 < LL2|Android> Hi harej
15:24 < Isarra> And yeah, I have some funny css/js, but it makes all skins equally funny.
15:26 < Isarra> Heeeeeee monobook is so squishy.
15:26  * Isarra squishes it and giggles.
15:26 < Ironholds> Isarra: you're scary sometimes.
15:28 < Isarra> Eh?
15:28 < Isarra> Twinkle adds too many tabs.
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15:33  * Isarra kidnaps Ironholds and forces him to teach her how to use arrays in php.
15:33 < Ironholds> Isarra: that's it?
15:34 < Isarra> I need to figure this out. >.<
15:34 < Ironholds> you're going to kidnap a cute guy with a nice accent and...have him teach you php?
15:34 < Isarra> This is important!
15:34 < Peter-C> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m4KZHDVWRE&feature=player_embedded
15:34 < Peter-C> OMG THE INTERNET
15:34 < Peter-C> I need one
15:35 < Peter-C> Fuck it, I need 20
15:35 < Isarra> Crap, where's the wmf data retention policy?
15:38 < Ironholds> Isarra: fine, I'll come teach you
15:38 < Ironholds> and it's under the privacy policy I thiiink
15:38 < Isarra> Ah, thanks.
15:38 < Ironholds> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Data_retention_policy and http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
15:38 < Isarra> One sentence, and yet so funny.
15:39 -!- sonia [~rueful@202.126.199.90] has joined #wikipedia-en
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15:40 < Isarra> But anyway, azoft!
15:40  * Isarra kidnaps Ironholds.
15:41  * sonia takes pictures?
15:41 < Isarra> Eep!
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15:42 < norbit> sonia!
15:42 < norbit> :-DD
15:42 < sonia> hi!
15:47 -!- BarkingFish [~BarkingFi@wikimedia/BarkingFish] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:47 < BarkingFish> sorry, Ironholds - net being a bitch, not got that mail sent yet. About to try again :)
15:48 < BarkingFish> and, gone. Should be with you any moment
15:49 -!- Jeske_Merensky [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has quit [Quit: Eek! Yoshi! *flees*]
15:50 < Isarra> Are there links to where one can report a bug anywhere in the interface?
15:50 < Ironholds> sonia: kinky
15:51 < Ironholds> BarkingFish: no problem!
15:51 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:52 -!- LtNOWIS [~Simon@12.152.53.220] has joined #wikipedia-en
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15:53 < Ironholds> BarkingFish: woah, that IS weird. send me your .js and gadget outputs?
15:53 < Ironholds> and css, obvs
15:53 < BarkingFish> yuppers, will do
15:53 < Ironholds> ta :)
15:54 -!- diegogrez [~diegogrez@190-20-92-249.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #wikipedia-en
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15:56 < BarkingFish> Ironholds, there's another weird assed one too, it comes up on user pages, and has a complete list of user ldetails, screenshot of that one coming too
15:57 -!- Courcelles_ [~chatzilla@ool-18b948d6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
15:57 < BarkingFish> i notice User contributions has gone from the left toolbar in monobook too :P
15:59 < Isarra> Pharos: http://illogicopedia.org/wiki/File:This_is_a_pikachu.jpg
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15:59 -!- Courcelles [~chatzilla@ool-18b948d6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:00 -!- Courcelles_ is now known as Courcelles
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16:01 < Pharos> that is a beautiful beast
16:01 -!- PeterSymonds [~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:03 < Isarra> I thought you'd appreciate it.
16:04 < BarkingFish> Ironholds, mail coming to you now - too many pics, so they're zipped up into a 1MB compressed file.
16:04 < BarkingFish> with net being slow, easier I send one file than a few
16:05 < Peter-C> Girls think Ron Paul is hot, right?
16:05 < sonia> ...what?
16:05 < Peter-C> Is this man hot - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Ron_Paul%2C_official_Congressional_photo_portrait%2C_2007.jpg
16:05 < Pharos> hot as freedom
16:06 < Ironholds> BarkingFish: thanks :). May be a while until I get to them, tbh - meetings for the next hour and a half
16:06 < BarkingFish> good god no, face like an MVA
16:06 < Pharos> why do you not love freedom?
16:06 < Peter-C> ^
16:06 < Elduen> I hate freedom.
16:06 < BarkingFish> Ironholds, no prob - I'm away in about 30 minutes, early start, so if you don't catch me tonight, email me and we can talk from there, or I'll be in this evening
16:06 -!- harej [~quassel@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:06 < Peter-C> He is a gyno
16:06 < Elduen> I demand despotism.
16:06 < Peter-C> Women should love him
16:07  * Elduen hits the channel admins with various lengths of PVC piping.
16:07 < Elduen> channel ops*
16:07 < sonia> this logic is beyond me.
16:07 < Pharos> except ones who need family planning services!
16:07 < Pharos> freedom only goes so far
16:07 -!- russavia [~russavia@wikimedia/Russavia] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
16:08 < Pharos> but yes, all women should love and adore Ron Paul
16:08 < BarkingFish> if they're into vets who need a facelift, a wheelchair, a cup of tea and a sit down :P
16:08 < Peter-C> Ron Paul 2012
16:09 < Pharos> Ron Paul 1066
16:09 < BarkingFish> yeah, you don't have to put how old he is, Peter-C - we can see that :P
16:09 -!- incomputable [~ceradon@24.231.61.117] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:09 -!- incomputable [~ceradon@24.231.61.117] has quit [Changing host]
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16:09 < Peter-C> >.>
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16:10 < Pharos> i believe mel brooks is the superior duomillenarian
16:10 < Pharos> *duomillennnarian
16:11 < Elduen> Career politicians suck.
16:11 < BarkingFish> you mean he's an old git, right? :P
16:11 -!- Betacommand [~Betacomma@unaffiliated/betacommand] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]]
16:11 < Elduen> Mel Brooks, however, does not suck.
16:11 < Pharos> i mean he had a great routine where he played 'The Two Thousand Year Old Man'
16:12 < Peter-C> :O
16:12 < Pharos> bavk when he was not-so-old
16:12 -!- Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
16:13 < Pharos> I'd vote for MB over RP anyday
16:13 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has joined #wikipedia-en
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16:17 < BarkingFish> okies, who is dealing with the page curation tool?
16:17 -!- SudoKing [~geek@wikihow/SudoKing] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:18 < Pharos> ironholds i think
16:19 -!- jorm [~bharris@wikimedia/jorm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:19 < mysterytrey> okies.  Is that plural?
16:20 < Isarra> Stewards seem really confusing. Are they?
16:20 -!- Jetro [~Bruker@118.225.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:20 < Pharos> i think there's only one
16:20 < Pharos> but you can never be sure
16:20 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood]
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16:24 < Ironholds> BarkingFish: yo
16:24 -!- prometheus1809 [~prometheu@mobile-192-17-122-143.near.uiuc.edu] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:25 < BarkingFish>  hi - just a quick note, added some feedback - couple of missing CSD criteria on the tool, ones which are kind of important too. I'm using the ones from twinkle for now :)
16:25 -!- harej [~quassel@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:25 < BarkingFish> A7 Band is missing, G7 and G8 too
16:26 < BarkingFish> other than that, i'm quite liking it.
16:26 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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16:29 < Ironholds> BarkingFish: it is?
16:29 < Ironholds> it should be there
16:30 < BarkingFish> A7 is there for other stuff, web, etc, band is not included in the description
16:30 -!- aezop [~aezop@unaffiliated/aezop] has quit [K-Lined]
16:30 < BarkingFish> dunno whether it's just missed out, or actually not included in that entry
16:31 -!- diegogrez_ [~diegogrez@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has joined #wikipedia-en
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16:32 < Tony_Sidaway> CSD has evolved, and it's possible that the tool's maintainer simply hasn't noticed more recent changes.
16:32  * GorillaWarfare yawnstretches-
16:33 -!- diegogrez [~diegogrez@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
16:33 < incomputable> Hey GorilleWarfare
16:34 < incomputable> Ha
16:34 < incomputable> GorillaWarfare*
16:34 -!- p858snake|l [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has quit [Quit: User has quit this network.]
16:34 -!- Miniz [~hi@bas1-stjean93-2925368849.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #wikipedia-en
16:34 < GorillaWarfare> Heya
16:35 -!- ty [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has joined #wikipedia-en
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16:37 < Frood> guess what guys
16:37 < Frood> Flash for Android dies tomorrow :D
16:37 < Fluff|sleep> ?
16:37 -!- Fluff|sleep is now known as Fluffernuttere
16:37 -!- Fluffernuttere is now known as Fluffernutter
16:38 < Frood> Fluffernutter: It's being taken out of the Play Store.
16:38 < incomputable> Hi sleeping Fluff
16:38 < Fluffernutter> why, Frood?
16:38 < Frood> because Adobe wants it to?
16:38  * BarkingFish has a very angry mom after him :P
16:39 < BarkingFish> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:5ways
16:39 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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16:40 < incomputable> Good God in Heaven.
16:40 < incomputable> r u serious>
16:40 < incomputable> ?
16:40  * incomputable headdesks
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16:40 -!- incomputable is now known as ceradon
16:40 < BarkingFish> ceradon, you got a problem?  with me or the mom?
16:41 < Frood> BarkingFish: looks like a sock to me.
16:41 < ceradon> BarkingFish: The article belongs on fucking Comedy Central.
16:41 < ceradon> Jeez
16:41 -!- greenrosetta [~greenrose@unaffiliated/greenrosetta] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:41 < BarkingFish> of course it does. It's what we refer to as "utter shite". You see it quite a lot :P
16:42 < Miniz> BarkingFish, wanna play minecraft?
16:42 < Frood> wait, nevermind
16:43 < BarkingFish> No, derp, I don't. Fuck off.
16:44 < ceradon> Why is derp in here?
16:44 < BarkingFish> ceradon, taking the piss, I suspect.  Read my userpage.
16:46 -!- AzaToth [~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:48  * kylu yawns.
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16:56 < BarkingFish> night guys, I'm out.  Early start, see you tonight
16:56 -!- Kiewii [kiewii@wikipedia/Kiewii] has quit [Quit: damn]
16:56 -!- BarkingFish [~BarkingFi@wikimedia/BarkingFish] has quit [Quit: I used to be a werewolf, but I'm alright nooooOOOOOOOOWWWWWW! :)]
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16:58 < Frood> i've been seriously considering doing an RfA, but I'd never pass.
16:59 < Frood> "We need more admins, but 5000 edits isn't enough!"
16:59 < mysterytrey> 5000 mainspace?
16:59 < Frood> total
16:59 < mysterytrey> And how long have you been here?
17:00 < Frood> 2008ish
17:00 < Frood> I think I started editing in early 2009 though
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17:03 < Frood> I think that I'm crashing toolserver.
17:04 -!- Seddon [~chatzilla@cpc1-cdif6-0-0-cust25.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:05 < mysterytrey> You had 2 edits from 2008-2009
17:05 < mysterytrey> Congrats.
17:05 -!- Seddon [~chatzilla@cpc1-cdif6-0-0-cust25.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:06 < Frood> wtf, https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=Koavf&usprop=editcount
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17:07 < Tony_Sidaway> I would like to see all editors with a FA (to the very existence of which in their current form I am opposed) and a couple of thousand edits granted admin bit as a matter of course.
17:08 < Tony_Sidaway> It would justify the FA programme and give us lots and lots of admins.
17:09 < Tony_Sidaway> Raul654 would not thank me for this. It would make FA discussions rather more tricky for a while.
17:09 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:10 < Tony_Sidaway> I'm pretty confident that he's better placed to weed out disingenuous complainers than the current crop of Bureaucrats, though.
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17:11 < Fluffernutter> FA writers, as a group, are no more temperamentally suited, and often less, than other editors
17:12 < Fluffernutter> they can write. they can't work people.
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17:13 < Tony_Sidaway> Adminning shouldn't be about how to "work people". It's just access to stuff that is not reversible.
17:13 -!- prometheus1809 [~prometheu@mobile-192-17-122-143.near.uiuc.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:14 < Fluffernutter> adminning is about judging consensus of discussions, talking people down from ledges...and deleting and stuff. Someone who's prone to temper tantrums is going to misuse the delete or protect buttons much more readily than someone who is of calm temperament.
17:14 < Tony_Sidaway> The admin bit has been built up as if it's super-powerful and only be entrusted to special people.
17:14  * SigmaWP hugs ty 
17:14 < Fluffernutter> someone who can't explain to someone who's misbehaving that they need to stop in way that's believable and persuasive is going to find themselves doing a lot more blocks than a well-suited admin
17:14  * ty huggles SigmaWP <3
17:15 < geniice> Tony_Sidaway an opinion which is completely unrelated to the fact that you lost it?
17:15 < Tony_Sidaway> Fluffernutter: I judge consensus and whatnot all the time. I don't need an admin bit to boss people around (or whatever talent it is that I possess).
17:15 < Tony_Sidaway> geniice: I didn't lose the admin bit. I asked for it to be removed. I've never missed it.
17:16 < Fluffernutter> You do need an admin bit to judge and enact consensus in places like AfD. And if you want to have an admin bit, you need to be of a temperament that is not prone to, er, how to say...poking people with a sharp knife.
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17:16 < Tony_Sidaway> Admins aren't needed to close AfDs.
17:16  * norbit stabs Fluffernutter with the jesusstick
17:16 -!- Titoxd [~Titoxd@wikipedia/Titoxd] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
17:16 < Tony_Sidaway> That we keep on insisting that they are is the engine of our misfortune.
17:17 < Fluffernutter> um...right
17:17 < geniice> Tony_Sidaway in modern terminology you left under a cloud
17:17 < Tony_Sidaway> No an admin bit is just access to stuff that cannot be reversed.
17:17 < Tony_Sidaway> geniice: yes that is so.
17:17 < Fluffernutter> every admin action is reversible
17:17 < Fluffernutter> even oversights are reversible
17:17 < Tony_Sidaway> Fluffernutter: only by another admin.
17:17 < Wehwalt> Admins still write in the sand, they just have a stick rather than a finger.
17:18 < Tony_Sidaway> This is why only admins can, say, delete. We've decided to take that kind of thing away from regular editors.
17:18 < Wehwalt> And the tide's always coming in
17:18 < Guerillero> true statment
17:18 < Tony_Sidaway> My point is that we fetishize adminning too much.
17:19 < Tony_Sidaway> The real power resides in the experienced editors.
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17:19 < SigmaWP> Is there a checkuser here?
17:20 < Fluffernutter> indeed, Tony_Sidaway. And if I had magic, I'd make sure that only even-tempered, sane people made it through as experienced editors, too. Because we've got a lot too many hotheads and way too few calm voices.
17:21 < Tony_Sidaway> I'd say the biggest problem I encounter on Wikipedia is sheer timidity.
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17:21 < Wehwalt> My theory is that if we eliminated consensus, a lot of troubles would go away
17:21 < Tony_Sidaway> Most editors would rather argue for weeks on end than just make the right edit.
17:22 < Fluffernutter> mostly because they know if they just made the edit, someone will tear a strip off them
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17:22 < Tony_Sidaway> Only inexperienced editors attack others for making an edit.
17:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Just revert and move on.
17:23 < Fluffernutter> oh sweetie, that's adorable
17:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Make the right edit, if it's reverted so be it. Move on to the next issue.
17:23 < SigmaWP> Wehwalt: Edit-warring bots would take place of the troubles
17:23 < norbit> Fluffernutter: I've closed deletion discussions as delete
17:23 < norbit> it's hilarious
17:24 < Guerillero> oh
17:24 < Tony_Sidaway> "Edit-warring bots" aren't allowed.
17:24  * Fluffernutter hugs Guerillero
17:24 < Guerillero> thanks fluff
17:24 < Tony_Sidaway> I have made tons of very significant, useful edits on the principle that if somebody reverts the edit I'll accept their judgement,
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17:25 < Tony_Sidaway> And I've done this in some of the most contentious parts of Wikipedia.
17:25 < Tony_Sidaway> I'm sure most of the more experienced editors have had the same experience.
17:26 < Tony_Sidaway> I use the talk page to explain an edit quite often. It usually helps.
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17:28 < Tony_Sidaway> As I explained yesterday, we've also fetishized the admin actions, most tragically article deletion.
17:29 < Tony_Sidaway> The fact is that we produce articles at a far higher rate than our deletion processes can hope to keep up with, _and it doesn't matter_.
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17:30 < norbit> Fluffernutter: ZOMG
17:30 < Tony_Sidaway> The principal cause of the deletion panic: the unencylopedic notion of "notability" has taken hold in place of verifiability and neutrality.
17:30 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:31 < norbit> I saw the same squirrel
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17:32 < Tony_Sidaway> So the lessons to learn as we enter our seond decade: (1) there is no shortage of volunteers, it's just that the volunteers don't necessarily want to concentrate on "improving" articles that were pretty much acceptable five or ten years ago.
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17:33 < Tony_Sidaway> (2) we don't need better admins, but many good editors could probably benefit _as editors_ from having easy ways of performing routine admin tasks, and they should have that ability.
17:34 < Tony_Sidaway> (3) deletion processes have far less effect on quality than we generally assume, and they piss of the newcomers something awful.
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17:35 < Guerillero> but there has to be a basic level of notablility
17:35 < Tony_Sidaway> Not there doesn't. The Verifiability policy exists for a reason.
17:35 < SigmaWP> legoktm: Don't use regex when there's recursion
17:36 < Wehwalt> (4) the legacy of the first years has been practices that are treated like they came down from Mount Sinai on stone tablets and they will never change.
17:36 < SigmaWP> legoktm: For instance, parsing templates
17:36 -!- geniice [~chatzilla@wikipedia/geniice] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [SeaMonkey 2.11/20120715041107]]
17:36 < SigmaWP> And follow the PEP 8 more often :D
17:36 < Guerillero> but N sums up V and RS fairly well
17:36 < Tony_Sidaway> Wehwalt: well there's that! :)
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17:36 < Tony_Sidaway> N has fuck-all to do with V and RS.
17:36 < Guerillero> it it little more than an extension of both policies
17:37 < Guerillero> you can't be notable without several high quality sources to fulfill verifiability
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17:37 < Tony_Sidaway> It's an unnecessary tool for rooting out facts that, despite existing and being verifiable, "need" deleting in the eye of some editor or other.
17:38 < Wehwalt> I see notability as saying "We are not deciding if this person is notable, but you must show us that sources that we respect treat this parson as notable.
17:38 < Wehwalt> "
17:39 < Tony_Sidaway> Wehwalt: that's self-referential. If a fact is verifiable, it probably belongs in Wikipedia. That doesn't mean it needs an article to itself, but we have redirection  to handle issues like that.
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17:40 < Tony_Sidaway> It's the "OMG, the encyclopedia of facts I'm not interested in!" reaction rechiselled as pseudo-policy.
17:40 < Guerillero> but it behoves people to have pages
17:40 < Guerillero> so many people want one
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17:41 < Guerillero> klout makes your score go up by a big amount if you have a biography
17:41 -!- koishi [~weather@cpe-174-111-088-120.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:41 < Tony_Sidaway> klout isn't Wikipedia. Not our concern.
17:41 < Guerillero> aah
17:42 < Guerillero> but it is
17:42 -!- ceradon [~ceradon@wikimedia/Ceradon] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:42 < Guerillero> every minor celebrity, porn star and  band does not need there own page
17:42 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:43 < Tony_Sidaway> I don't see why every verifiable fact should not be somewhere in Wikipedia. Most of them will be redirects or disamiguation, but that says more about the organisation of the world than Wikipedia policy.
17:45 < Tony_Sidaway> We're remarkably poor at keeping "non-notable" facts out as it is. Pretending that doing so is relevant to our mission is pointless.
17:45 < Tony_Sidaway> Concentrate on excluding the unverifiable. That's what matters.
17:46 < mysterytrey> Do you actually care about that, or are you just rambling on about something?
17:47 < Tony_Sidaway> mysterytrey: I'm just expounding my general philosophy of editing, which I think is the topical matter of this channel.
17:47 < mysterytrey> Umm...
17:48 -!- Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
17:49 < Pharos> my general philosophy of editing is Ultramontaneism
17:49 < RexxS> Isn't there a problem with simply swaping things with too much trivia?
17:49 < RexxS> swamping*
17:49 < Tony_Sidaway> RexxS: no, just remove stuff of marginal relevance.
17:49 < Pharos> no such thing as too much trivia!
17:49 < Tony_Sidaway> That's just good editing practice but is also an essential part of NPOV.
17:49 < RexxS> isn't that what we do now, Tony?
17:50 < Tony_Sidaway> RexxS: yes, very much so. COnsult my statements above and ask if you don't understand any of them.
17:50 < RexxS> I mean do we really need to record the highest position that "Seasons In the Sun" reached in the Austrian dance charts?
17:51 < RexxS> well, I only just dropped in
17:51 < Pharos> trivia is content that hasn't been loved enough
17:51 < RexxS> but I saw the bit about "every verifiable fact"
17:51 < Tony_Sidaway> RexxS: an editing decision I feel confident in leaving to the editors the "Seasons in the Sun" article.
17:51 -!- legoktm_ [~legoktm@wikipedia/Legoktm] has joined #wikipedia-en
17:51 < RexxS> indeed - but that's not therefore an argument for its inclusion, is it?#
17:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Inclusion of a given fact in any or every article isn't implied by the principle that every verifiable fact is includable.
17:53 < Tony_Sidaway> If you exclude a fact, do so because it is not relevant to the topic. Is it relevant to another topic? Then the editor of the article on that topic will have his or her own idea.
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17:54 < RexxS> ok - but includable =/= included somewhere
17:54 < Tony_Sidaway> So much of our deletion discussions are really just misplaced arguments about balance.
17:55 < RexxS> to be fair, you often get merge as a result
17:55 < Tony_Sidaway> Merge should be the first resort, not the last one.
17:56 < RexxS> no argument there
17:56 < RexxS> it also implies that we are building larger, more comprehensive articles
17:57 < RexxS> rather trhan lots of stubs
17:57 < Tony_Sidaway> I sometimes like to consider what editing strategies we'd follow if deletion were not an option. Such a wiki is conceivable so it's quite an interesting exercise.
17:57 < Frood> How the fuck is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=5ways&action=history still alive?
17:58 -!- harej [~quassel@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:58 < kylu> Frood: well, it DOES say "No need to go deleting this page" so that means it's okay, right?
17:58 -!- mysterytrey [~3dos@wikimedia/Mysterytrey] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 542 seconds]
17:59 < Tony_Sidaway> It's a rather charming piece of juvenilia, which will be deleted in due course.
17:59 < Frood> Tony_Sidaway: over an hour and a half is too long...
17:59 < Frood> Speedy deletion should take at most 30 mins, imo.
17:59 -!- GorillaWarfare [~GorillaWa@wikipedia/GorillaWarfare] has quit [Quit: GorillaWarfare]
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17:59 < Frood> controversial? decline speedy, AfD/prod
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18:00 < SigmaWP> [17:59:32] �<�Frood�>� Speedy deletion should take at most 30 mins, imo.
18:00 < Tony_Sidaway> why don't you just delete it?
18:00 < Frood> because I'm not an admin?
18:01 < Tony_Sidaway> Which brings us full circle...
18:01 < Tony_Sidaway> :)
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18:01 < Tony_Sidaway> Experienced editors should have access to the toold.
18:02 < Frood> I don't have like, 10,000 edits
18:02 < Frood> only 4500ish, and 500 are deleted.
18:02 < Guerillero> I only have 11,500 edits
18:02 < Tony_Sidaway> 4500 edits is quite a lot.
18:02 < Guerillero> and I have been an admin since Nov
18:03 < Tony_Sidaway> I think we should trust our editors more than we do.
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18:05 < RexxS> it wouldn't work, Tony
18:06 -!- diegogrez [~diegogrez@wikimedia/Diego-Grez] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
18:06 < Tony_Sidaway> I think a lot of people probably said it wouldn't work to trust just anybody to come and edit an encyclopedia. And here we are.
18:06 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:06 < RexxS> and is that a good place?
18:07 < Tony_Sidaway> Here I'm talking about giving people who have amply repaid that trust some extra tools to make their job easier.
18:07 < RexxS> one glance at the drama boards will show the flaws
18:07 < Tony_Sidaway> If you don't think  Wikipedia is a remarkable achievement, I don't think you can have been paying attention.
18:08 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o eir] by ChanServ
18:08 < RexxS> utterly remarkable
18:08 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-bbo *!*@ool-18bf65f7.dyn.optonline.net *!*@c-68-83-244-15.hsd1.pa.comcast.net eir] by eir
18:08 < RexxS> but still a long way short of utopia
18:08 < RexxS> and what tools would make my job easier?
18:08 < Tony_Sidaway> The "drama" boards exist by mistake, and do not need to exist.
18:09 < RexxS> amen to that - and yet they do exist
18:09 < Tony_Sidaway> They only have poer if we pay attention to them.
18:10 < Frood> Seriously, can an admin do too much damage without arbcom noticing?
18:10 < Frood> and then arbcom promptly desysoping
18:10 < RexxS> but if anyone can participate, we are bound to have folks who create drama boards
18:10 < Tony_Sidaway> Frood: the biggest sysop rampage of which I'm aware was over within ten minutes.
18:10 < Frood> ofc i'd be open to recall...
18:11 < Frood> I don't think anything I've ever done could be considered controversial...
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18:11  * Gfoley4 never got asked if I was open to recall
18:12 < RexxS> keep it up - i'm sure you'll make a decent admin sooner or later
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18:16 < RexxS> evening Sven
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18:16 < Sven_Manguard> Hi.
18:17 < Frood> Hi Sven_Manguard.
18:17 < Sven_Manguard> Hi.
18:18 < SigmaWP> Hi Sven_Manguard.
18:18 < Sven_Manguard> Hi.
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18:19 < ceradon> Hi Sven_Manguard
18:19 < Sven_Manguard> Hi.
18:19 < Noommos> Hi Sven_Manguard.
18:19 < Sven_Manguard> Hi.
18:20 -!- Biberkopf [Biberkopf@c-71-237-2-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:20 < RexxS> oi - no scripts !
18:20 < Sven_Manguard> Wha?
18:20 < RexxS> :D
18:20 < norbit> Hi Sven_Manguard q
18:20 < Sven_Manguard> Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. *bzzzzt*
18:21 < Guest88818> Hello Sven_Manguard
18:21 < Sven_Manguard> *bzzzzt*
18:22 < RexxS> 7 down, 188 to go ...
18:23 < Guest88818> RexxS: ?
18:23 < RexxS> 7 welcomes so far for Sven
18:23 < RexxS> another 188 folks in chan
18:24 < RexxS> i'll check back in an hour or two
18:25 -!- IDoH [~I@wikipedia/I-dream-of-horses] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:25 < IDoH> hey
18:25 -!- LtNOWIS [~Simon@12.152.53.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:26 < norbit> IDoH: greetings.
18:26 < IDoH> Does anyone know when the clue net server will be back up?
18:26 < IDoH> Hey norbit. :-)
18:26 < SigmaWP> Hi IDoH
18:26 < norbit> When horses fly.
18:26 < IDoH> Ah, hi Sigma.
18:26 < norbit> (no, dreams don't count)
18:26 < IDoH> lol, orbit. In other words, nobody really knows.
18:26 < norbit> SigmaWP: post your thing on the internet
18:26 < IDoH> Or never. Which would suck. :-/
18:26 < norbit> IDoH: :O I'm not an orbit
18:26 < SigmaWP> I can't think of a good name
18:27 < IDoH> Norbit: Sorry, autocorrect
18:27 < norbit> SigmaWP: you don't have to name your thing, people who want to see your thing will find it.
18:27 < SigmaWP> OK
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18:28 < IDoH> The thing?
18:28 -!- lukas23 [~Lukas23@wikipedia/Lukas23] has quit [Quit: Ciao, au revoir, tschüss, bye,]
18:28 < IDoH> hey, IShadowed
18:28 -!- Biberkopf [Biberkopf@c-71-237-2-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit []
18:28 < norbit> IDoH: SigmaWP is posting his thing on the internet.
18:29 < SigmaWP> norbit: I'll just call it The Thing
18:29 < IDoH> I find this interesting.
18:29 < norbit> IDoH: it's a penis
18:29 < IDoH> Norbit: :-0!
18:29 < norbit> SigmaWP: sure :O
18:29 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:29 < IDoH> I'm scandalized!
18:29  * IDoH faints
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18:31 < Pharos> hi wikipedians
18:31 < SigmaWP> norbit: What about the focus keyword
18:31 < IDoH> Anyone have a non-Igloo, Mac-compatible, anti-vandal software that they use?
18:31 < IDoH> hey Pharos
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18:31 < norbit> SigmaWP: what it's about
18:31 < SigmaWP> IDoH: Get linux
18:31 < norbit> you know what I mean.
18:32 < SigmaWP> OK :D
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18:32 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@c-98-235-202-171.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
18:32 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:32 < Pharos> Get DOS
18:32 < norbit> IDoH: want the link?
18:32  * norbit DDOS's Pharos
18:32 < SigmaWP> IDoH: But thanks for the idea
18:32 < IDoH> SigmaWP: Not really an option at the moment. I just bought a new laptop with help from my parents.
18:32 < IDoH> Norbit: Sure.
18:32 < SigmaWP> Linux is free :)
18:33 < SigmaWP> You'll be safe if you don't get grub
18:33 < Pharos> DOS is pretty cheap nowadays
18:33 < Frood> my favorite admin isn't here to delete that page.
18:34 < kylu> freedos.com
18:34 -!- Monchoman45 [~monchoman@wikia/Monchoman45] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:34 < SigmaWP> IDoH: But why OSX?
18:34 < SigmaWP> It's just a bastard of unix that comes in a white box and a $56000000 price tag
18:35 < IDoH> SigmaWP: Because my brother is horrible at helping family members with their computers, and he's the only Linux-savvy person I know
18:35 -!- Nascar1996 [~Nascar199@wikipedia/Nascar1996] has quit [Quit: Later!]
18:35 < Elduen> A dollar for Apple is a dollar for the biggest bully in the tech industry.
18:35 < kylu> um, Oracle. c.c
18:35 < IDoH> I mean, I assume there's you, but I need internet access to talk to you, ya know.
18:35 < SigmaWP> Read system logs, google problem, problem solved
18:36 < IDoH> Sigma: Again, I need Internet access to google
18:36 < SigmaWP> If you screw up a linux you can always go on recovery mode
18:36 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:36 < SigmaWP> Then you can read the system logs, google problem, problem solved
18:36 < IDoH> No idea what you're talking about. Besides, I'm pretty sure I'd screw even more.
18:36 < SigmaWP> norbit: Done
18:36  * kylu suggests IDoH always keep an old 3G Kindle Keyboard handy for emergencies. *nod*
18:37 -!- Tanvir [~tanvir@wikimedia/wikitanvir] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
18:37 < IDoH> You guys are honestly confusing the hell out of me!
18:37  * SigmaWP injects debian into IDoH 's computer
18:37 < kylu> free web access anywhere, forevar.
18:37 < IDoH> I just wanted an Mac compatible Igloo alternative. I didn't want advice on what operating system to use.
18:37 < kylu> also, does something with ebooks. c.c
18:38 < Tony_Sidaway> Gosh, kylu . That nick rings a bell for some reason. Hi.
18:38 < SigmaWP> Oh
18:38 < SigmaWP> Nevermind then :P
18:38 < kylu> hey Tony, how's things?
18:38 < SigmaWP> It would be interesting to write an antivandalism thingy for non-windows
18:38 -!- Betacommand [~Betacomma@unaffiliated/betacommand] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:38 < Isarra> Is there any legitimate reason these days to disable js these days beside to remove ads or due to paranoia?
18:38 < Tony_Sidaway> kylu: just great! Sorry but do I know you from Wikipedia or somewhere else?
18:38 < Isarra> -these days
18:38 < SigmaWP> Isarra: No.
18:38 < norbit> IDoH: Sigma's thing is weird.... http://addihockey.helpmebot.org.uk/2012/08/the-thing/
18:38 < Isarra> Really?
18:39 < SigmaWP> norbit: You silly chair
18:39 < Isarra> So there are no possible other reasons why anyone would disable javascript, at least not legitimate ones?
18:39 < kylu> Isarra: performance issues.
18:39 -!- jorm [~bharris@wikimedia/jorm] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:40 < IDoH> Norbit: Sigma's thing just went right over my head
18:40 < Isarra> kylu: Is that legitimate?
18:40 < norbit> IDoH: k, it's not THAT big.
18:40 < IDoH> LOL
18:40 < IDoH> It's an anti-capitialism rant, not a penis!
18:40 < kylu> Isarra: sure... visit an imageboard with js, crap takes forever to load on old machine...
18:40 < IDoH> Or, really, not a rant, but just anti-capitialist
18:40 < kylu> do same with js disabled, can still see ads, runs faster
18:41 < Isarra> But apparently that's not a legitimate reason these days.
18:42 -!- Tasmania [John@unaffiliated/tasmania] has left #wikipedia-en []
18:43 < kylu> depends on the machine you're using, don't you figure?
18:43 < kylu> My work machine and my laptop are fine, for instance... the mac desktop, not so much, it's ancient.
18:44 < Isarra> Aye... >.<
18:44 -!- IDoH [~I@wikipedia/I-dream-of-horses] has quit [Quit: Bye, bye, cool internets!]
18:44 < Isarra> This computer is terrible with all the modern js crap, but it handles fine with it off.
18:45 < Isarra> Of course, it is also ten years old...
18:45 < Isarra> >.>
18:45 < kylu> also, there's an assumption among web design folks that all computers out there are within a couple years of "current"
18:45 < Isarra> Not exactly a very good assumption to make, though, especially if it's for something with a more global audience.
18:46 < Tony_Sidaway> I used to get that. One trick I found handy was that you could use a relatively underpowered machine such as a laptop as an X-server while the browser ran on a desktop system over XDMP or whatever it's called.
18:46 < kylu> Tony�: Or just disable js and avoid the sucky sites that block you for doing so. :)
18:46 < Isarra> Indeed...
18:46 < kylu> also, xdmp not really needed, you can do x-forwarding via ssh.
18:47 < kylu> or even unencrypted, directly, if you really trust your wireless. o.o;
18:47 < Tony_Sidaway> kylu: well it wasn't just browsers. This ancient thinkpad of mine was lovely but extremely underpowered.
18:48 < Isarra> Couldn't run gtk3 stuff properly?
18:48 < kylu> One of my coworkers has called the pencil eraser on those things the "clit" recently. Gave a kylu the giggles.
18:48 < Isarra> I'm not sure if I should be amused or horribly freaked out that qt is now more efficient than gtk.
18:49 -!- TheBanner [~chatzilla@213-94-178-193-dynamic.b-ras1.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:49 -!- Tanvir [~tanvir@wikimedia/wikitanvir] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:49 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:50 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh i love the clit on a thinkpad. Must remember that name.
18:51 < kylu> sure, "Okay, now wiggle the clit up to File, push, then wiggle it down to Save, push, and pound OK when it pops out."
18:52 < kylu> I'll be sure to tell her at least one other person likes that. :)
18:52 -!- Seddon [~chatzilla@cpc1-cdif6-0-0-cust25.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host]
18:52 -!- Seddon [~chatzilla@Wikimedia/Seddon] has joined #wikipedia-en
18:54 < IShadowed> next time norbit disturbs my raid, I am sending Shirik after him and he shall instantly regret this
18:55 < SigmaWP> template.add("pears", "{{plums}}")
18:55 < SigmaWP> y u no **kwargs
18:55 < kylu> IShy, send a Jenkins in.
18:55 < Tony_Sidaway> kylu: my daughter would probably buy a Thinkpad just to be able to say stuff like that.
18:55 < IShadowed> seriously
18:56 < IShadowed> bitch keeps pinging me in rapid succession
18:56 < IShadowed> not ok
18:56 < kylu> no /ignore ?
18:56 < IShadowed> one more ping and yes
18:57 < The_Thing> IShadowed.
18:57 < kylu> Tony: for the record, I like your daughter already.
18:57 < IShadowed> YOU'RE ALL ON IGNORE
18:57 < The_Thing> xD
18:58 < The_Thing> IShadowed: [[WP:Beans]]
18:58 < kylu> hm... freenode still let you /join 0 ?
18:59  * kylu was thinking that + add *!*@* to your ignore list = fairly pointless irc.
18:59 < SigmaWP> /join #/home/
18:59 < kylu> we used to do a funny on efnet... sucker people into joining #2,000 to talk about the upcoming new year
19:00 < kylu> (one Internet Brownie Point to anyone who figures it out and didn't already know.)
19:00 < Bsadowski1> I get it
19:00 < Bsadowski1> :P
19:00 < norbit> kylu: haha
19:01 < Bsadowski1> Already know about it.
19:01 < Sven_Manguard> kylu: what am I missing?
19:01 < norbit> Bsadowski1: fail
19:01 < Frood> SigmaWP: I'm learning Python!
19:01  * SigmaWP hugs Frood 
19:01 < kylu> sven: in msg
19:01 < Bsadowski1> norbit: I have fucking been on IRC for over 6 years. Don't tell me "fail".
19:01 < norbit> Bsadowski1: don't tell me stuff that equates to more fail :O
19:01 < SigmaWP> I read that as "I have been fucking IRC for over 6 years"
19:02 < Bsadowski1> lol
19:02 < norbit> SigmaWP: well, that too.
19:02 < Frood> oh yay
19:02 < kylu> SigmaWP: explains netsplits
19:02 < Frood> i don't have to wake up at 7 tomorrow!
19:02 < Frood> but i'll be up at 7:30 probably.
19:02  * kylu 's been on irc so long that kylu times out peer.
19:02 -!- Logan_ [~Logan@wikimedia/Logan] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:03  * Sven_Manguard 's been on irc so long he's got inside jokes with other users
19:03 < Sven_Manguard> oh hi Logan
19:03 < kylu> (or, less humorously, is mentioned in the credits for TexasNet IRC code, Epona services, and Eggdrop. Sadly.)
19:03  * Isarra falls asleep on Sven_Manguard.
19:03 < norbit> speaking of animal fun facts, hello Logan_!
19:03 < Frood> Logan_: Hi.
19:03 < norbit> Isarra: no falling asleep
19:04 < norbit> kylu: :O
19:04  * norbit gives kylu a sympathy biscuit
19:04  * kylu soaks in own tears, noms.
19:05 -!- Tasmania [John@unaffiliated/tasmania] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:05 -!- ty [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:06 -!- ty [~ty@wikia/vstf/TyA] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:06 < kylu> ...hey Tony?
19:06  * SigmaWP hugs ty
19:07 < kylu> Y'know... I HAVE to say this, so apologies in advance... but you realize you'll never be able to use your daughter's computer if she gets a Lenovo, right?
19:07  * ty huggles SigmaWP <3
19:07 < Frood> kylu: why is that?
19:07 < kylu> 'cos what's he have to do to move the mouse around?
19:08 < Frood> ?
19:09 < kylu> read the backscroll, two pages back tops.
19:09 < Tony_Sidaway> It's okay, I'll just tell her how to work it and watch to make sure she does it right. :p
19:09 < kylu> ...
19:09 < kylu> even worse. x.x
19:09 < Frood> thinkpads have touchpads too.
19:09 < kylu> heresy!
19:10 < kylu> also, fingering her pad is just as bad.
19:10 < Frood> but yeah, those things are pretty cool
19:10 < Tony_Sidaway> She has a sense of humour about as filthy as mine. *she* told *me* what pegging is.
19:11 < kylu> I suspect most guys don't know what it is, actually.
19:11 < kylu> Or, at least, maybe they see a picture and go "Wait, what is OHHOLYSHITCLOSEBROWSERTAB!"
19:12 < Tony_Sidaway> She knows I am bisexual, so perhaps a little harder to freak out than most. She tries though.
19:12 -!- SigmaWP is now known as SigmAway
19:12 < SigmAway> Bye!
19:13 < Frood> Tony_Sidaway: lemonparty. that is all.
19:13 < kylu> lemonparty, ha... try "heads of state"
19:13 < kylu> one's a split ticket, another is prince albert
19:14 < Logan_> Yes, hello.
19:14 < Logan_> Logan_ here.
19:15 < kylu> Hello Darkness, my old friend...
19:16 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:16 < Logan_> I've come to talk with you again.
19:17 < Tony_Sidaway> She made me sit and watch Thor the other day. She has conceived an enthusiasm for the rather scrumptious Tom Hiddleston, who plays Loki in that film and in The Avengers.
19:17 -!- p858snake|l [~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:17 -!- norbit [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
19:17 < Tony_Sidaway> I have to admit, it's worth it for the Loki bits.
19:19 < kylu> Tony: privmsg. :D
19:19 -!- tonynoname2 [~tonynonam@pool-108-44-27-91.albyny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: tonynoname2]
19:19  * kylu hasn't seen the Avengers movie yet. Kinda works all the time. c.c
19:20 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@c-98-235-202-171.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:20 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@c-98-235-202-171.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
19:20 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:20 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:21 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:22 -!- tonynoname [~tonynonam@pool-108-44-27-91.albyny.east.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:25 -!- SigmAway [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:25 -!- quanticle|away is now known as quanticle
19:26 -!- Sven_Manguard [~Perhaps@wikipedia/Sven-Manguard] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
19:30 < Tony_Sidaway> I saw it once and managed to stay awake all the way through. It's very good. I speak as someone who stopped watching Iron Man as soon as the cartoon foreigners started running around and shouting "dakka dakka dakka". Team America World Police was a _satire_, not a blueprint.
19:32 -!- DoRD is now known as DoRD|away
19:32 < kylu> I kinda thought of that Jericho Missile as a mix between a lightweight Project Charon and a Metalstorm project.
19:33 < kylu> vaguely cool concept, but I'd just use a full Charon and get it over with. *shrug*
19:33 -!- Sven_Manguard [~Perhaps@wikipedia/Sven-Manguard] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:34 < Sven_Manguard> Back. Goodamn Google analytics crashed my internet...
19:34 < Sven_Manguard> Any way to block that? I don't want them tracking me as it is
19:34 -!- Dcoetzee [kvirc@wikimedia/Dcoetzee] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:35 < kylu> sven: localhost analytics.google.com in your /etc/hosts ?
19:35 < Sven_Manguard> ?
19:35 < Sven_Manguard> I went to armorgames and it crashed internet while loading Google analytics
19:35 < Sven_Manguard> that's all I know
19:37 -!- Soapy [Soap@wikipedia/soap] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:37 < Frood> Sven_Manguard: Ghostery?
19:37 < kylu> there's a file... /etc/hosts in os x or linux, \windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts for windows (I think?)
19:37 < kylu> add a line that says: 127.0.0.1 analytics.google.com
19:37 < kylu> to that file
19:37 < kylu> reboot
19:37 < kylu> (unless linux/os x)
19:39 -!- Sven_Manguard [~Perhaps@wikipedia/Sven-Manguard] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:39 -!- Sven_Manguard [~Perhaps@wikipedia/Sven-Manguard] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:39 < Sven_Manguard> sigh
19:40 < Tony_Sidaway> That works, but it can slow down page loads unless you have a web server to respond and 404 all the page requests.
19:40 < Tony_Sidaway> Depends whether you're impatient or not. You have to wait for timeouts sometimes.
19:41  * kylu hosts a webserver anyway, redirects it to a ignored-robots.txt-trap
19:42 -!- Falcorian [~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:42 -!- Sven_Manguard [~Perhaps@wikipedia/Sven-Manguard] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:43 -!- Seahorse [~Seahorse@wikipedia/Seahorseruler] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:43 -!- Jasper_Deng [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Jasper-Deng] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:44 < Soapy> hi
19:44 -!- Jasper_Deng is now known as Jasper_Deng_away
19:46 -!- Tiptoety [~Tiptoety@wikipedia/Tiptoety] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:46 -!- Bradford [b5b74040@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.183.64.64] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:47  * Shearonink has no idea what all this is but it sounds fascinating
19:47 -!- Sven_Manguard [~Perhaps@wikipedia/Sven-Manguard] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:47 < Shearonink> ghosts in the machine and linux and analytics oh my
19:47 < Sven_Manguard> sigh...
19:48 < Sven_Manguard> Okay, restarting fixed it.
19:49 -!- Miniz [~hi@bas1-stjean93-2925368849.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:51 -!- ty is now known as tyime
19:52 -!- evilgohan2 [~freenode@c-68-48-223-68.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Nearly time for the frightfully clever Ms Maddow to tell me what those nutty politicians have been getting up to today.
19:53 -!- TheBanner [~chatzilla@213-94-178-193-dynamic.b-ras1.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]]
19:53 < kylu> Wotcher watch, Tony?
19:53 -!- legoktm is now known as lego|away
19:54 -!- Jeske_Merensky [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/jeske-couriano/x-0000001] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:55 < Sven_Manguard> A Rachel fan, eh?
19:56 -!- Jetro` [~Bruker@118.225.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #wikipedia-en
19:58  * kylu googles...
19:58 < Tony_Sidaway> MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show, and sometimes some other stuff.
19:58 < kylu> Dude, she looks like an ex-bf of mine. o.o;
19:58 < kylu> more cleavage, though.
19:59 < Tony_Sidaway> She looks like an older version of my daughter :p
19:59 -!- Jetro [~Bruker@118.225.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:59 -!- Jetro` is now known as Jetro
20:00 < kylu> Didn't say it was a turn-off, Tony. :)
20:00 < Tony_Sidaway> I did notice :)
20:01 < kylu> the C-word (not clit, the other one) is still a little worrisome though.
20:02 < Jeske_Merensky> Crab?
20:02 < Tony_Sidaway> Somewhere on the internet there is a picture of Rachel Maddow from a high school yearbook. Worth looking up for a laugh.
20:02  * kylu peeks, "Okay, didn't expect that..."
20:03 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:04 -!- UniCode [~NoCode@dsl-207-112-89-88.tor.primus.ca] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:04 -!- ChrisGualtieri [47eae49b@wikipedia/ChrisGualtieri] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:04 -!- lego|away [~legoktm@wikipedia/Legoktm] has quit [Quit: sleeping.]
20:04 -!- UniCode [~NoCode@dsl-207-112-89-88.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:04 -!- dendodge [~dendodge@unaffiliated/dendodge] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:05 < kylu> Also... her first date with her girlfriend was... at a NRA "Lady's Day on the Range" event. o.O;
20:05 < kylu> weird.
20:05 < Tony_Sidaway> hehe
20:06 -!- Antonorsi is now known as Anto|away
20:09 < Tony_Sidaway> I looked at the article. Removed a reference to her and her girlfriend's lack of marriage plans. This kind of plan isn't normally covered until and unless it materializes ("they plan to marry in the Autumn", etc)
20:10 < Tony_Sidaway> "Despite heterosexual marriage being legal in the country, Fred Smith and  his girlfriend of six years have no plans to marry."
20:10 < kylu> I looked at her art gallery, would be tempted to reference Mikula's lack of scope and ability to use the 'focus' on a camera.
20:11 < Tony_Sidaway> Love is blind. :p
20:11 < kylu> I'm sure folks love what she does, but some of that looks like "well, that was a good try anyway" on /x/
20:12 < Tony_Sidaway> You are way more curious about Rachel Maddow than I! :)
20:13 < Tony_Sidaway> I just think of her as the nice clever lady who tells me hair-raising stories about American politics.
20:13 < Pharos> DYK Rachel Maddow is Bernie Madoff's niece?
20:13 < jorm> hello, my future victims.
20:13 < kylu> go to images.google.com and type in "susan mikula"
20:13 < kylu> all the blurry crap? that's her art.
20:15 -!- Courcelles [~chatzilla@ool-18b948d6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]]
20:15 -!- Patar_knight [~chatzilla@wikipedia/Patar-knight] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20:16 < Tony_Sidaway> Too busy being educated in the Ryan Gosling meme by Auntie Rachel.
20:16  * kylu sighs, "abstract photography with limited chromatic range and an apparent unwillingness to actually put in any sort of counterpoint or accent."
20:17 < Soapy> rachel Maddow was in the NRA? lol
20:17  * Betacommand is a true geek, I am converting my USB stick to use SVN
20:17 < Soapy> pharos: seriously?
20:17 < Soapy> Maddow looks like it could be a respelling of Madoff
20:17 < Pharos> no, of course not
20:17 < Soapy> oh ok
20:17 < Soapy> hey, it could have been true'
20:17 < Pharos> it is the same nam, tho
20:17 < Pharos> i know!
20:18 < Pharos> wouldn't it be cool if it was?
20:18 < kylu> not for her.
20:18 < Pharos> i bet it wold help ratings
20:19 < kylu> If it did at all, I suspect not enough to be worth actually being related to that guy.
20:19 < kylu> Also, that's MSNBC... if you want stupidity to increase ratings, you go for FOX.
20:19 < Tony_Sidaway> Soapy: Rachel Maddow joined the NRA to get off with a cutie.
20:20 < kylu> she already knew said cutie.
20:21 -!- SigmaWP is now known as CoalBalls
20:21 < Soapy> I had a teacher who reminded me of Rachel Maddow
20:21 < Soapy> it was a man ... not particularly feminine, just something about his speaking style
20:22 < The_Thing> lolwut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUjFRKWk6gQ
20:22 -!- Dcoetzee [kvirc@wikimedia/Dcoetzee] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:22 -!- LL2|Android [~LL2@wikipedia/LikeLakers2] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:22 < Pharos> maybe your teacher was Rachel Maddow's *real* uncle
20:26 -!- OlEnglish [~OlEnglish@S0106602ad08246c6.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:26 -!- OlEnglish [~OlEnglish@S0106602ad08246c6.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host]
20:26 -!- OlEnglish [~OlEnglish@wikipedia/OlEnglish] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:27 -!- Logan_ is now known as k
20:27 -!- CoalBalls [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:28 -!- midori [~m3w@wikimedia/Kylu] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:28 -!- midori [~m3w@wikimedia/Kylu] has left #wikipedia-en []
20:30 < Tony_Sidaway> Ah, so Paul Ryan as a Congressman was a cosponsor of a foetal personhood amendment.
20:30 < Soapy> cool
20:31 < Soapy> i think fetuses should be able to vote too
20:31 -!- Jasper_Deng_away is now known as Jasper_Deng
20:31 -!- Pharos [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Pharos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20:31 < Tony_Sidaway> To my weird socialistic European ears that sounds like a huge issue. Maybe less so to Americans, but we'll see.
20:33 < kylu> it's not so much that it's a huge issue to most americans, but that we tend to be .... um, religiously and socially regressive at the moment.
20:34 -!- Jasper_Deng_ [~chatzilla@WindowsEnthusiast.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
20:34 < Tony_Sidaway> Here's the interesting to me: it wasn't just Ryan and maybe one or two other guys. The bill had 64 cosponsors.
20:34 < Elduen> Abortion is one of those "hot-button" topics.
20:34 < Elduen> Also, what kylu said.
20:34 -!- Jasper_Deng is now known as Guest2989
20:34 < kylu> the ONLY positive I can think of the Republican ticket is that it's a non-Protestant ticket, since Ryan's Catholic and... well, you know the rest.
20:34 < Tony_Sidaway> This isn't just an abortion thing. Foetal personhood strikes at emergency contraception and so much else.
20:35 < Soapy> dont you think fetuses should have the same rights as everyone??
20:35 < Soapy> even the right to vote
20:35 -!- Jasper_Deng_ [~chatzilla@WindowsEnthusiast.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20:35 < kylu> and typically, they're the voting bloc that's most regressive, socially.
20:35 < Soapy> if fetuses could vote, abortion would be banned in a heartbeat
20:35 < Tony_Sidaway> Soapy: I hope you're not serious. You're not, surely?
20:35 -!- Jasper_Deng [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Jasper-Deng] has joined #wikipedia-en
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20:35 < kylu> I'm okay with giving them the right to vote, as long as nobody can vote for them as proxy. ;)
20:36 < kylu> require thumbprints during voter registration too, and they lose the right to vote once born.
20:36  * kylu nods.
20:40 < Soapy> 03:35, 15 August 2012 Vianello (talk | contribs | block) blocked This user cannot be blocked (talk | contribs) (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite
20:40 < Tony_Sidaway> This is what I like abour her show. I don't have to wade through the nonsense of the campaign trail. She delivers a neat, condensed summary of the craziness as it applies to the lives of real people.
20:40 < Elduen> pwnt
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20:45 < SudoKing> lol
20:45 < Gfoley4> Tony_Sidaway: whose show?
20:46 < Tony_Sidaway> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUjFRKWk6gQ
20:46 < Tony_Sidaway> oopd
20:46 < Tony_Sidaway> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#48668880
20:47 < Tony_Sidaway> This chap probably hasn't been vetted as well as Romney thought.
20:48 < Gfoley4> The only news shows I watch are The Daily Show and The Colbert Report
20:48 -!- Jetro [~Bruker@118.225.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
20:49 < Tony_Sidaway> We've finally got The Daily Show back on Channel 4 here after 18 months of having to use the internet machine.
20:49 < SudoKing> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster
20:49 < SudoKing> "The bonnet decapitated tightly jammed spectators like a guillotine."
20:49 < SudoKing> rofl
20:49 < SudoKing> that's not nice!
20:49 < SudoKing> just what i want to picture, people's heads being cut of
20:50 < ChrisGualtieri> Actually it seems right
20:50 < ChrisGualtieri> http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-2524522551.html
20:51 < Tony_Sidaway> I'd like to see COlbert too but the Channel 4 people think we're too stupid to follow his humour or something.
20:52 < Gfoley4> lol
20:52 < Shearonink> The Le Mans disaster sounds like some of he early cycling accidents
20:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Or maybe the Comedy Central people are scared we foreigners might think he's for real, and thus gain a  negative image of American TV news.
20:53 < Bradford> Hola
20:55 < Soapy> The race was continued, officially in order to prevent departing spectators from crowding the roads and slowing down ambulances. An emergency meeting of the Daimler-Benz board of directors was convened by midnight at the request of John Fitch.
20:55 < Soapy> ooh
20:56 < ChrisGualtieri> Article updated with more details!
20:57 -!- Betacommand [~Betacomma@unaffiliated/betacommand] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:59 < SudoKing> :D
21:00 < Bradford> Hey Menores
21:01 < Frood> I have a question.
21:01 < Frood> If I want one citation to go to multiple things, how do I do that?
21:01 < Soapy> <ref name="sdfsdfsdf"> </ref>
21:02 < Soapy> then lateer just <ref name="sdfsdfsdf" />
21:02 < Frood> ok
21:02 < ChrisGualtieri> Lol... 3 highbeam sources
21:02 < Soapy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5Watchlist?ref=watchlist
21:03 -!- yuvipanda [~yuvipanda@mediawiki/Yuvipandan] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:03 < Tony_Sidaway> http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=9D239690-8DCD-4DD7-8723-4A18ED5A9C8C
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21:04 < ChrisGualtieri> Hate to sound gorey... but wasn't the entire disaster RECORDED?
21:04 < Tony_Sidaway> Now bear in mind this is senior GOP strategists talking on background to Politico. The party is very jittery about the down-ballot implications.
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21:05 < SudoKing> ChrisGualtieri yes
21:05 < SudoKing> i was watching youtube videos
21:05 < SudoKing> to appease my sick mind
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21:09 < ChrisGualtieri> Give me articles that need sources and I'll find them... if they are US/UK related and within the last 10 years >.>
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21:25 < ToAruShiroiNeko> GOP is Get Out of Politics
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21:28 < Tony_Sidaway> ToAruShiroiNeko: well I've had my daily dose of weird American politics. Now I don't feel so bad about David Cameron and Boris Johnson--they're comparatively sane.
21:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> umm
21:28 -!- Bradford [b5b74040@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.183.64.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:28 < Dcoetzee> I'm mystified how the Republicans' whole election plan is "appeal to the core Republican base". Like is it even possible to win that way?
21:28 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Boris maybe a Trump impersonator
21:28 < ChrisGualtieri> Dcoetzee:  Because there are more of them
21:29 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee sure as long as democrats cannot vote
21:29 < ChrisGualtieri> Dcoetzee: If they stop marginalizing and act with dignitiy and sense even independents will go there
21:29 -!- Bejinhan [3c352726@wikipedia/Bejinhan] has joined #wikipedia-en
21:30 < Dcoetzee> If anything the Republicans seem to be alienating more of their base and driving them away over time.
21:30 < ChrisGualtieri> Dcoetzee:  You get any free time to work on it yet? The project. :D
21:31 < Dcoetzee> Not yet :-)
21:31 < ChrisGualtieri> Oh.. and I just realized I locked myself out of another toolserver tool with my edit count again >.> So I don't care anymore
21:31 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee republicans are trying to hang on to values that rest of the planet finds outdated
21:31 < ChrisGualtieri> Bring on the typos. Reedy is making a new dump
21:31 -!- MBisanz [~MBisanz@wikipedia/MBisanz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
21:31 < Tony_Sidaway> I like Boris, despite the politics. He does this amiable buffer so well he could be scripted by Wodehouse himself.
21:32 < Dcoetzee> Bad spellers of the word, untie!
21:32 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway To be fair he does not try to ban large sodas
21:32 < ChrisGualtieri> I think Typoscan with Regex will only get 170,000 hits this time around.
21:32 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee you spelt bald wrong
21:33 < Dcoetzee> [[Wikipedia:Be bald]]
21:33 -!- tonynoname2 [~tonynonam@pool-108-44-29-176.albyny.east.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
21:33 < ChrisGualtieri> My own calculations say that 3 Million articles require fixing with 1.5 million typos exist in articles
21:33 < Tony_Sidaway> Before his days as a politician, as a journalist Boris once had to apologise to the entire city of Liverpool. And he did!
21:33 < ChrisGualtieri> Basically everything in the India side of Wikipedia needs a mallet
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21:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway was he wearing pants when he did?
21:34 < Tony_Sidaway> ToAruShiroiNeko: yes, though possibly on his head.
21:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> heh
21:34 < ToAruShiroiNeko> thats ok
21:34 < Dcoetzee> ChrisGualtieri: In my experience articles by Indians usually need a lot more than spelling corrections. They generally need to be heavily edited for grammar, spelling, style, and... making sense.
21:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee btw I stumbled upon your WoW report recently
21:35 < Dcoetzee> That is old :-)
21:35 < ChrisGualtieri> Yes... I was hoping grammar would be a function... but I doubt even a machine could make sense of some of them
21:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> sure its old
21:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> but I also stumbled upono top 10 trolls of the web
21:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> which includes WoW
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21:35 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://www.thinkdigit.com/Internet/Top-10-Trolls-in-Internet-History_3261.html
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21:36 < The_Thing> Odor.
21:36 < Dcoetzee> ToAruShiroiNeko: I keep it up because I believe in the need to document the history of Wikipedia. I want to stand against the faction that believes it is better to forget and WP:DENY.
21:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-October/031780.html <-- simply wow
21:36 < The_Thing> Blocker.
21:36 < ToAruShiroiNeko> WP:DENY doesnt mean you should obscure facts
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21:37 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I agree that we shouldnt parade troll/vandal accounts where it is a counter for trolls
21:37 < The_Thing> Body.
21:37 < Dcoetzee> I mean yeah we shouldn't have a 10 Awesomest Trolls list or anything.
21:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> but the concept of WP:DENY that vandalism will cease if we hide our discussion of it is absurd
21:38 < The_Thing> Wash!
21:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee we dont
21:38 < ToAruShiroiNeko> the internet however has
21:38 < Dcoetzee> Yup :-P
21:38 < Dcoetzee> Just saying
21:39 -!- norbit [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Addihockey10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee btw
21:40 < ToAruShiroiNeko> pm
21:40 -!- quanticle is now known as quanticle|away
21:40 < Dcoetzee> Erasing the history of a troll is just an invitation for imitators to return 3 years down the road when everyone has forgotten about them and wreak havoc.
21:41 < Tony_Sidaway> That hasn't happened.
21:41 < Tony_Sidaway> Institutions have memories.
21:42 < Dcoetzee> It hasn't, but it could if the erasers had their way.
21:42 < Tony_Sidaway> We don't memorialize them but we do learn how to neutralise them.
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21:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway few people remember WoW
21:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> fewer people know about page move vandalism
21:45 < norbit> ToAruShiroiNeko: world of warcraft?
21:45 < ToAruShiroiNeko> norbit you are lucky my blade is dull
21:45 < Isarra> I wish I didn't know about it.
21:45 < Dcoetzee> norbit: You are proving our point
21:45 < norbit> Dcoetzee: Of course I know
21:46 < Isarra> Completely bloody pain to clean up.
21:46 < norbit> *SIGH*
21:46 < Isarra> Especially when you don't have any admins.
21:46 < Dcoetzee> Sorry :-P
21:46 < norbit> Isarra: Not if you have redirectoverwrite
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21:46 < norbit> or whatever it's called.
21:46 < Tony_Sidaway> The solution to page move vandalism was to expand the use of bots.
21:46 < Tony_Sidaway> Willy on Wheels would not be a problem on today's Wikipedia.
21:46 < Dcoetzee> Page move vandalism is easy to clean up with bots yeah.
21:46 < norbit> WoW popped had a flat.
21:46 < norbit> er,
21:47 < norbit> WoW had a flat.
21:47 < Isarra> norbit: move the pages onto each other.
21:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee the issue was how new users were able to move pages
21:47 < Dcoetzee> However, people should still be able to recognise page move vandalism and respond appropriately.
21:47 < Isarra> Then replace them with spam.
21:47 < ToAruShiroiNeko> also how people didnt have a limit on how many they can move
21:47 < Dcoetzee> Groups of sleeper accounts can still move an unlimited number of pages.
21:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> sure
21:48 < Isarra> Only reason I'm familiar with it is because our server admin had no idea what he was doing.
21:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> but that takes aditional effort
21:48 < Tony_Sidaway> The correct response to page move vandalism is to ignore it and wait for the bots to clear it up. You don't need instructions on how to deal with it, it just happens.
21:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> IMHO more effort for vandals is less work for us
21:48 -!- Mdann52 [~androirc@wikipedia/Mdann52] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway bots dont run on soul gems
21:48 < Dcoetzee> As far as I know there is no bot that reliably detects and reverts page move vandalism.
21:48 < ToAruShiroiNeko> I wouldnt panic over page move vandalism but I may point it out on ani
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21:49 < Dcoetzee> They usually have to be set up and run to address specific cases.
21:49 < ToAruShiroiNeko> ie specific regexes
21:49 < Tony_Sidaway> Dcoetzee: an outbreak is easily recognised, and genuine page moves are rare enough for the collateral damage to be acceptable.
21:50 < Dcoetzee> My point is anyway thta's just an example.
21:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Tony_Sidaway sure
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21:50 < Dcoetzee> Suppressing history is bad for many more reasons than just the direct damage it causes because history repeats.
21:50 < Dcoetzee> It also affects culture, and intergenerational interaction between Wikipedians.
21:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee also transparency
21:51 < Tony_Sidaway> Time for bed.
21:51 -!- Tony_Sidaway [~tony@wikipedia/Tony-Sidaway] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> we should document what was done for the purpose of not being evil
21:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> bed?
21:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> its time to get out of bed
21:51 < ToAruShiroiNeko> Dcoetzee I PM you hard
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22:10 < ChrisGualtieri> Well... the toolserver hates me
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22:12 < TeeTylerToe> hate it back?
22:13 < Frostee> eat it
22:14 < ChrisGualtieri> I wonder how much longer before I cannot see my own activities
22:16 -!- Shearonink [62a9f0a1@wikipedia/Shearonink] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:16 < ChrisGualtieri> Afd checker works at least
22:17 -!- ChrisGualtieri [47eae49b@wikipedia/ChrisGualtieri] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
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22:20 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [+o eir] by ChanServ
22:20 -!- mode/#wikipedia-en [-bo *!*@bas1-stjean93-2925321704.dsl.bell.ca eir] by eir
22:23  * aude curious if it's just me or wikitravel.org is down for everyone?
22:24 < aude> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ sadly no longer works
22:25 < norbit> aude: It works for me, the latter.
22:25 < norbit> downforeveryoneorjustme seems to be down for just you.
22:25 < norbit> too bad you couldn't check it
22:25 < norbit> LOL
22:25 < aude> ah, ok
22:25 -!- Sven_Manguard [~Perhaps@wikipedia/Sven-Manguard] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]]
22:26 < norbit> http://wikitravel.org
22:26 < norbit> {{worksformetoo}}
22:26 < aude> must be temporary glitch
22:26 < aude> thanks
22:27 < norbit> np
22:29 < Tony_Sidaway> Can Romney win the Presidency  without Florida?
22:35 < norbit> let's hope not.
22:36 < norbit> aude: use http://www.isup.me/
22:36 -!- IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:39 < aude> norbit: cool!
22:39 < aude> thanks
22:39 < norbit> np
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22:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/downforeveryoneorjustme.com
22:50 < ToAruShiroiNeko> :D
22:51 -!- euphoria is now known as ceradon-away
22:52 < LtNOWIS> One of my colleagues from New Jersey is really thrilled that Christie's speaking at the RNC
22:52 < LtNOWIS> by which I mean the Republican convention this year in Tampa
22:56  * Isarra hits jorm with a frying pan.
22:56 < jorm>   what for now?
22:56  * ToAruShiroiNeko burries Isarra under a pile of tribbles...
22:57 < Isarra> Learn to css, man.
22:57 < jorm> note that getting smacked on the head with a frying pan does nothing except get my attention.
22:57 < Isarra> It makes me feel ever so slightly better.
22:58 < Isarra> But seriously, why are the images used by the curation toolbar added in as imgs?
22:58 < jorm> are you saying that some css that i pulled out of my ass inside of 20 seconds doesn't necessarily work?
22:58 < jorm> css that i prefaced with "something like...." ?
22:58 < Isarra> No, I'm saying you didn't use css at all.
22:58 < jorm> oh.  you'll have to ask kaldari about that.
22:58 < Isarra> Oh.
22:59 < Isarra> Sorry about hitting you.
22:59 < Isarra> Where is he that I might hit him instead?
22:59 < jorm> maybe we should talk about the distinction between product, design, and implementation?
22:59 < jorm> i expect that he's asleep, but he's around fairly often.
22:59 < Isarra> Is he the implementer?
23:00 < jorm> he is the current lead developer, yes.
23:00 < jorm> ryan kaldari and benny situ.
23:00 < jorm> ryan does front end more than benny.
23:00 < Isarra> Ah.
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23:01 < Frostee> R.
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23:02 < Isarra> I just don't understand why this thing can only match one skin, especially since it takes all of five minutes to style such things, but...
23:03 < Isarra> Well, it really doesn't style.
23:03 < Isarra> Sorry, man. I need to stop giving you such a hard time for everything, especially things that aren't even your doing.
23:03 < Frostee> Oh, are we discussing why MediaWiki sucks???
23:03 -!- Ironholds [~Ironholds@wikipedia/Ironholds] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:04 < SigmaWP> We should discuss why PHP sucks
23:04 < Isarra> Man, it's MediaWiki.
23:04 < Isarra> We don't have to discuss why; it just does.
23:04 < Frostee> They both suck
23:04 < Frostee> ^
23:04 < Isarra> I hear perl really sucks.
23:04 < jorm> MediaWiki sucks.
23:04 < Isarra> Wikipedia makes mediawiki seem well-done by comparison.
23:04 < SigmaWP> jorm: How long would it take to convert WP to Python?
23:04 < TeeTylerToe> you guys are tough to please
23:04 -!- rschen7754 [~rschen775@wikipedia/rschen7754] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:05 < jorm> a very long time.
23:05 < SigmaWP> Hmph.
23:05 < jorm> it's not a doable thing, switching to a real language.
23:05 -!- rschen7754 [~rschen775@wikipedia/rschen7754] has joined #wikipedia-en
23:05 < jorm> and, realistically, we'd go to java.
23:05 < Isarra> Pffft.
23:05 < jorm> it's all the 3rd party stuff.
23:05 < SigmaWP> Oh, yeah, extensions
23:06 < Ironholds> yo, jorm
23:06 < jorm> sup?
23:06 < jorm> listen. give me five people who i hand pick, and we can rebuild everything that's required with wp *AND MORE* within 5 months.
23:06 < jorm> and have it scalable.
23:07 < jorm> i'll have to pay all of them 150k or so, mind you.  but it's doable.
23:07 < jorm> but we are then telling everyone who ever depended on us to fuck off.
23:07 < Ironholds> and also probably me
23:07 < Ironholds> because 5x150k is expensive and I am expendable
23:07 < jorm> and about half the wikis out there that run really crappy extensions (like, wikinews)
23:07  * aude love php ;)
23:08 < Isarra> Wikinews needs more love.
23:08 < jorm> 5x150k is not the moneys you think it is, oliver.
23:08 < Frostee> haters gonna hate
23:08 < Ironholds> I'm a cheap guy who costs...a tiny proportion of that
23:08 < Isarra> At least you're worth something.
23:09 < Isarra> The most I can hope for is that people might pay me to stay away.
23:09 < Ironholds> Isarra: people who pay for that are called people without taste
23:09 < Ironholds> ...or with too much money
23:09 < Ironholds> in which case they should pay for my pet projects instead
23:10 < Isarra> Well, mental institutions cost money, and hiring them to come out and get someone costs extra, so you know... I'm probably safe for now.
23:11 < Isarra> Wait, crap, what?
23:11  * Frostee pats Isarra
23:12 < Isarra> Frostee: I can kill you with my brain.
23:12 < IShadowed_> Probably.
23:12 < Frostee> How so?
23:13 < Isarra> Actually I'll just distract you while IShadowed_ steals your liver or something, but the effect is the same.
23:13 < IShadowed_> This is accurate.
23:13 < Frostee> I can survive temporaraly without a liver
23:14 < Frostee> in time to get to a hspital
23:14 < Frostee> just sayin'
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23:14 < IShadowed_> I'll make sure you /don't/ survive that long, baby.
23:15 < Frostee> do you know my exact location?
23:15 < Isarra> What's with all the weird arrows on the curation toolbar?
23:15 < Frostee> Or even my approximate location?
23:15 -!- k [~Logan@wikimedia/Logan] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
23:15 < IShadowed_> (~frostyisa@115-64-72-36.static.tpgi.com.au)
23:15  * SigmaWP wonders if someone can summarise everything after "and also probably me"
23:15 < IShadowed_> No cloak kind of helps, dear.
23:16 < Isarra> Frostee: I may not be a very good admin, but I still have connections.
23:16 < IShadowed_> Pfft
23:16 < Isarra> And we know exactly where you live.
23:16 < IShadowed_> non-admins have the best connections, because we don't do terribly controversial shit so we get to fraternize with everyone
23:16 < Frostee> Oh really?
23:16 < IShadowed_> Unless you're like me and you piss everyone off anyway
23:16 < IShadowed_> Then you're fucked.
23:17 < Isarra> It's a lot easier to keep track of everyone when the community has shrunken as much as it has.
23:17 < Isarra> IShadowed_: Uncyclopedia's admins have a complex network of spies. It's a poorly kept secret because we keep bunging up and telling people.
23:18 < Frostee> Like right now?
23:18 < Frostee> Uncyclopedia irc sucks these days
23:18 < Isarra> Why do you think I left?
23:18 < Frostee> It's mainly Mr-ex777 talking to himself
23:18 < Isarra> Most of uncyclopedia sucks these days.
23:19 < Frostee> and calling anybody he doesn't know Meepsheep
23:19 < Frostee> That was in the room topic at one point...
23:19 < Isarra> He's... strange.
23:19 < Frostee> thats true
23:19 < Isarra> What does it take to get something deleted around here?
23:20 < Frostee> *Obtain admin stutus
23:20 < Frostee> *Press delete
23:20 < Frostee> *Profit
23:20 < Isarra> *Get taken to ANI
23:20 < Frostee> *Ban users who take you there
23:20 < Frostee> *Profit
23:20 -!- legoktm [~legoktm@wikipedia/Legoktm] has quit [Quit: goodbye.]
23:20 < Isarra> *Get deopped by a passing steward
23:21 < Isarra> Whoops.
23:21 < Frostee> *Obtain their address
23:21 < Frostee> *Staby stab stab
23:21 < Frostee> *Steal password
23:21 < Frostee> *Profit
23:21 < Frostee> I have an answer for EVERYTHING
23:22 < Isarra> But seriously, I'm looking for something to mark for deletion. You should find me something.
23:22 < Isarra> This is important.
23:22 < Isarra> Chop chop.
23:22 < Frostee> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
23:22 < Ironholds> Isarra: [[Barack obama]]
23:22 < Frostee> There you go
23:22 < Ironholds> jorm: can I mosey on down on Thursday, btw?
23:22 < Frostee> You delete the main page on uncyc all the time
23:22 < Isarra> Ironholds: That page has an editnotice. Pages with edit notices tend to eat my edits.
23:22 < Frostee> Do it....
23:23 -!- SigmaWP [~coalball@Wikipedia/Lowercase-Sigma] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:23 < Ironholds> Isarra: Okay. World War II
23:23 < jorm> i already told you yes.
23:23 -!- SudoKing [~geek@wikihow/SudoKing] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
23:24 < Frostee> wait Wikipedia deletes stuff? o_O
23:24 < Frostee> I thought it just obsorbed everything created into 4000000+ articles
23:25 < Isarra> Fudge.
23:25 < Frostee> Oh damn you, now I want to eat fudge
23:25 < Isarra> I found a suitable candidate for deletion, but I have no idea what criteria it actually...
23:26 < Frostee> you need criteria???
23:26 < Frostee> what happened to the days of "This sucks"
23:26 < Ironholds> jorm: you expect me to remember random elevator conversations or whatnot when I've been drinkin'?
23:26 < Isarra> And why are these deletion reasons in no particular order?
23:26 < Isarra> Frostee: I can't even get away with that on uncyclopedia anymore.
23:27 < Frostee> Why not?
23:27 < Isarra> 'Added tags to the page using PageTriage' - now there's a specific edit summary.
23:27 < Frostee> I do it all the time when adding stuff to VFD
23:27 < Frostee> :D
23:27 < Isarra> Because everyone hates me?
23:28 < Frostee> I am a somebody, I don;t hate you.
23:28 < Isarra> Hmm.
23:28 < Isarra> I'll go test this.
23:28 < Frostee> Which thing?
23:28 < Frostee> The everybody hates you or the other thing?
23:29 < Ironholds> Isarra: known. we're fixing it.
23:29 < Isarra> Ironholds: Good.
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23:31 < Isarra> How do you tell how many revisions a page has?
23:31 < Frostee> Count them
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23:32 < Isarra> I don't even remember ?pedia's deletion reasons...
23:32 < Isarra> I feel so empty.
23:33 < Frostee> What is the page, I will count or you
23:33 < Frostee> ?pedia gets like 3 edits a day on average
23:33 < Frostee> Its sad, it like died
23:33 < Isarra> UN:QVFD
23:34 < Isarra> Go count it.
23:34 < Frostee> ok
23:35 < Frostee> I'm on it
23:35 < Frostee> :D
23:35 < Frostee> Gimme a couple of decades
23:35 < Isarra> Oh no I just added ani to my watchlist...
23:35 < Isarra> Now I must read it.
23:35 < Isarra> Yes.
23:35 < Isarra> o___o
23:36 < Frostee> I have a way of doing this!
23:37 < Frostee> 2,000 since this April o_O
23:37 < Isarra> Apparently ANI has over 5000 watchers.
23:37 < Frostee> What is ANI
23:37 < Isarra> Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
23:38 < Isarra> enwp's approach to a lynch mob.
23:38 < Frostee> Sounds lame and procedural
23:38 < Isarra> It's actually quite entiretaining.
23:38 < Frostee> I am at 4,000 so far btw
23:38 < Frostee> And counting...
23:38 < Mdann52> A place where people complain about another editor and get blocked themselves
23:38 < Isarra> AN is generally more procedural due to the more general scope.
23:38 < TeeTylerToe> wikipedia doesn't have a very good procedure for pretty much any complaint so I assume pretty much everything goes there
23:38 -!- IShadowed_ is now known as IShadowed
23:38 < Isarra> ANI is just anything that OMG THIS HAPPENED SAVE US!
23:39 < Mdann52> And the lack if trolls at An
23:39 < Frostee> Awww I'm seeing all these users in the history that I miss
23:39 < Frostee> Lollipop, JackOfSpades, <s>Dexter111344</s>
23:39 < Isarra> Do you miss me?
23:40 < Frostee> Well, I can still talk to you. But they don't ever appear anyway
23:40 < Isarra> Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents has been viewed 69856 times in the last 30 days.
23:41 < Mdann52> Andhalf of those were probably sinebot
23:41 < Isarra> Through the API?
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23:48 < Frostee> Isarra: I'm up to 22,000
23:48 < Frostee> *24,000
23:49 < Isarra> Please continue.
23:49 < Frostee> Does this have a purpose?
23:49 < Isarra> I was considering deleting it.
23:49 < Frostee> Or is it for your own cruel amusement?
23:49 < Isarra> So... yes.
23:49 < Frostee> Oic
23:49 < Frostee> Loading 2,000 revisions at a time takes time
23:49 < Isarra> It was Zombiebaron's idea.
23:50 < Frostee> I'm up to late 2008
23:50 < Frostee> FUN FACT: 50 entires added daily
23:50 < Isarra> You know how many new sysops enwp got in 2008?
23:51 < Frostee> how many?
23:51 < Isarra> No idea, but a lot more than in 2011.
23:51 < Mdann52> About 200 from memory..
23:52 < Frostee> Man the users of 08 were really unoriginal in the junk they created
23:53 < Isarra> The page I marked for deletion here was more amusing than a lot of the crap that survives on uncyclopedia these days.
23:53 < Isarra> Apparently it was about an 'eligible subject', whatever that means.
23:53 < Frostee> I'm up to 30,000
23:53 < Isarra> What does that mean, anyway?
23:53 < Frostee> >_<
23:54 < Isarra> Eligible for what, CSD?
23:54 < Isarra> Isn't most any subject potentially fitting?
23:54 < TeeTylerToe> maybe eligible for knighthood
23:54 < Isarra> It was deleted, though.
23:54 < yuvipanda> wooo, final major feature for Signpost app landed :)
23:55 < Isarra> Or do knights make bad articles?
23:55  * yuvipanda goes to fix more bugs
23:55  * Mdann52 looks sadly at his watchlist
23:55 < Frostee> 34,000
23:56 < Mdann52> ?
23:56 < Isarra> How far are you?
23:56 < Isarra> He's counting the number of revisions of a page on uncyclopedia.
23:56 < Frostee> 34,000 revisions
23:56 < Frostee> Early 2008
23:56 < Isarra> I mean timewise.
23:56 < Mdann52> Ok
23:56 < Isarra> Ah.
23:56 < Frostee> March 10 2008 to be exact
23:57 < Isarra> Blimey.
23:58 < Frostee> Fun fact: There was more revisions in Summer of 2008, than all of 2011 and 2012 put together
23:58 < Mdann52> Ok....
23:58  * Mdann52 realises how crazy Frostee really is
23:58 < Frostee> DO NOT QUESTION THIS
23:58 < Frostee> SHE MADE ME DO IT
23:58 < Isarra> So how long do you think uncyclopedia has left?
23:59 < Isarra> Hi.
23:59 < Frostee> I don't think it will die in the near future
23:59 < Isarra> We could change that.
--- Log closed Wed Aug 15 00:00:06 2012